Imterrified,

BR is right on target that WW is NOT your support group.

One thing you need to get straight for yourself is what you are REALLY dealing with here.

You wrote



Ok, read that AGAIN.

Now read this that you wrote



Do you see it? How can she be doing BOTH of these things at the same time?

She Can't.

She CAN'T be as my WH said "Exploring his feelings for x"
at the same time REALLY working on your M.

Now, that is not to say that you are doomed or destined to lose her. The principles of MB are valid and you can save your M.

I just want to point out that it is important for you to really understand how CRAZY the WS mind is when the A is still active.

Until the OM is GONE, completely, and she has written him a letter of NC, etc, her SAYING she wants to work on the M means nothing.

Pep's idea of just showing up is GREAT! You can and should PLan A!!

I KNOW how hard it is just to form the thoughts and actions to do simple things like make a pot of coffee is in the morning right now.

I KNOW your pain, your sleepless nights.

You can do thia, but you have to pull yourself together and formulate a solid plan.

FIRST EXPOSE!!! Do It! Do It! Do It!

For me, THAT was the one thing that helped me turn the corner from being helpless and out of control, to getting my Plan together and feeling a bit like a real human being again! Now, I even feel like a Goddess sometimes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there, keep posting! God Bless!

Today, I awoke and felt like a fog had lifted from my spirit. I went to church for the first time in months(You never realize how important faith is till you need it.), and was able to talk and pray with some friends. I have really taken to heart what you guys have been saying about how she can't be my support right now, which is a very hard thing. She has always been there for me and has always been the first person I turn to in times of trouble.

Exposure has begun as I spoke to her brother last night. Everyone has been so shocked, because this is so unlike her. I plan on contacting her parents later today or tomorrow morning.

I also have been working on my own support system. I had not told my parents what has happened, because I didn't want to shame my wife. I see now that I can't do this without their support and have to tell them tonight.

Thank you everyone for your continued support and advice. I will update you when the exposures are done and let you know the results. I am not looking forward to the flood of anger that she will have for me, but I will meet it with calm, reassurance, and respect.

Good for you, imterrified!! You took a very important first step to standing for your marriage!!! And that first step is a scary one to take, isn't it?
On a practical side, here are some things you can expect. If they do occur, do not take them to heart or feel bad...just tell yourself that it is going "according to plan" :

Your WW is going to be FURIOUS.
She is going to try every trick in the book to get you to stop exposing.
She will most likely say something like, "HOW COULD YOU HUMILIATE ME LIKE THAT?" -and-
"I CAN NEVER TRUST YOU AGAIN" -and-
"THAT'S IT! NOW I WILL NEVER LOVE YOU AGAIN AND WE ARE THROUGH!' -and-
"THAT WAS PRIVATE--JUST BETWEEN YOU AND I!"

imterrified, if you hear those things (and you will) just remember...it's going according to plan. Also those are very good examples of what we call WS Babble. That's when they talk and what comes out of their mouth makes NO SENSE. Just to help counter balance the WS Babble, let's go over what she said:

"HOW COULD YOU HUMILIATE ME LIKE THAT?" In real life (IRL), her behavior and her choices are what have embarrassed her. It's just that prior to today, her bad choices were hidden from plain view and now you have revealed what she wanted to keep secret.

"I CAN NEVER TRUST YOU AGAIN" She is the one who has acted in an untrustworthy manner. IRL, you have been honest from the beginning and by exposing you were being consistent. You are not keeping things hidden; you are not being dishonest; and you are being faithful and trustworthy.

"THAT'S IT! NOW I WILL NEVER LOVE YOU AGAIN AND WE ARE THROUGH!' IRL, she's just mad that her secret is now public, so she is applying the biggest pressure she can think of to make you stop and back off and let her continue her A. As I said, she will try every trick in the book that she can think of to continue her A.

"THAT WAS PRIVATE--JUST BETWEEN YOU AND I!" There is a difference between privacy and secrecy. Privacy is when you go to the bathroom and close the door...or get dressed behind closed doors so your children don't see you nude; however, the full and true YOU is revealed to your life partner and you are transparent. You let them see the real you--warts and all! SECRECY is when you have something about you or something going on in your life that you want to keep hidden. Secrecy is when thhe full and true YOU is withheld from your life partner and you HIDE what you are really thinking or feeling. You do not let them see the real you--it is a SECRET. She's mad because you revealed her SECRET.

* * * * * *

Part two of this post is some ideas for effective exposure:

Her parents--tell them you love their daughter and would appreciate their help encouraging her to do what is right to return to her marriage.
Her siblings--ditto "her parents"
Your parents--tell them you love WW but that you are going to need emotional support getting through this, and that you don't want them to think badly of her because anyone could weaken and have this happen. You just want them to help support and encourage YOU.
Your siblings--ditto "your parent"
Her employer--you need to inform them that someone in their employment has been having "unwanted sexual contact" with someone while they are traveling and possibly they are using company resources (laptop, cell phone, travel expenses, etc.) to facilitate the "unwanted sexual contact". This will give them the alert that they may be vulnerable to sexual harrassment, and THEY will put pressure on her to end the A or they may have to protect themselves legally. If you expose to HR via reporting potential sexual harrassment, they are required by law to investigate.
His employer--ditto "her employer". You report to his and her direct boss, THEIR direct boss, and HR--because sometimes a boss knows about it and keeps it under wraps or tries to "keep it in their department."
Your employer--inform your employer so that s/he knows that you may need time off, or so that they can understand why your performance may nosedive a bit. Usually, if you let an employer know and you've been a good employee, they will try to help you get through this AND keep your job.
Your pastor--if you and WW have a spiritual advisor (pastor, minister, priest, rabbi...someone!) tell them you love WW and would appreciate their help encouraging her to do what is right to return to her marriage.
Close, pro-marriage friends--ditto "your pastor"

This would be a THOROUGH and COMPLETE exposure. Not all these people will cooperate with you and encourage WW to return to the marriage (for example, some of her siblings may say they don't want to get into the middle of it or they want her to be happy), but don't be discouraged. Those who will help...will help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Those who won't...won't. But the more truth you reveal, the more pressure will be put on the A to stop it.

Keep writing!! We're here for ya. Now...batten down the hatches cuz the storm she's a comin'!!!

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Ter,
You are getting great information and support from CJ and everyone else. I am relieved that you have started the exposure. You really need to continue the exposure as much as you can as quickly as you can--so it is all done hopefully within the day. Then, as others have been advised, sit back with a nice tall drink of ice tea--put a little umbrella in it if you have one. What is your favorite tea? Mint?
Lake

CJ has given you stellar information

please

take it to heart

Exposure feels like a disaster! She was livid and felt I was making all the decisions for her. She did say a lot of the things that CJ said she would, and I responded in the recommended ways. But I feel like I pushed her away. She said the last few days had been great for us. She was even not wanting to talk to the OM as much, but now she does! I also told her I don't know how we can work on our relationship until there is NC. I really don't think that was the right thing to say. She was also very angry that I had spoken to the couple at church and feels like she can never go back. Also, she was angry that I spoke with her brother, and that I keep referring to what is going on as an affair.

On that note, her brother, who I respect and is my friend, did not think the exposure was a good idea. He said he thinks I should apologize to her for telling him and the people at church. He did say though that he is glad I told him, but should have waited for her to call him. He also told me a story, which I knew a bit about already, of a guy in high school that was terrible for her. But the more he and her parents pressed her the more she was pushed towards him. He said she was a smart girl and just had to figure it out on her own.

There was also another issue brought up that when she asked me to increase the cell minutes; I refused. I know she gets free minutes to talk to me, so the only reason she would want them was to talk more to the OM. When she asked me about the minutes I said, "How can I enable you to talk to the OM more. If you want to increase them, you have access to the site and can do it yourself." I said this calmly and not in a vengeful manner. She then hung up on me. My brother in law thinks I should apologize for this and be more accommodating.

I personally don't think I was wrong on most of what I did, but I am also beginning to doubt that the exposure tactic is what is needed in this case.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

imterrified,

Remember what I told you when I wrote...that she was going to react XYZ and say ABC?? And she did, huh? That's because I have been here on this site for EIGHT YEARS and I have literally seen hundreds of affairs--maybe a thousand. I know for a fact, as sure as I am writing here today that what you did was the right thing AND the surest and quickest way to END THE AFFAIR.

Apologizing and being accommodating with enable the affair to continue. So, it's up to you. Would you rather have your WW (and maybe her brother) be angry at you now for doing what is truly in their best interests and saves yourr marriage even though it makes them angry and hurts them a little...or would you rather apologize and be accommodating, have the affair linger on for years and have to deal with a fogged in WS for YEARS, with a high likelihood of the marriage ending? Which do you pick?

I know it feels WRONG, and I know it feels like "How can she possibly love me if I pushed her away?" but what happens is just like a child that has a punishment for being naughty. The child gets mad, doesn't it? The child says, "I HATE YOU!" and stomps away. But a GOOD parent will still punish the child in order to teach it right from wrong and bring it up properly. The parent risks the child being TEMPORARILY angry for the greater good of raising a good adult! Same here. She will in fact be temporarily angry, but once the A is busted up and NC is in place, she will begin to come out of the fog and see that you did it for the greater good of the M..and for her!

So stay the course, my friend. I know all your "spidey senses" say it feels wrong, but I give you my solemn promise this is the right thing to do.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Dear imterrified ~

She will get over it. Her response was an attempt to bully you back into her control. You were allowing her to play both sides and she wants you to go back to doing that!

I exposed my husband - I found over 30 emails, when printed almost 2 inches thick - and I delivered them to his parents.

He was furious. He said all of the garbage CJ wrote about (it's a script, they all do this).

His parents could no longer believe his spin about his 'friendship'.

Our 6th year anniversary of recovery is August 1st.

This is not a sprint, this site does not offer quick fixes - there are no such things.

Offer your brother in law a copy of SAA if he will be open to understanding what you are doing.

You are getting GREAT advise here!

Stay the course my friend. Believe me, the feeling of it feeling like exposure was a disaster will pass. You will feel better and stronger once the inital waves of the storm have passed.

One thing I asked myself when going through it was this - 'What is the WORST thing that could happen? What will he do? Can he divorce me MORE?!'

Hang in there and keep listening to CJ and BR, they are great!

I ditto everything. Exposure ain't fun. But it is necessary. You've done a very brave and courageous thing. Who said being brave isn't about not being afraid. I'm terrified most of the time? I can't recall, but it's from a movie... it applies very well here.

You are doing everything RIGHT.

Remember, your WW is delusional and truly thinks that SHE is the one who is being wronged. She's gotten away with keeping you under her thumb for so long, she thinks that that is how it's supposed to be.

My FWH took it for granted that I would be afraid. Most WS's do. They think that they hold the best hand because they are still there... and they will use that card as long as they think it will get them what they want.

Exposure is hard. And very scary. You will lose friends, but gain respect. You'll gain respect for YOURSELF. Because you stood up for what you believed in.

Keep it up. Stay the course... stay strong and keep the faith. You are taking the higher road, but it isn't the easiest.

Ter,
Please do not apologize to her right now, even if you feel at this moment that we were all wrong and that you want to apologize. Just wait and think about it for a bit. Because if you do apologize, it will just reinforce her in her feelings of entitlement. It will make it all the harder for you to deal with her in her next steps of waywardness if you apologize now. For example, if you tell a child no and then they scream and cry and you say, ok, yes you can--they learn that to scream and cry help them get their way with you. The next time you try to tell the child "no", you will be certain that they will try to scream and cry to get their way. See what I mean?

So even if you are not sure that what you did was the right thing to do, just wait and think about it for a while, don't apologize to her.

My take is the same as everyone else. She was happy because you were allowing her to procede with OM and she also still had you. She can say that she was considering not needing OM as much as before but it sure did not sound that way when just the other day she was telling you that she wanted to see him while she was out of town-remember?

You are doing the right thing. She is doing the same thing to you that she did to her family when she was young. But now she is an adult and you are your husband. This is a very different situation than when she was a kid and could act out her independence with her family.
Lake

Ok, imterrified, please calm down. Your exposure was a success. You got the anticipated response that we see on here every day. I think it is important that you understand that your wife’s affair is an addiction. Her mentality is that of a crack head right now. What you did was the equivalent of turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in a crowd. The CRACKHEADS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO LOVE THIS. Count on that. They are FURIOUS!

Do not back down now. Don't let them scare you off the battle field with a lot of empty huffing and puffing. They want you to stop interfering in the affair. You do this at your own expense.

We wouldn’t avoid measures to separate the crack head from his crack just because it will make him mad! After all, the goal is to sober him up, not to appease him at all cost. The alternative is to allow the crackhead to continue killing herself with crack just to avoid making her mad. Wouldn’t that be silly? It is the exact same premise here.

You have done a GOOD THING, imterrified, you have interfered in a great way in her affair. Her AFFAIR is the greatest threat to your marriage, NOT HER ANGER. Please memorize this statement, because you will need to hold onto this through these trials: MY JOB IS TO SAVE MY MARRIAGE, NOT TO AVOID MAKING MY WIFE MAD AT ALL COSTS.


It is your BEST WEAPON against the affair, so don’t let your BIL’s lack of experience and knowledge scare you off. This is a tried and true measure that was devised by Dr.Bill Harley, a psychologist. He has saved one or two marriages over his 35 yr career.

You owe no apology for exposing her affair, she owes an apology for HAVING an affair. It was unrealistic of him to expect her to bust herself to her brother and there is no reason she should have done the exposing. That sort of defeats the whole point.

IT, don’t let this ANTICIPATED reaction scare you off as it is intended to you. She will do or say anything to MAKE YOU STOP interfering with her affair. It would be a HUGE STRATEGIC MISTAKE to allow her to be successful in that regard. When someone is in the process of destroying your marriage, you don’t ENABLE them in that regard, you do your best to fight for your marriage. Appeasement will only land you in divorce court.

And DO NOT APOLOGIZE!! That would be a disaster! Your W is trying to MANIPULATE you into thinking you have done something WRONG by exposing her. YOU HAVE NOT!

She is trying to shut you down with inappropriate GUILT. If you fall for this tactic, I assure you that you will be handing her ammunition AGAINST YOU that she can use to justify her affair.

It is WRONG TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, it is not wrong to EXPOSE an affair. <---------say this over and over and over to yourself so you don't get manipulated into a false reality leading to inappropriate guilt.

It would be WRONG to continue to keep her dirty little secret for her, because that is ENABLING.

..wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair.....wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair.....wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair.....wrong to have an affair, not wrong to expose affair...

I sent my brother in law a lot of information from this site. I am sure he will read it, and I hope he will see the wisdom in it as I have.

I had one short, terse conversation with my WW. She is obviously still angry and probably will be for some time. She comes to visit this Sunday, and I am going to do everything I can to meet her ENs and to be the best, most attractive man I can be.

My doubt about this method has not been that deep. With much thought and prayer, I feel in my heart this is right path. The problem is defending the decisions I make to my support group when all I can say is "the people on the internet told me". This remark is in no way to be taken as offensive by anyone here. Hopefully, by sending them the same information I have they will also see the wisdom.

As it sits right now, I am still on Plan A.

But it was not "people on the internet," it was Dr. Willard Harley, the founder of one of the worlds most successful marriage recovery programs, Marriage Builders. He is a trained PSYCHOLOGIST with 35 years of successful clinical experience. We are not giving you our little "opinions," we are giving you MARRIAGE BUILDERS principles.

Principles that have saved many of our marriages.

While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Dr. Bill Harley's credentials: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi2000_meet.html

imterrified, is your wife reading this thread?

No. She has no idea I am talking to you guys/gals on this forum.

I really see what you mean in your last post. I am taking the advice of a world renound psychologist that has a proven track record of saving marriages. In all future conversations with family/friends that is how I will phrase it.

Thank you.

BTW, what column is that quote from? I don't see it in the "What Are Plan A and Plan B?" columns or the "Coping with Infidelity: Part 2: How Should Affairs End?".

I'm not sure where ML got her quote but here is an excellent article along the same lines:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

That is what he posted to PEM over on the other side of the board: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...=&PHPSESSID