Thanks Gray,

No, I am not on AD's. I am an alcoholic and am afraid of taking them.

As for the affair, help me understand why you think it looks as doomed as any you have seen.

I agree this is absolutely the most heartwrenching, painful, shattering experience I have ever know. He is struggling too, why doesn't he just come home?

I don't know another life outside of my husbands, however I am working to change that. I miss him so much and I am so scared of him not ever coming home.

Barbara

Gray,

How do I handle it when he gets more thoughtless, insensitive, and more indifferent.

SG - I tried for three years to get my FWW to come back to the relationship.

You need to follow Harley's advice, and work on YOURSELF right now. Do not let your emotions hinge on a WS. It will kill you. We have all been there.

Are you a recovered alcoholic? ADs typically are ok if you are not abusing the alcohol - check with your doctor.

It is a good time to have a clear head - so no alcohol and the right script for ADs will really help you get your feet on the ground, and keep your emotions more stable. Go see your doctor.

I will pray for you.

foundareason

The more I think about this, here is a man who never let me in to help him through the toughest time in his life. He pushed me away. He is passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling. He is selfish self-centered and thinks that having an affair is ok. Because he loves her.

He leaves his home, has for the most part completely abandoned his kids (they are so angry at him), and yet he thinks it should be the boys who come to him and open up.

He talked to me about integrity on his job and he isn't willing to do something, and yet, he is living an adulterous lifestyle.

What am I missing here? How can I help him understand he is destroying his life and his children's life. Is this really a romantic affair and addiction?

He thinks he lives a sober life, but one of the criteria for staying in recovery is to live with rigorous honesty. He does not want to look at the truth of the situation he is in.

Is it me, or him?

Barbara

Found,

Did you stop trying for him to come home or did you move on yourself?

I will talk to the dr. I am in recovery, but this situation has brought alcohol as a viable solution. Which would literally kill me.

You can not. He must realize that on his own. First, Plan A. Then, Plan B. That is what you can do. Work on yourself.

If he does not respond to that and come out of the fog, then at least you will know you did everything you could to save your marriage.

Put a lot of time into your kids. They need a role model to show them integrity. Buck up and be that model. You can affect them greatly in this. Study this site for hours. Keep bringing your questions to the vets. Be honest here - and expect honest answers.

Take care of yourself is my point. And take care of your kids. Pray for them every day.

far

Ok, I am doing all that as best as I can. I am taking care of myself, I am taking care of the kids and rearranging my priorities and all that.

But I love him so much. But do you think there is hope?

Barbara

help me understand why you think it looks as doomed as any you have seen.

I don't want you to sit there holding your breath waiting for the affair to be over, all because somebody here promised you it would be. I don't want you to give up hope but I do want you to get your head around the idea of losing him. I know how awful that must sound.

Why? Okay. The OW's life is too chaotic and marginal. Undisciplined people can't maintain a relationship in the middle of such limited resources and changing circumstances.

How do I handle it when he gets more thoughtless, insensitive, and more indifferent.

For now, my advice is first to expect it. Then when it happens do not let him see a reaction. Look cheerful and positive even if your guts feel like they're getting ripped out. If he gets mean, you cannot possibly make him understand how much he's hurting you so don't bother. He's an addict. He can't see your pain. He can only see his own. Now, that doesn't mean you should let him hurt you. If he hurts you, lay down your boundaries. Do not give him more chances to hurt you and don't appease him in hopes that it will make his feelings for you return. It will not.

The more I think about this, here is a man who never let me in to help him through the toughest time in his life. He pushed me away. He is passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling. He is selfish self-centered and thinks that having an affair is ok. Because he loves her.

Judge him as honestly as you can. Try to put your hurt aside and look at him as objectively as possible and think very hard about whether this man deserves you, or whether you want to be with someone who would hurt you the way he continues to hurt you.

Some people have affairs and reach a point where they can't go on any further and something gives and they try to make amends and repair the damage they've done, or at least after things fall apart they take a crack at it.

Others lack the necessary combination of humility, courage, patience, and compassion.

GC

GC,

Believe me when I say I am making plans without him. I have gotten a public storage and starting moving things in. He doesn't know about it. I have found an apartment that will be nice for me and my boys. I have put down money to do a reference check and am waiting for them to let me know when one is available.

I am working on selling this house immediately as is and just getting out of here and moving on without him. There is a huge pull to stay in the house and together fix it up, but I think that might be the old me. I want to personally get out of this house and into my own apartment and new life.

I write alot about what's going on, my feelings, and can I make it without him. While I certainly would need him to help me financially and he even tried to set me up by saying that my income is enough (which I am not buying, and I would miss him terribly, in the last few days I have actually kinda liked not having the "pathetic" man, passive-agressive man or WH around. I can't stand his selfishness, I can't stand the fact that he believes and is ok with adjusting to the fact that he sold out on our marriage without being honest about his feelings and inner thoughts (which I only wanted). When he talks, I can hear his all knowing attitude about how things are and yet there is absolutely no taking responsibility on how he hurt me or our marriage. He has given it lip service, but not felt the pain. He just feels the pain of missing the boys.

The man who he is today doesn't deserve me. 6 weeks ago, I would have taken him back under any conditions. As the time goes on and I see how selfish and self centered he is, I don't think I would want him back as he is. The hard part is that he is changing in ways that are making him more selfish and self centered.

The truth is our marriage was hurting for a long time. I wanted to it to work, but he just wouldn't let me in, or search himself to figure out what was wrong. I tried, but his nature was to shut down and he wasn't having sex with me at all, which is so important to me and so I would survive by doing volunteer work and not being at home. I would be honest and tell him I am pulling away, I need physical touch, but he would in essence pat my head, appease me and go further into himself all the while lying to me that he was doing that. When I honestly look at things, it was about what he wanted. He never stood up to be the man and help with the finances in the home. I did all that. Together we have destroyed each other financially because we were both hurting so bad.

What he was feeling wasn't anything that I wasn't willing to help him through, that's the part that hurts the hardest. I loved him so much and would have helped him through anything. He just wasn't willing to go that deep inside. And instead of going to a counselor for outside support or rational thinking, he is staying in his head and his thoughts, which now that I write this are probably the worst thing to do. His self talk is and always has been destructive. That's the addict in him. He, but I completely get there is nothing I can do, but he needs his butt in AA meetings where they talk about how you need to live when you are a recovering addict alcoholic.

And then, can he truly be honestly looking at himself when he is involved in an A, knowing that you have destroyed your family because it got hard and you weren't brave enough to work through the stuff that really hurt inside.

He told me he is learning to be by himself, by taking walks alone. His biggest grip with me was that I was never home and he didn't like it, or that I didn't go to his sport games and watch him.

When I ask him how he is doing, he usually just says ok, never good, and he just seems sad in many ways. The scary part is he is talking himself into what he did, how he is living, and his relationship is something that can last a lifetime, not to mention she is feeding that. She constantly buys him things. She has scored with him and I can't fight her when he is living with her. She has been D twice, my husband says they were abusive relationships. She is 45, has three children, almost 30, 20, and 19 and the 19 has three children.

Our life is middle class, and that's what we wanted for our kids. He made a comment about how the dream to have the big house and nice neighborhood is over. The truth was, we wanted to give our kids a safe environment to grow up in - which we did. And the other truth is, his willingness to escape into his world and not be there for me emotionally but judgementally and with all the mind games, drove me away. I am someone who is vibrant for life. He is tightly wound. I am someone who wanted to talk and look at feelings. He didn't. He would just lie to me and say things were ok. He hated his job, and I knew that, but we were caught up in this vicious cycle that we couldn't see our way through it until this happened.

He says he is in good with G-d. I know he is a child of G-d, but aren't his actions wrong? Doesn't G-d want people to work through their problems in marriage.

The other part of me is that he says he is learning to be alone, and yet he is the one sleeping with someone everynight getting sex when he wants it. I am the one along at night, missing him with all my heart, left with the what ifs and what could be's. I am the one who wants to die of this pain that is crippling to me. And he just doesn't care. That is what hurts so bad, and I am not sure he will care.

The H I lived with would have done anything for me except give me the one thing I wanted, just himself to share with in his dreams and his hurts and fears, or if he did it, it would be in a way that was wrapped around mind games, which pushed me away. I just realized I can't do anything. The universe is unfolding exactly as it should in spite of whether I like it or not.

I have ordered SAA and have HNHN.

My boys are the ones who figured out about the affair and confronted him. My boys are totally and completely pissed at him and he simply doesn't get it. He preached to them about honesty, what to do when you make a mistake, how you need to earn respect and trust back when it is broken. When they confronted him, he never apologize, he just said he loved her as if that made it all ok. I have tried to explain that he is just hurting inside spiritually (WH doesn't think he is - he has a good relationship with G-d), but how can he? The boys don't want him to come home and want us to get D. I am the only one that seems to be holding out hope or fighting for it. Is that stupid or crazy? I believe that when we took our vows, we took it through better or for worse and no matter what you figured out how to make it work for the good of both people. That's why I kept trying. Does G-d bless and A relationship? Especially one that is so chaotic and he always complained our life was too chaotic.

The reality is, that old marriage is dead, because I am changing. He keeps thinking of me in old ways and how I would react, but he doesn't know the new me at all. He doesn't know the person who is calm without all the craziness in my life. It's funny, but he left and like is so much more calm, sad and lonely, but calm.

G-d is doing his work in me. I am learning to live a life that walks in G-ds path, and I just need to leave the outcome of our marriage in G-d and continue to do the work myself.

I guess the selfish part of me doesn't want him to be happy unless he is with me because I miss him so much and he wont' admit or maybe he doesn't miss me at all. But how can you just throw away 23 yrs and being together 29 without trying one more time. I just need a chance.

I am so sorry for rambling - happy 4th everyone.

Barbara