MEDC I have to applaud you for opening you eyes and becoming more aware for your sake and the sake of your child. It is a blessing. Most people do things that make them happy and everyone else be damned. Then their children the victims suffer because of that.

As far as the fear you think I misinterpreted. Not really. I just meant me are all fueled by fear in one way or another. Yours fear is making you make better choices of the people you have in your life and around your child. I just used what was going on with me to show how my fear fueled me.

I understand that you may not be susceptible to cheating. I meant be careful of what you maye susceptible to other than that. The things you are not aware of is the things you have to be weary of. That's what I meant by being blindsided. It is those people that unwittingly cheated who didn't think they were susceptible to cheating that got unwittingly involved in A's.

I too know what you mean about being willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. It makes you a lot more likely to get hurt. It's one of the reason my DH think I am naieve.

Also I know what you mean about being stubborn. I think it was this that got me through my childhood. However once I got away from my family of orgin it caused me more harm than good. That is one of the things I am still learning to make a virture instead of a hindrance. Being presitant can be a good thing.

EXACTLY! Well said DIG.

Thank you Suzet. The reason I know is because I was almost there. I almost unwittingly did just that.

That's why I thank God for the experience I went through with my ex. If not for that and the pain I went through I would not have known the kind of pain I could have caused my DH.

When I was going through it I thought God had forsaken me. I was say why God. Now I know. He was preparing for the future. What I thought was cruel and hurtful turned out to be a very good lesson for me indeed.

Underneath follows my full personal interpretation and viewpoint on what Dr Harley teaches about this topic (anyone is welcome to share their opinion):

From Dr Harley:

”We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable.”

From: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

I think it's important to keep in mind here that Dr Harley doesn’t say: “Anyone can have an A”. He says: ”We are all wired to have an affair.” There is a difference... Actually what I think Dr Harley really means here is that anyone can have the temptation to act on inappropriate feelings that will lead to an A. This can happen because, as further stated by Dr Harley: ”We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs.”

Dr Harley further states:

”not all emotional needs are created equally. When some are met, you may only feel comfortable--they make small Love Bank deposits. There are others, however, that can make you feel downright euphoric when met. In fact they make you so happy that you're likely to fall in love with the person that meets them.”

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Therefore, even something simple as conversation and admiration by someone of the opposite sex can deposit huge amounts of love units and instinctively & unwittingly trigger romantic love for that person IF such things (the conversation and admiration in this example) are indeed a person’s most important EN’s. As we all know, there are EN’s that are not exclusively met in M and which can be met by more than one person (such as conversation) at the same time and this is where protection of one’s own weaknesses/vulnerabilities plays an important role as well as strong boundaries. For example, if one’s most important EN is conversation – one is vulnerable towards too regular conversations with people of the opposite sex and must therefore make sure that the spouse is the one who meets this need the best and most often.

Dr Harley says it best:

”Unlike the need for sex, conversation is not an emotional need that should be met exclusively in marriage. Our need for conversation can be ethically met by almost anyone. But if it is one of your most important emotional needs, whoever meets it best will deposit so many love units, you may fall in love with that person. So if it's your need, it's crucial to your marital happiness, and protection from an affair, that your spouse is the one who meets it the best and most often.”

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html

If one unwittingly “falls in love”, became attracted or developed infatuation towards another person because of a need that was met, one can still resist and decide NOT to act on those feelings. However, the fact remains that one can be tempted by the “in love” feelings or feelings of infatuation/attraction in the first place. So IMO what Dr Harley actually mean when he says “we all are wired to have an A”, is that no married person is immune against developing romantic feelings or feelings of attraction/infatuation towards someone else... Or in other words, no one is immune against receiving love units in you love bank from someone else if that person meets one of your EN’s. However, if one is cautious; careful; aware of one one’s weaknesses & vulnerabilities; have strong boundaries in place with the opposite sex; be on guard at all times; guard your heart and mind; stay close to God etc. the chances that this can happen is much less.

From my experience I’ve also learned to be very careful about how sure you are about yourself and temptation. As I’ve said previously, the devil can come against you when you least expect it, when perhaps you don't even see the weakness yourself. It’s very easy to cross an invisible line without being aware of its impact. That’s why precautions and boundaries are so important.

There is no "brand" here MEDC. You can get all the information you need from this site without spending a cent. No one has to read one of his books. There is just a huge wealth of information here available for free.

yes, I know BK....that was not my point.... The harley's make a lot of money(and good for them) by having nice little catch phrases about how every marriage is vulnerable to infidelity. Just like Dr. Phil makes a ton of money on his ways too. This is a business first and foremost and don't believe for one second that the Harley's don't know what does and does not maximize profit.
This forum does not exist out of a philanthropic interest. No, it exists because they get word of mouth advertizing to a very large audience for a very small cost. There are people here that routinely suggest that people call the Harley's or buy their book. From a business perspective, BK, it is brilliant. Now the fact that they charge an inordinate amount for phone counseling is again something that they can do having developed their reputation. And every business has a "brand" BK....a style....a way of selling themselves. Dr. Phil is the master at it in the psych field...he sells hokey with attitude, feeling and knowledge. The Harley's sell, this is the only way to recover your M. Weight Watchers, Bally's...etc... all good businesses do it. I now do grant writing(on a volunteer basis) for a non profit and I approach big business very frequently...the bottom line is really the bottom line. The Harleys are no exception.
And you are right... no one has to read his books or counsel with them... but the barrage that hits some people... even those that said they can't afford the service is a stroke of genius. I actually am in awe of their business acumen. There is a whole army of sales people working on an uppaid basis for the MB team(I even recommend people to them as I see necessary too). Very impressive business plan.

I think that's incredibly cynical MEDC. I know the Harleys themselves view this as a ministry not a business.

Really... well for a ministry they sure charge an out of line amount for phone counseling. It is almost 2x the medicare allowed amount for in-person sessions. That's quite a ministry BK. And no insurance if I am correct too..quite the ministry.

And BK... I must have missed the sliding scale that they offer for people with a lower income. The vast majority of counselors in theis area offer a sliding scale that goes as low as $50 per visit depending on ability to pay.
In my opinion, if this was a ministry, there would NEVER be a person here that needed to worry about affording the session... or suggestions to run up a credit card debt to get therapy that will save them in the long run. That does not sound like the actions of a ministry...it sounds like a business, and the two should never be confused.

Well, I can see you have completely misjudged the Harleys. Never have I met a more kind, caring, SINCERE, GENEROUS, PHILANTHROPIC lot in my life. Dr. Harley counsels people FOR FREE, has a FREE radio call in show, sells his books CHEAP as dirt, and charges COST for shipping on his books. He set up the website so that people could HELP each other here as a free service. If he didn't have a great product, this forum would RUIN his business because the truth would get out.

All of those so-called "catch phrases" are not devised to raise a buck, but are repeated because THEY ARE TRUE. Dr. Harley believes he was called by God to develop this program.

It is unbelievably INSULTING and UNTRUE to believe for a minute that Dr. Harley HOPES people will have affairs so he can make a BUCK. How dare you say something like that. Affairs BREAK THE MAN'S HEART, they don't make him salivate with GREED. Anyone can watch just watch his speeches or listen to him on the radio and realize this.


That is called the FREE MARKET AT WORK, not a sign of some greed on the part of the Harleys. The REASON people recommend the books and coaching with Steve is because it is EFFECTIVE. If it weren't effective, this forum would quickly kill their business because that truth would spread; no one would recommend them.

The forum works and people recommend their product for one reason and one reason only: THEY WORK.

How low class of you to come on this forum, that is paid for by the Harleys, and insult them as charlatans. How unbelievably insulting. The Harleys have helped untold people over the past 35 years, who have YOU HELPED, MEDC??

Did you know that Steve once offered a FREE MB weekend to my sister and her husband because they could not afford the fee?

I am deeply offended at the false and malicious picture you are painting of these good, decent, generous people ON THE VERY FORUM THAT THEY PAY FOR! They are paying for the platform you are using to TRASH AND MALIGN THEM!!

First of all ML... stick your attitude... I NEVER said they hope people have affairs....POINT it out or clam up..
second, their fees are out of line with allowable fees and insurance reimbursement in our country.

You have a habit of twisting words ML... where did I call them charlatins... I actually said that they are good business people...but that is what this is... a business...not a ministry.

So take your manipulation of my words back to your own little board and spout all the venom you want. See, there... based on my experience, facts don't matter.... here I can actually point to my words....how low of class can you get to trash people by twisting their words Mel?

You have a big mouth, MEDC. And sometimes you just don't think. That much is very clear. You crossed the line this time, pal.


You don't have the slightest idea what the Harleys know or don't know, who makes how much money or what their motive is, and you know it, MEDC. You don't know a damn thing. This is just MEDC shooting his mouth off, trying to sound like he knows what he is talking about, when both you and I know you don't.

He is certainly much more generous with his resources than you, MEDC, so I would point out how ridiculous it looks for you to condemn him for motives of avarice when we are all here as his guests, on his dime.

I don't know why you feel compelled to malign Dr. Harley, he has done nothing but give you a FREE platform to shoot your mouth off, but I would suggest it is the height of bad manners to do so on his very forum. Not to mention ungrateful. You are here out of his generosity and this is how you repay him. sheesh...

So what?

Their fees are much less than the cost of a divorce to all concerned.

MEDC - why are you here? It's a serious question. You have no problem slagging off the Harleys and promoting Dr Phil so why do you stay? Most people here support the Harley approach because it actually works from their personal experience not just their theories.

like I said Mel... you can't back up your own claims... you lie, you shout and frankly make a fool of yourself...
so, once again princess, where did I call them charlatans (frauds), where did I say they want people to have affairs so they can make a buck, where does it say on this site that this is a ministry so that my questioning that is in fact questioning them and not someones take on them?

If you can't answer the questions honestly Mel... clam up.

Mel, when I have something to say to someone, I say it.... you may call that a big mouth...but at least I never hid on your board and said things I wasn't willing to say here. Remember, I asked to be removed from that board... but I saw you and others shoot your mouth off about others and then come here and pretend they were your buddies. I give an honest take on things I see... if it ruffles some feathers, so be it...but at least it is honest and not some manipulation of words that YOU have become a master at.

Backpeddling as fast as he can......

lying as usual... my words are here... quote them... come on Mel... stop lying... I did not call them frauds. I have NEVER seen them hold themselves out as ministers to a flock...if I did I would call them on it. I never said they wanted people to have affairs...you twisted and manipulated.

You are the one treading water here Mel. I will stand by my words as written. There is no offense to the Harley's in there...they are business people and they do charge a lot for their service.... where was I wrong in my FACTS.
Do you know the medicare allowable rate for counseling Mel??? I do.

umm, yes you did, which is why folks ignored you. But this is just a cheap tactic to change the SUBJECT because you know you have shot your big mouth off and can't back up what you say.

I would like to see EVIDENCE supporting your comment here, MEDC, about Dr. Harley's motives and the money he supposedly makes:


I would like to see EVIDENCE of how much the Harleys make off their little so called "catch phrases" and evidence of what he does or doesn't know about maximizing his profit here.

Mel... you are ignoring the questions posed to you... you said I said some things... very specific things.

I called them frauds.
They want people to have affairs so they can make a buck.

Back it up. Or continue to lie... your choice.

And it wasn't a cheap shot... I was part of that board and did ask to leave and I did see those things there.

See I speak facts and you speak sort of facts.