Ok you guys yesterday I went to my IC/MC and I talked to her about my R with my DH. I told her about an incident that happened sunday. I went out into the yard to water the grass and plant some sod he had gotten and it was just sitting out in the yard dying. I did it because I wanted to do something nice for him. What I got was a very angry H who said that I always do things without talking to him. I thought he would be happy and instead I got just the opposite. I couldn't firgure out why. He kept saying that I always do things without talking to him. I couldn't figure out how me trying to do something nice for my H turned out so bad. We ended up talking for over two hours. I ended up agreeing to only do things after I made sure it was ok with him.

So when I went my C she told asked me if my DH father was a very strict disciplinarian. I told her he was. He would come into his room and throw away any music he felt was inappropriate. He was 21 at the time. She said that because he would do things like that he continuosly cross mt DH boundaires. She said that because of the R with his dad and the constant crossing of boundaires that when I went out into the yard without talking to him first that I triggered him. He felt like he did when he his dad use to do that to him. So he didn't see what I did as the gift it was. I also told her that when we started doing the MB concepts that our R had gotten much better. I told him that I had felt closer to him than I had in a long time and thank you for making me happy and all the things he was doind stopped. I asked her why and she said that he has a fear of intamacy and he afraid to get close to anyone. I asked her if there was any hope for us because of this and she said that because he is trying to engage more with the kids and I. She believes he wants to but doesn't know how. Also that he is a perfectionist because of how strict his dad was and he didn't want to rock the boat because he feared his dad's wrath. So all the critizing he was doing of me was taking on the role of his daddy on me by judging me. I also brought up the PS issue to her and she told me to ask him what was his greatest fear. She believes that he feels thearten by me becoming more attractive because the more attractive I become the more attention from guys I will get and he is afraid he will lose me. I asked him this and I knew it was the truth because he didn't answer he just laughed nerveously like he did when I asked him if he felt threated by the CSR and that was his reaction. So I told him I love him and that he could really believe I want someone else. If that was the case I would not fighting so hard to make this work. I love my H but I don't what I can do to make him realize how much other than what I have been doing.

I don't want him to be insecure because he thinks I look good. I want him to feel proud that he has a nice looking wife. I also want him to know that it's safe here with me and that he can be vurnarable without fearing that I will cause him any pain. It's like I already feel bad because I triggered him by making him relive the things he had gone through in the past. Not only did he feel powerless growing up but he felt powerless right here in the house that he works so hard to provide for his family. Can anyone please advise me? I am truly at a loss.

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What you did is called independent behavior. This is not about his childhood, but about you committing a lovebuster. I know this trick well, DIG, you are speaking to the QUEEN of Independent Behavior. In the test that Dr. Harley gave me I rated VERY HIGH. I know the trick about doing something I want to do and claiming it is for my H. Dat ain't gonna work, DIG. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> AS YOU CAN SEE!

My H would stroke out if I laid sod in his yard or even did anything out there. He likes to always have a vote about what we do to the house, etc. I know this about him, so it would be disrespectful of me to do something without using POJA first. Some men don't care about anything concerning the house, others, like my husband, CARE ABOUT EVERYTHING. Not because he is "controlling" but because that is how he is. And my job as a wife is to RESPECT THAT.

The solution is POJA. Never do anything without your spouses enthusiastic agreement. It might kill ya like it killed me, DIG, but you are going to want to learn to do this well.

And secondly, take the lovebusters questionaires and find out what each others biggest lovebusters are. Mine is INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOR according to my H. You might find that your H rates you high in that regard too, so it might be helpful to read up IB.

Dr. Harley: I define Independent Behavior as the conduct of one spouse that ignores the feelings and interest of the other spouse. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3406_independent.html

And p.s. no more telling him you were "doing it for him" and then acting "hurt" when he gets mad. I SO KNOW DAT TRICK! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> lol

Policy of joint Agreement: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html

Hi there, Dig!

I've been missing you and wondering where you are.

I agree 1000% with Mel. My H is like hers, wanting to be involved in EVERY DECISION about THE HOUSE. I made a CRITICAL MISTAKE in misperceiving my H as being CONTROLLING rather than understanding the error of my INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOR...which I continued for YEARS...the rest is part of MB HISTORY on this forum..me evidencing my ability to CHANGE this..and I haven't turned back since PLAN A.."I need to CHECK with you about something" and I ask that about EVERYTHING before I do it...It's so SURPRISING to me how he really DOES want to be involved in EVERYTHING... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

sigh.........y'all need to stop psychoanalyzing him and focus on your own behaviors, DIG. It is a disrespectful judgment to tell him how he feels and label him as "insecure." He SHOULD feel threatened by your C, she is a THREAT to him. Here she is psychoanalyzing him from the comfort of her office without ever seeing him. Honestly, that would so tick me off if you did that to me.

If you suspect he feels threatened by your improved appearance, the answer isn't armchair psyanalysis and labeling, but a REASSURANCE that he is the only guy you have eyes for. Your job isn't to armchair analyze him, but to do your best to MEET HIS NEEDS and AVOID LOVEBUSTERS. Are you doing that, DIG?

((((DIG))))

My H had a rotten childhood, too. His parents treat him awful to this day. There's NOTHING that I can do about THAT..who HE IS because of his childhood..what his childhood was like..NOTHING that I can do about that.

It will be easier for me to share how I have resolved this and maybe it will be helpful to you. It's helpful to me to put it into words.

My H and I have become closer than close, Dig, during this Recovery. I've done a lot of soul searching. He has been able to become open and honest with me because of all that I have learned HERE and through my READING.

First of all, DIG, as I always say, YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF. You can't change him, his childhood, how he reacts to what you say and do, nothing about HIM. You can only WORK ON YOURSELF. Given my H's childhood-who he is-his basic personality, I KNOW that I cannot do certain things. In order to be the best WIFE to HIM that I can be. I cannot CRITICIZE. I cannot engage in INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOR. I need to be PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVE...and the list goes on and on...meeting HIS PRIMARY NEEDS..not LOVEBUSTING...

Secondly, WHO HE BASICALLY IS IS WHO HE WILL BE. He's not going to change into the person that I need for him to be. He's not going to change in the ways that I think would be best for him. I disagree with doing too much talking about HIM in your counseling because he is not going to change unless HE chooses to do so and if your H changes, it's going to be in ways that he wants to change.

Thirdly, this is about RESPECTING HIM. That was a MAJOR ERROR of mine, DISRESPECTING my H and it's the MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD TO HIM..to be RESPECTED. I learned from reading the book LOVE AND RESPECT that for most if not all men that this is the case. For my husband and maybe yours, too, he FEELS MOST LOVED BY THE WOMAN WHO RESPECTS HIM. Going outside and doing the sod, even if it is dying, would be a BIG NO-NO. There's lots of things right now that I THINK that my H is doing "WRONG". I have to literally bite my tongue NOT to tell him but anytime that I DO IT, I can see the HURT in his face.

You see, someone else may say, I don't want a MAN like that. I don't want an INSECURE MAN. I want a MAN who is STRONG...but I've come to terms with the FACT that THIS IS WHO MY HUSBAND IS. This is the man that GOD gave me. For years and years, I failed to acknowledge the TRUTH. I wanted him to be who I wanted him to be rather than ACCEPTING ALL OF HIM..the BITTER with the SWEET.

Cause Dig, along with the BAGGAGE from his parents, came the TREASURE of who he is..he helps around the house, he is TENDERHEARTED and SENSITIVE to others' HURT FEELINGS..basically, he's A LOT like a LITTLE BOY and needs a lot of NURTURANCE. That's who my H is...

I guess I'm basically answering how I started. FOCUS ON CHANGING YOURSELF, ACCEPTING YOUR HUSBAND FOR WHO HE IS AND TAKING GOOD CARE OF HIM.

I recommend the books: WILD AT HEART by ELDREDGE; LOVE AND RESPECT by EGGERICHS (my absolute favorite, life-changing book) and THE PROPER CARE OF FEEDING OF HUSBANDS by Dr. LAURA.

Work on being the PROVERBS 31 type of wife, too... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mel said basically what I said in only two paragragphs!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok first let me say thank you guys for your helpful responses. Also my IC is my MC so she has met and spoken with my DH quite a few times. So she is not blindly judging my DH. I also told him what she said and asked him if he agrees with her assestment of him. He didn't disagree with it.

Also I have to say I thought I was helping him with the yard I did it as a gift to him because he always complains about me never helping him with the yard. So since I was in a giving mood because he had been working long hours all this week I wanted to give him one less thing to worry about. So I didn't see this as IB. I really was trying to keep him from having to have to worry about the yard because of all the hours he was working this week that and I wanted to keep the kids outside because he was sleeping and I didn't want to disturb him.

He may have taken it as a LB but my heart was in the right place. I was all happy because I just knew he was going to like the fact that I helped him.

I have been going to him with things I intend to do before doing them but how can I do them but how will that work if I want to surprise him? I mean should I say what would you like for your b-day etc? Instead of thinking about what he may or may not like and surprising him.

Just like me taking the kids out of the house when he is getting irrated. I thought that was a nice gesture and he told me it doesn't really make him any difference one way or another because he is use to the noise. So all the things I have been trying to do to met his EN seem to go unseen. So what else am I to think.

Also me saying that he is insecure is not judging him. When I go out with or without him if he sees me putting on makeup he is like what are you putting on makeup for? Or why are you wearing that? Like with my work out clothes he feels they are to tight. That someone will be checking me out. Whenever I am outside the house with or without he is very anxious. If that is not insecure than what is? I just don't understand.

Also I know I may mess up from time to time but whenever he complains about something instead of me taking it personally like I use to I listen and change the behavior. I know sometimes I fall short but for the most part I am doing all I can. That's why I even went out into the yard because he complained and said I never help him. When I don't it's not because I don't want to but because I fear if I don't do it just the way he likes that he will react the way he did with the yard. I feel like I am in a lose-lose situation. Damned if I do and Damned if I don't.

Mims I am sorry I have been MIA. I have been working my but off literally. I am down 23lbs. I look and feel great. Besides that it is harder for me to find time to be online with all the kids all day. However I do feel special that I was missed.

Mel I have to say I do kind of like to do my own thing but not so much since I have been here because I see how me not considering my DH hurts him and I have been doing alot better with this issue but I am still a work in progress.

Has he been complaining about you not HELPING in the yard or not DOING the YARD? There's a big difference between HELPING which means doing it TOGETHER and doing it ALL on your own. Putting in sod is MAJOR!!

I've learned to be careful about GIFTS..another GOOD BOOK is THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES which talks about this issue..what may be a GIFT to YOU..might not be considered A GIFT to HIM. He might be saying that he would ENJOY working in the yard with YOU. Here's that communication issue again. I've learned that it's so important not to MAKE ASSUMPTIONS about what might H wants me to do. I try to encourage him to be CLEAR with me..hard for us all to do..but learning to do this has made us so much more INTIMATE with each other...



Of course your heart was in the right place..but you made a mistake..happens with me ALL THE TIME..my H complains and I say.."Sorry, I made a mistake"....He likes me being able to say that I am sorry and that I am not ALWAYS RIGHT". In the past, I must have tried to convince him that he SHOULD HAVE liked what I did. I don't feel inclined to do that anymore but I must have been like that. Just say: "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you."

I was saying to ACCEPT that your H is INSECURE and to come up with a plan of how you're going to deal with it. You may need to check with him on how he would like for you to dress if that works out for the two of you..but YOU are not going to MAKE HIM become MORE SECURE.



No way, DIG...YOU ARE DOING GREAT...We are dealing with you straight because we like you and want to help you...

I struggle with your SAME ISSUES...

It's like you're still in first grade and I'm in sixth grade but both of us are STILL LEARNING...

Let me warn you - this is something that makes me very, very angry because I have also been dismissed as "insecure." In my case, I was "insecure" about my husband dressing up and looking good and going out to work events with other women. Of course I felt abandoned and disrespected by this behaviour. He told me to "stop being so insecure" and told me I should "toughen up".

I was not being "insecure" and neither is your husband.

We are both being massivly, massively disrespected by our spouses. You are clearly dressing up and putting on makeup FOR OTHER MEN, NOT FOR YOUR HUSBAND. Of course he finds this insulting and disrepectful and very, very hurtful - and you only make it worse AND CONFIRM HIS WORST FEARS by sneeringly dismissing him as "insecure" AND THEN CONTINUING WITH YOUR HURTFUL AND DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOUR.

You are telling your husband that the tight clothes and the make-up and the attention you might get from other men are FAR more important to you than his feelings.

How long do you think any relationship can last when you treat it like that?

You don't have to wear a burqa like the women in Afghanistan, but you could tone it down when going out without him and for heaven's sakes NEVER EVER flirt with other men whether he's there or not. Then dress up all you want when you're going out with your husband and make it clear it's for HIM.

Do you have the same attitude about other men flirting with you that my husband has about other women flirting with him? That if ya promise you won't have sex with these people, it should not bother your spouse and they're just insecure and need psychiatric help if it does?

You WILL destroy your marriage with this dismissive and disrespectful attitude towards your husband. That is a 100% guarantee.

Dr. Harley says to "Avoid Being The Cause Of Your Spouse's Unhappiness." How ya doing in that department?
Mulan

Mulan is raising a good point, DIG.

I don't know if Mulan knows or not but you and I have discussed that you like the attention you get from other men. Remember how you told me that men were "hitting" on you and I told you that you are not supposed to allow that to happen. Maybe your H is picking up on something.

That's got to stop if that's still going on...

I only try to look SEXY for my H and if he thinks I'm being TOO SUGGESTIVE when going out alone..I change..

Plus, I've been thinking about your counselor. If I were your H, I wouldn't go back to her as a marriage counselor. She's now your IC, IMO. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the counselor talking about me while I wasn't there. That doesn't allow your H to give his opinion about what she is saying. What she is saying is coming through you and that makes it different. Plus, the counselor would naturally become more your ally if she does not see him. She is only getting your opinion on situations. Don't like it..doesn't sit well with me.

DIG, I agree with the others that your H is not 'insecure" about your appearance, but rather, doesn't want you to look like pick up bait. It is extremely disrespectful to dismiss him as "insecure" just because he expects you to look ladylike outside of the home.

Like Mimi, I don't have a high opinion of your counselor and if I were your H, wouldn't trust her. Counseling that focuses on others, instead of yourself, is not very effective, as you can see. Rather than identifying your independent behavior, she condemned your H as 'controlling." I don't see the point of that.

Ok Mulan, Mimi and Mel. I have said this over and over again. I have asked my DH if he has a problem with the way I dress and I have even tried on the clothes and asked his opinion and he said he liked it only for him to act crazy when I decided to wear it outside if the house. I have not been dismissing his feelings in the least. However I can not make him tell me how he really feels or be honest with me for that matter.

I no longer flirt with guys nor even talk to them unessecaerliary. I have since learned that even though I felt it was harmless if he didn't I should stop.

As far as the five languages of love. Acts of service so when I worked in the yard I thought it would make him happy. I agree I should ask him what are the things I do that make him happy so I won't be spinning my wheels. I will do that from now on instead of taking a stab at it in the dark and missing the mark.

Also as far as my workout clothes and the makeup. I wear what is comfortable for me to work out in. I mostly take classes like step and zumba and there are no men in the classes so how am I doing this for OM? Why can't I like to look nice for myself because I feel good about losing weight and taking better care of myslef instead of trying to get attention from other men.

I am not trying to justify any behavior on my part because I have been going to my DH for his agreement before I leave the house. If he says I look nice and then comes unhingded while I am out how is that my fault? One night he asked me about why I was putting on makeup we were going out to dinner. Why wouldn't I want to look nice for my DH? I try not to be a source of unhappiness for my man but how can I do that if he doesn't even know what he wants. He will tell me he wants me to do something then when I do it,it still doesn't make him happy. Just like he said he wanted me to lose some weight and I have now it's like he feels more threatened. Just like with the yard.

My DH told me he wanted someone that people wanted to look at now he acts like it's more of a problem than anything.

BTW I forgot how come no one has said anything about why he stop meeting my EN when I told him I felt closer to him then I had in a long time? Or at least my top EN which is admiration.

I would love an explantion for this. I thought positive reenforcement was a good thing. I guess not for me. I have asked him why and he said he didn't know why.

I forgot this as well. How about the other day I was planting junipers in the yard that he asked me to plant and I asked him to come out with me and he did. It was around 11:30pm and the kids were in the bed sleeping. I talked to him for a while then he brought his laptop out so I got my mp.3 player. I was planting and dancing and he completely flipped out. I didn't understand this either. It was late no one was out but him and I yet he felt what I was doing was innappropriate. He acts like my dad. I don't know why but I have been a free spirit and act pretty much the same as I have always acted yet he is so judgemental of me. I remember I was playing with my daughter while we were out and making silly face and acting silly like I normally do with my kids and he had a problem with this. I am a playful and free person by my nature but he seems like he has a poblem with me. I think he is very uptight and controlling. I know this may be a DJ but it is how I feel. I don't feel comfortable most of the time being myself because when I do he always has something to say. Is this anyway for me to feel? Why I can't be comfortable being me as long as I am not doing anything disrespectful to myself or my family without being judged.

Just like he doesn't want me to sing. I had went on a ladies night out and I sang with a band that was playing and they asked me to join. I really wanted to but I could tell Mr. Dig was not happy with the idea even though he said it was good so I didn't do it. I would have loved to. I have wanted to sing on serveral occassions when I went out with him and they had live entertainment yet he never wants me to do it. He told me thats my problem I am just not happy with being a wife and a mother, I want to be Ella Fitzgerald. I asked him what is wrong with wanting to do it all. He couldn't answer. I think the only thing he wants me to do is stay at home and wait on him and the kids hand and foot. It is not what I want. I love taking care of my family but I also like to have fun too. I don't think that just because I am a wife and a mother that this is all I should be until they are grown. What is so wrong with this?

DIG, take what you can use and leave the rest. We gave you our opinions, you don't have to take them.

Mel I understand what you are saying. Do you think I am justifying instead of listening? If so why?

Did you read my first post to you where I talked about ACCEPTING your H and focusing in on CHANGING YOURSELF?

Your focusing on HIM and what YOU want him to do is causing you to build resentment towards HIM?

Are you saying that he is DIFFERENT than he was when you first met?

I don't know if it's him or me or maybe both. I think he complained alot and thought life was unfair to him. He was more open and easy with affection and he was more risque in his behavior than he is now. He was more fun. Now he takes everything way too seriuosly. Like he cares more what other people think than me. We did it anytime anywhere. Now it's like he only wants to do it in our room in the bed. I need change. He seems to like things the same. I think variety is the spice of life. I like to try new recipes, new places to go, things of that nature. He seems to only do that with other people. I asked him forever to take me to lunch because he would always go with his co-workers but he would not take me. He fusses at me for not giving him enough advance notice about wanting to go somewhere. However if his co-workers call him up and say we are having a get together tonight and you are invited. He will go without any complaints.

So I have tried telling him weeks in advance and he either says he forgots or start washes his clothes right before it's time to go out and while his clothes are in the washer he asks me what time I planned on leaving. Like 45 mins to an hour before I am ready to go. Then he fusses because he says that is not enough time for him to get ready. I then ask him if he felt like I didn't give him enough details about what time we were leaving why didn't he ask what time I wanted leave way before then and he doesn't answer. It's like he looks for any reason not to have a good time.

Also when I go home to LA to see our family and he doesn't come with me he goes out to listen to live music and stuff as that however when I ask him to take me to the places he goes to when I am not with him he doesn't. I guess I should feel honored because the last time we went out he actually took me to one of the places. I was very suprised. I feel like he lives a sepreate life. I always invite him to do things with me and the kids and he for the most part has something else to do.

As far as me fixing the things that I do I am all for it, however when I start doing the things he asks of me I feel like he finds some way to sabbatoage my efforts. Like he fussed at me for going out in the yard the other day then today he said he got some sod in the car he wants me to plant. Now I am unsure how I should proceed. I don't know if anyone here read recieveing love, but I think my DH has a hard time believeing he is worthy of my love. I remember when we first started dating he didn't feel like he was good enough for me. I remember because I thought he was crazy because if anybody wasn't good enough it was me and not him. I just knewI was going to ruin him because he was a good boy and I was the rebel always getting in trouble. I thought I was a bad influence on him for the longest time. So now I guess I realize I am worthy of his love but he still doesn't think he is good enough for me.

You are still analyzing HIM, Dig. It does not matter what you think is going on with him and you may very well be right. The point is, those are HIS ISSUES and he can change or stay the same..HIS CHOICE. It is up to you to manage with the cards that YOU have been dealt. What are YOU going to do? Let's say that he stays the same. What are YOU going to do? Your H is not meeting your ENs. A CRUEL OPTION that we know all too well is to have an affair. What are healthy, marriage-building options, DIG, that YOU can CHOOSE to DO rather than COMPLAINING about your H's personality and analyzing his childhood. I've done all of that, too, so I understand but it's not HELPFUL to YOU, IMO.

Mimi I like the way you put that last post. I think it hit home. I can either complain or I can look for solutions. I think the best thing I can do is try and continue to meet his EN without LBing him and hope it gets better. If not I will feel like I have done all I can and I will ask for a D. I think that is the best thing for all involved. I will continue to work on me and look at how I am still contributing to the issues we are having. What do you think? You think this is fair?