Hello All,
To those still following my sitch, W is actively looking for another job and I believe contact at work is very limited since they work in different parts of the plant.

W is very forthcoming on everything, We are transparent in every aspect of our M - Banks, email accounts, cell phones etc. - We have lunch together 3 - 5 times a week, I have been introduced to coworkers, She allows me to show up unannounced just to check on things especially if she has to work late.

Personally we are doing everything by the book, POJA, Radical Honesty, Spending at the very least 15 hrs/wk alone and more time just the 4 of us - S10 and D12 are thriving and enjoying the "new family" outlook.

We are making plans for the near and distant future, I am completely moved back into the marital residence.

W is constantly saying how great it is for me to be there, ILY's many times a day, SF is better than ever.

Even if we have disagreements we realize when to step back and apply Dr. Harley's principals.

If you would have asked me even 2 months ago if I could envision things being this good I would have scoffed but this is more than I could ask for.

Our court date was adjourned but W contacted her atty yesterday to say that she wants this terminated ASAP and that D will never be an option, With all we have both learned and are still learning I feel confident that we will be together for as long as we are both on this earth.

I again want to say Thank You to everyone who stuck by me and for those who helped but got frustrated when I didn't always listen - If anyone who is new to this reads my posts please believe all you are told from these wonderful people who have been through much themselves and give back to those who truly need it.

I am forever grateful to everyone here, Especially jmwc95 (Jim) and Shattered Dreams for their support.

dg,

I feel nothing but joy for you! Once you finally bought into the MB program, and began executing it with some enthusiasm, things began to change and improve for you. You are a walking testimony for MB.

Keep the new dynamics in place and your marriage will thrive. I would encourage you, however, to put a time limit in place for how much longer you can stand her to work at the same location as the OM. That has disaster written all over it, the longer she works there.

Have a POJA discussion over her employment there, and set some boundaries, for the sake of both of you.

dg, you are my HERO for the day!

Best wishes,
SD

SD - Thank you, and actually we have had the discussion concerning how long she works there and b/c of our money situation.

As long as things are as stable as they seem and I feel safe she can continue to work there, She has offered to quit her job tomorrow if it would make me feel good but there are some monteary things that need to be straightened up and she really has done a great job of making me feel safe, loved and secure and I return as well as I recieve.

Just again tonight when she came home as I had to leave early to get our cable and internet hooked up, She mentioned how great it was to be together all of us again.

I was unpacking and cleaning things and my W mentioned to take it easy, I said I wanted things unpacked so that it would look like a normal house and her reply was that it was a home b/c I was here and we are all together.

I smile a lot these days and keep everything in perspective and as soon as we catch up or open enrollment for benefits happen for me a my place of employment we will get past this last hurdle but as I mentioned she has done nothing but make me feel safe and secure.

It's nice to finally reap the rewards of all that hard work, isn't it? There will be bumps in the road, but it sounds like your recovery is going along well. Congrats to you for sticking in there.

Jim , Yes it has been nice to have my W and M back, The kids are ecstatic and hger family has been great at accepting us.

My family has been quite vocal that they do not want my W at family functions for now and not just b/c of the A but they came out with all sorts of things they held against her for years.

It doesn't bother me b/c I do not live my life for them and my kids don't know they harbor such feelings, Especailly what this weekend has brought to our family.

My W came home sick Thurs. afternoon and we thought it was the flu, Sat. afternoon we went to after care appt and they transported her to the hospital 2 blocks away by ambulance.

After many hours in the ER my W was diagnosed with a very bad case of double pneumonia, How could I have missed how sick she was - She can be stubborn but...............

I spoke with the Dr. this morning 9/30 and he said if she was a young child or older adult he would have her in ICU and although she is improving he put a scare into me.

I spoke with my MIL @ church this morning and how for lack of a better term ironic it was that we get back together and have to face something like this, Maybe it's the Lords way to strengthen our bonds and our family!

I am dealing with my feelings towards my family, As I told my mother and she couldn't even wish my W well even for her grandkids and I am trying hard to maintain a good balance in all of my relationships right now.

Thanks Again for all your thoughts and wishes and hope everyone is doing well!

It is really nice to have this place and I felt I could start answering others and tried on one new sitch but it seems the person didn't like what everyone was saying and has not been back, All I really added was that I did things the hard way and if he even read part of my sitches that he could see that so many people here knew much more than I and if it wasn't for all of you and the Lord that I could have lost so much and instead I gained knowledge and feelings that are worth more than anything in this world.

After being back with my W for close to a month I so miss having her next to me when I am sleeping or seeing her smile without wincing.

Sorry for running with several thoughts just needed to write!

I don't know where to begin, I stopped writing and kept lurking occasionally while trying to piece back our lives.

After a great few months in mid Dec my taker came out because of demands from W's job and I felt neglected.

I tried to talk to her about my feelings only to feel they were dismissed and my taker came back out and I stupidly mentioned the D word, She accepted my apology and thought we were moving forward, We had a disagreement 2 sundays ago because she went dancing with a neighbor and I felt threatened but I don't believe I should have.

My W has never really had many friends and she mentioned in the beginning that she wanted to do things and I agreed only she didn't do things right away and we were thriving.

I apologized for saying Yes and then going back on things and also apologized for all my LB's that day.

W accepted my apology that night but the next day things were strained and we had a discussion, During our discussion she confided that when she said she was intimate with the co worker last summer that she only admitted it because she thought that is what I wanted to hear.

I was devastated because of everything I wanted from her when we got back together was honesty, I moved through the first few months asking questions about their "friendship" and she was open to talking and now I had to learn that she took it all back.

The last week and a half or soI have been trying to reach her but as I did early on the first time I can only focus on my pain and our relationship and talk and talk.

Last night was devastating as I was trying to gauge her and she wanted to just be left alone saying she was mad, But everything was telling me that it was just like last year.

After heart wrenching discussions she said she thinks we should give up.

I never followed through with asking her to leave her job when we got back together because I knew how much it meant to her that she was successful eventhough she offered, In Dec I issued an ultimatum that I didn't want to back up and now I feel like I did all over again.

I am posting on GQ because of the traffic but also because when she told me that she lied, She also said she felt she should apologize to hime - Red flags went off.

I also do have to admit that while I was on my own and after she filed for D even though all I read I did get involved with someone but told her and committed myself to our M and our family.

Things were going so good we thought we could work out things on our own and did not seek outside help and I now feel worse than I ever have.

Please Help!

A session with Steve or Jennifer is going to be a whole lot less than a divorce.

When one person does all the heavy lifting in a recovery, and it isn't the wayward, there is no recovery long term.

Get a joint session with the Harleys agreed to by her as a last ditch effort to save the marriage.

Thanks for your reply, I know we need to but I am wondering how committed to this my W would be.

How can someone show so much love and now be consumed with anger?

I think in some ways there has been a lot of passive/aggressiveness on both sides even though I am the one posting I know where I need to share the blame.

My W says that when I used to threaten D when we would argue it shook her up and I didn't process my raw emotions during some stressful times and can't get over the guilt of letting my W and myself down.

Just in a really bad place now, I really have no support group on my side and I know her family has accepted and made me feel welcome if I talk to them her anger will turn to hate.

She is angry and aloof right now, Her ring is still on and she has said she loves me, no affection which is probably my biggest EN - I asked if she was trying to punish me and her reply was I am protecting myself from getting screwed over.

It just seems to have fallen so far so fast.

I feel guilty with only lurking and thinking we were ok and I should have kept up with moving over to the recovery board.

I feel so alone in this world, My family had said that we would end up like this and have issues with my W's personality and I feel so alone.

I couldn't go to work today and can't stop obsessing again.

dg,

I am so sorry to find you in such a state. My humble and honest opinion is this (and I apologize if this hurts your feelings)

You have failed to stop the Love Busters. You became comfortable in "recovery", and went to cruise control. We talked about this in earlier threads.

I feel this because I was guilty of it myself. Remember our conversations about bait and switch. Change long enough to lure the WW back, then fall back into the "same old, same old" patterns?

It takes immense energy and focus to keep those necessary changes in place.

Love Buster's NEVER build a marriage, they only tear it apart. Your home, and your presence must be the safest environment on earth for your W.

I wasn't clear on whether your W and the OM still work together, or not, but if your marriage is EVER going to have a chance at successful and sustainable recovery, NC has to be in place for LIFE.

You know this...what gives?

SD - Thanks for checking in I appreciate it and all you say makes sense and I have thought long and hard about the bait and switch aspect.

The LB's came out when I became frustrated with things that I had no control over and realize this but still I should have recognized it for what it was, I had approached my W in mid Dec to say that I was having a tough time with things and that I may need more reassurance or understanding because of my thoughts.

I had asked her to understand that I was spending too much time thinking about all we went through last year and the fact that Christmas was going to be stressful due to family circumstances (my side) and I was concerned that she would feel hurt and angry and I wanted her to know that.

Also, Our lives were intertwined so much so early on that I felt I was not asking for anything more than she had been giving but the workload was stressful for her and I wasn't feeling like a priority (maybe too much thought by me).

When we did argue one night well into the early morning hours, I issued an ultimatum about leaving and she became adamant that she was not going to choose between her job and our marriage, That I was trying to control things.

I asked that she offered in the beginning to do this for us and I allowed things to stay status quo because I felt safe,
She mentioned that she had changed jobs and it was a real opportunity to grow. I backed down because anytime I had the feeling to check things everything checked out so I thought it was just me.

She has mentioned now that she let that night slip and put it out of her mind.

Things were ok through the first part of Jan. although we had some discussions and probably both let our takers out and LB's - When the serve and volley goes on it got hard to keep things in perspective.

I went to watch football with friends on a Sat night and she called to say a married neighbor wanted to go dancing and I was initially ok with it, I left early so I could be at the house for our kids and when I called to say that there were 4 kids instead of 2 in the house she had not left yet and it was close to 10:00pm.

When I woke up I was a little upset that she did not get home until around 2:30am,Everything snowballed that day until late evening and she mentioned that I owed her an apology - I did not issue a blanket apology but rather a sum and substance of all things that I was responsible for.

I thought she accepted the apology but started noticing a distance and my internal alarm went off.

That Monday night I wanted to talk to get everything out, She started mentioning of my indiscretion and that was bothering her, And that we couldnt keep having late night discussions. I tried to be understanding and promised to keep things in check and I thought that her sharing with me about her concern was good.

Later in the discussion she came out with, What I told you happened in June with OM was not true she only said she was intimate with him because she thought that is what I wanted to hear - I did not get mad but tried to be supportive and saying I wanted to forgive that because of how things were we needed to move past all of this.

I will admit that it stung, I went downstairs while she took a shower and pondered, She came down before bed and said good night, I didn't stay down for more than 10 mins and went to bed.

The rest of the week was strained and she mentioned that her distance was only because she was mad at herself and that I should understand, I mentioned that I cared about her and us and to know that I forgave her she still was not responsive.

The distance was the way our phone conversations went kind of business like, When I tried to be affectionate with a hug or a kiss the hugs were like I was hugging a broom, the kisses were not soft and I started to feel hurt.

I tried calmly trying to converse, sent short emails at work, got a nice card and some flowers but it didn't seem to do any good - I wasn't looking for everything to go away overnight just some small positives.

A new girl in her old dept quit, she was juggling her workload and in improvement meetings for her old dept and I tried to understand.

By Friday I was getting to the point od frustration but tried to step back when she got in, I swore I wasn't going to talk about our relationship and we sat and talked - She has been wanting a new car so we looked online and around 9:30pm drove by the lot and got some takeout.

She had to work Sat, I thought we were making progress slowly but she was still wtihholding affection and closeness so I was kind of quiet.

She was reading a report on a vehicle that we looked at and called me to come read with her, She said Honey come here and take a look at this, We read and discussed things I thought well we are moving forward.

I took a nap and when I woke she said everything was ok, She was upset that she wanted to go look at it but because I was napping we or she did not.

I did not think that was the whole thing so I engaged her in conversation, She mentioned that while she was on the pc (we got a new one) that she going through some things and came across an email I wrote and sent to myself from work about how our week was not right and took offense to some things - I said that I did not give or send it to her because I thought I would give it time for things to come around.

We talked until late in the evening and she slept on the couch because of a headache, I thought again we made progress but she was still quite distant.

We were starting a bowling league for the 4 of us that night and I hoped that it would bring us together, She mentioned she wanted to drive to her parents to look for a bowling ball and that she would be gone an hr - More like 2 hrs but I tried to be calm when she came in b/c I know she has not seen them in a week or more.

I started again asking about the distance and the way I felt and she became angry that I was questioning things and it turned a little heated, It was all about how I perceived that she was only talking about things and feeling like it was all about her independence and I felt threatened when I said I can't live like this and said we should D.

Bad move I know, As soon as it came out I ran after her and apologized - I didn't want the D I wanted the pain I was feeling to go away.

So many conversation later we are still here, I am in a major funk, She said on Tues night that she wished I would just shut up and leave her be to work through things.

I had started to wonder whether she was giving up and isolating herself from our M - She has said that an R should not have to be this hard, I agreed but also tried mentioning that we had a lot to overcome even before all of the recent things.

When I pushed her to talk she said maybe we should see a mediator and I felt so poorly. Begged etc and I know from the past that I shouldn't but if I let her stew or give in completely that I felt no matter what I did wasn't going to help and I chose what I felt I was comfortable with.

She will still say ILY sometimes or when I say it she says "I know", Ring is still on swore on her granfathers grave she wasnt seeking a D or anything but the indifference I feel is so strong.

dg, just a couple of observations...

It doesn't appear you two are anywhere near spending Harley's recommended 15 hours a week together. I read about several occasions where you were each "doing your own thing". You should put the 15 hours a week way up on your priority list.

Secondly, you should really consider doing some phone counseling with the Harleys. You were making good progress, and now you are each falling back into some old patterns.

Third, if you believe your W has been truthful with you, there comes a time when you have to let go of some things that have been done or said. I don't know if it's YOUR time to do that, but you must work this out, with yourself.

You two were doing so well for a while. I hate it that you are back struggling again. Take your own words/advice and work on controlling only what is within your power to control...YOU!

SD - I did mention that in our conversations recently and laid out where I felt I could do better, Her response was "you can go out whenever you like" which to me said I am not interested in spending time right now or willing to.

I have suggested counseling but we both had a bad experience with an IC last year, I mentioned it again last night of calling the Harleys - I tried to put a time limit on our talk so that she could unwind.

As far as the truthful maybe that is a block for me right now, I know I was feeling safe and that things were as she said but still a little scared by the conversation where she mentioned that she only said it b/c that she thought I wanted to hear it.

Also shortly after she mentioned that she should apologize although I did say that I didn't think it was right, Even if they only talked I still belive that he was not a friend of the M.

SD - When you said you knew first hand that you fell into a bait and switch how did your W react?

I just can't help but wonder whether she is holding out to get the ducks on a row, disappointed, angry, disillusioned.

Again I felt somewhat at ease early on when she came home last night but still wonder why we can't move forward.

I have tried to say where I went wrong, I hate that I pointed out to her what she was/is doing is affecting my stability.

I mean - I may have used the bait and switch although I know it was not premeditated more a personality trait that I did work hard to keep at bay, But the fact that she assured me she would be honest with me and that in a sense every time I needed to ask about the "friendship" she gave details so there were times of dishonesty every time I asked.

I do Love her with all my heart, I do want this to succeed and stabilize but I don't know how much I can take with the lack of interest in refocusing and trying to move forward.

I also have a hesitancy to start cold calling MC's b/c of what I have read that not all MC's are pro M and more often than not people end up D'ed

Pretty much exactly as your W is reacting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Call a few counselors, and simply ask them if they are familiar with Dr. Harley's work, and if they use any of his principals in their sessions. If not, move on... if so, make an appointment.

I could never get my W to do counseling, so if you can accomplish this, it will be good for you.

You need to be "the man of the house" in gently suggesting more time together with your W. Instead of football with the boys, take your W to dinner. If she wants to look for cars, go look for cars, but include a coffee shop or cafe in the mix.

In my own experience, the further we move from spending the time together, the more we tend to lead independent lives, and our relationship cools.

And just like Plan A, you cannot fill all your time together with R talks. It simply pushes a WW or a FWW away. They have to feel safe in your presence.

SD - Ive read your responses and have spent a great deal of time here again reading many peoples stories and have tried to use the things I have learned to understand things.

You know I did feel safe, I was going back to where I knew I could trust, No warning signs or anything.

Then instead of looking at things from a different viewpoint I started to care about how I was feeling and instead of realizing that my W may have needed me to be more understanding.

I saw that she was upset about the ways I lives went through last year, She did offer to leave the comapny, she changed jobs so that she was hourly instead of salary and that it was atep up and a good boost for her.

With Christmas and learning the new job along with being pulled back to her old duties and the fact that she just got over double pneumonia I am wondering whether I could have been the one offering emotional support rather than seeking it.

Our kids are another story and I say that because we both work slightly different hours and sometimes they dont get to sleep until after 10:00pm it is hard to get the time we need and my W needs her sleep and the arguments or discussions take place when she needs to get her rest.

I should have and will try to refocus to where I was, I was reading earlier somewhere on how we cannot make another person happy and that is something my W has shared with me that she feels I do at times place an emphasis but it was also said that we can make each other unhappy and that we should try to do the little things as well as spending time .

Well you get the idea I cannot remember it all right now but do have it in my favorite threads, I appreciate your insight it has helped, Still scared and full of anxiety but feeling better.

I do wish that a W, WW or FWW could possibly give me some insight but I understand that I haven't been on in awhile.

Thanks All

Marriage rule #1 - Put your spouse first, yourself second.

dg,

Recovery is a two year process. You've just got to keep the ship sailing the right direction. I agree that you need to drop the LBs, spend 15 hours meeting ENs, and get to some MC. You are only 1/4 of the way through recovery. Keep up the hard work.

I want to point out that my marriage has not recovered yet either. I'm just about one year into recovery, but the lack of SF in our marriage is still frustrating.

Thank You both for looking in on me, I started thinking and started realizing that my W's changes came about when I started feeling comfortable which in turn led us to where we are.

Now I probably have some basis for things but in no way should I have let things get down this road.

As the day went on yesterday, I started seeing things that I could really own and the thoughts were pouring in and I had this whole thing I wanted to say when she got in, Although I did not start when she came in, I let her get in and comfortable say Hi to the dog and the kids, asked about her day.

When I got in I got back to my normal routine started some laundry, cleared snow and generally picked up the house since the last week or so things have been sliding and as time went on I became an emotional wreck, Which I learned before that I should have not shown that side of me when conflict or withdrawal is going on b/c it can be so unbecoming.

Anyway I started off by saying that in some way and I don't know where it was but maybe a little thing and when I was allowed to get away eith it, Maybe it lulled me back into thinking I was ok, I should have remembered everything I learned but old instincts and habits are a downfall.

I felt she listened and actively engaged but still feel an emotional disconnectedness.

Yesterday morning she didn't call like she usually does and said something happened to her cell phone, Hard to believe?


I emailed her at work @ 9:00am and said I missed your call hope everything is ok and hope your day goes well.

Nothing mushy just Love You at the end, I didn't get anything back until 3:52pm - I know she has been busy.........

Anyway last night after getting everything straightened around and starting dinner W came in, After getting settled
and talking of her day - I mentioned what I had come to learn and that I truly was unaware how my actions had caused me to think something was wrong with her recently and that where I had no right to say, do or expect certain things.

I went out to get some pop for dinner and when I got back asked if she could give me a haircut, She did and all I asked her was "Have you given up" she replied just confused.

I didn't press anymore and we had dinner and watched a little tv in the kitchen, At 9:00pm I went to the bedroom and started watching the debate, About 9:45 she came in to get her things for a shower and came to bed around 10:00.

We talked a little about the politics and things going on, I wasn't going to push any more talks and she fell asleep.

Woke up late this morning, Rushed around and when I got out of the shower she was up, I said I overslept and rushed around before I said my goodbyes and she replied "Have a great one" although as I mentioned I still feel a disconnectedness.

Was beginning to think she wouldn't call this A.M. but she did although very plain conversation as has been the MO recently, At the end she said she had to run and I may have waited too long but I said ILY and nothing.

I have this fear that she may be again planning or has called back her attorney, This time she may not let on b/c of all we went through last year. Her ring is on, she is sleeping in the bed but something doesn't seem right.


Do I take her at her word as far as being confused or do I let these feelings keep my guard up?

I am trying to maintain the level I was at yesterday when I started realizing things and not that I wanted her to jump and be as things were but I expected a little more than I saw.

By not just the disconnectedness but also now thinking about it, It was a week ago last Monday when she recanted everything about her "friendship" - Just wondering if she may be trying to cover things in case she has initiated anything or am I being too wrapped up.

Everything is totally different that it was a month ago, SF was great, ILY's flowed freely etc.

Now I am in a constant state of heightened fear, Last Sat or Sun when I asked about a MC she said maybe then said Yes but since then we haven't discussed it and I have to admit I was in a pretty sorry state the last few day's and it has been eating at me if my appearance, depression and melancoly appearance had been less than desirable.

Although if anything has come about I have to let myself believe it has been within the last few days, Or my radar could be so screwed up I cannot even trust my feelings.

I also wonder whether or not my owning things last night and seeming more upbeat than I have in over a week has given her a justification to further her distance.

One day of good behavior will not make a difference.

One month of good behavior will!

Baby steps, dg. There is no "easy button".