Hello everyone,

I have been doing lots of reading here but I have just not posted for a while.

My wife and I did the Retrovaille last Aug. I thought we started off very well but midway thru it she turned south and did not take things very well. In the dialogue writing and discussion, she was saying things about how isolated she felt as a couple and horrible our marriage is.

I stayed very levelheaded and calm and respectfully asked if she could write or say how she felt isolate and alone. I indicated the I had been very much promoting the Marriagebuilders concept of 15 hours undivided time together each week. Also, I said that I very much have wanted us to do more things together in a variety of activities. In my mind, the truth of the matter (which I did not say to her) is that she has ridiculed the idea of Marriagebuilders and the 15 hours per week concept.

Her response on my simple request for more details was her say "quit analyzing me". My response was that I just wanted to know how or why she felt isolated. She would not say any more so that I ended up not know really what she was talking about.

In truth, she was just talking "crazymaking" to me attempting to leave me confused.

So I believe the next step is Steve Harley counseling, which I wish that I had started 3 years ago. I want the “full meal deal” where he would counsel us all the way to completion. Either a very good health marriage or else a divorce. From what I have read here, he is committed to bringing a couple thru the whole process which sounds like what counseling should be.

So what is the best way to do this? My inclination is to sign up for the Marriagebuilder retreat, which I believe, is about $1200.00. This one time fee would qualify us for unlimited counseling to carry us thru the process.

In my mind, I am emotionally prepared for the possibility that this may not work out. So far, my wife has sort of played this like a game and not put her heart into it. From what I have seen the last 4 years, I am not overly optimistic.

Thanks
Welderman

I would sign up for the Marriage Builders weekend. I think the next one is in Orlando but the price has gone up somewhat. They walk you through the entire program and you have full access to Dr. Harley [private forum where he posts to us every morning at 5:30]. If you are not progressing as he thinks you should, he will probably be having a private chat with you and your wife.

One of the reasons I think you would benefit from this is because Dr. Harley will quickly figure your wife out and tell you what is going on. If he thinks you need to cut bait he will not hesitate to tell you that straight out. He is not going to waste your time with false hope schemes. That is what you sorely need, IMO.

The Marriage Builders® Weekend Orlando, Florida
October 26th & 27th, 2007
at the Sheraton Safari Hotel.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi011_0710.html

welderman,

Before the Marriage Builders Weekend, we spent thousands of dollars on three different marriage counselors, all of whom told us to divorce. My husband attended anger management training and went to individual therapy to two different therapists. I went to individual therapy, mostly to two different therapists, but I also saw about five others. I've been to individual therapy more than 150 times since 2001. We also attended a sister program to Retrouville, called Marriage Encounter.

All this running around calmed down considerably since the MB program, although our marriage cannot exactly be called a success right now. The drama is significantly reduced. Given that our history includes significant physical abuse, infidelity, yelling and swearing, and disrespectful judgements like "You don't deserve to have been born", there is significant improvement from where we were before we went through the program. I've been to therapy three times this year, and my husband has gone to a follow up anger management group a few times. I have no desire whatsoever to go looking for a different program or to try a different approach. And best of all, while a marriage cannot be saved unless both participate, Harley gives the BS an approach that helps to set the stage for a better relationship.

The nice thing about the MB Weekend is it lays things out very clearly. I would recommend you follow the POJA in offering to go with her. Let her know you are willing to go because you want to care for her in a way that makes her feel happy and loved. Make the offer to go but don't coerce or threaten her.

And consider buying the MB plaque. It's in our kitchen where we both see it every day. It's very touching:

The Promise

I promise
to care for you,
to protect you,
to be honest with you,
and to spend time
with you.

Even if she doesn't go, you could give her this plaque as a gift.

Cherishing

Cherished, does Dr Harley take good care of you?

ML,

I got a chuckle out of that question. If there is any doubt in anyone's mind whether Dr. Harley will continue counseling a couple as long as one of them is interested in continuing, all they need to do is look up how many posts I've had on the private Website.

OK, I'm going to go count...

The search stopped at 250 posts. It turns out that that is the total -- 41 in the last year and 209 prior to that going back to 2/04. I'm what's known in business as a "loss leader". Dr. Harley did tell me that our marriage fits into a category that is among his most challenging -- the combination of physical abuse and infidelity, and even more challenging is that I was the recipient of severe physical abuse when trying to expose the affair. I got a broken arm when I threatened to call this woman whom he claimed was calling him and it would be rude of him to hang up.

It's embarrassing. I hadn't realized I'd made so many posts. At least my numbers have slowed down. There still is up and down, but there does seem to be some improvement. The most important thing I have followed is to not participate in what is negative for me. If he's nasty, I get away from him. If he wants to tell me what I should do that I don't want to do (like force our son to practice trombone in the summer), I don't do it. It sounds odd that, at least for me, the hard part of following the POJA is not the part about not doing what your spouse is not enthusiastic about you doing; the hard part is not going along with what is negative for you.

I've been thinking of taking a break from MB for a time. It can become addictive to post and try to understand what is going on. I feel better about myself and more understanding of the power struggle in our marriage. To me, what is most brilliant about Harley's whole approach is the Policy of Joint Agreement: "Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse." I've had to adjust my approach somewhat because my husband wasn't enthusiastic about my telling my family about the broken arm or calling this woman's husband, so I've changed to creating one new habit per month to improve his life with me. He's complained about MB, and it's time for me to step away somewhat. It'll be my October habit to limit my time.

Good luck, welderboy. If you can go to the seminar, that's great. If your wife isn't interested, try reading "The One" which is about the POJA.

Cherishing

I think you are one of his favorites. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Why would you say that? Because I am the proof that he sticks with people no longer how long it takes?
Cherishing

I don't know, I just have that sense about his posts to you. You can tell he worries about you and cares very much.

Yes, I agree. We Catholics have a word for it -- vocation. Harley's vocation is to save marriages. It's not just a way to make money. But this is a bit of a threadjack. Welderboy, it's a fabulous program because it teaches what makes marriage work. Even if our marriage doesn't work, I see that I am passing lessons on to our children -- how to negotiate (especially useful with our teenager), what to do with a person who is being nasty to you, how to show care...
Cherishing