Funeral Directors?

Grief Counselors?

There are plenty of people out there who capitalize on grief. Not their motive tho, is it?

And MEDC never once stated that he thought their ONLY purpose was money-driven.
It happens to be rewarding when your passion allows you to earn a living...

You have somehow jumped to the conclusion that MEDC thinks they are greedy money driven individuals -- and I strongly doubt MEDC would be here supporting their methods if he believed that.

So stop being inflammatory Mel.

I don't feel that MEDC is being HONEST.

and that can be MADDENING.

When I read his "CATCH PHRASE" post, I, too, felt a sense of underlying HOSTILITY and DISTRUST of the HARLEYS' APPROACH..or something..or someone.. was being expressed.

I felt this even before Mel posted...

Knowing the Harleys, I believe this to be true. They are passionate about helping people, so much so, that they will give away books, forum space, advice on the radio, in order to help others. They also make their living from their efforts.


As do you, dear. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I thought you said this was not unscrupulous to you, Lexxy? If not, then we will never agree on the ethics of "using catchphrases to make money." No reason to keep going on and on about it. Its not unscrupulous to you, it is to me, so be it. NEXT!

Lexx:

Do you follow MEDC' posts? As far as I can tell, he does not support their methods. He's called those of us who do KOOLAID DRINKERS and has been offensive towards me because of my support of the methods. I believe what I'm saying to be true of MEDC. I often wonder what his point is HERE. I think he's a caring person and means well but a SUPPPORTER OF MBers? I don't think so.

huh?

MEDC actually MOCKS people here who believe in Harley's principles as "kool-aid" drinkers, as Mimi stated, so its ludicrous to suggest he supports their methods. He doesn't.

I doubt I do it as much as you... You are quite a bit ahead of me on that one! And I noticed you are a fellow Texan. Dontcha just love knowing I could be your neighbor? hee hee

oh, I don't know, you might not want to point that finger at others when you do it yourself. That might be hypocritical, ya know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Where in Texas are you? I am in Houston?

you know... I just can't get away... I feel like Al Pacino in GF3
Anyway, yes, I have used the term kool aid drinkers... byt he way they have a great catch phrase if I remember properly. That does not refer to people that follow Harley's principles... it refers to people here and ANYWHERE that blindly follow anyone. I am not sure if I remember the context of the comment...but it was something I disagreed with the good Dr. on.... and there have been a few things I do disagree with and will question anyones blind adherence to anything. It might have been the issue of informing OMP and Dr. harley not taking a moral stance on that... I honestly don't remember.

So, Mimi... If I can show you posts where I have recommended that people call him, do you think that might throw a monkey wrench into that theory that I don't support MB's???

I don't know what you are talking about Mel. I never used the word "unscrupulous" because I don't think I'd spell it right....so NO I didn't say anything of the sort. ??
Not sure where you're going with that other than to paint me as unethical and you as the queen of ethics.
anyway...

my point is that it is NECCESSARY in society to have those that profit from grief. Not because they are greedy horrible people -- but because that is a neccessary role in society that they fill. Its not unethical to profit from grief. (do you think "grief" related services should be provided free?)

Which is I suppose where you got your undies in a bunch - because you choose to jump to conclusions of MEDC's comments. He did not question their motivation.

And thats just not there in his statements -- regardless of how you interpret it.

BTW... there are some other long time supporters of MB here that also use the phrase... I think one did right on this thread. There are a group of people here that feel that just because the Dr. says something it is true. I happen to think about things and reach my own conclusions...it is no surprise that I am a registered indie!

ooops, nope, it was yesterdays thread. My mistake.

"There are a group of people here that feel that just because the Dr. says something it is true. I happen to think about things and reach my own conclusions..."

Same goes for me too, I recently got chewed on for feeling that way, so I sympathize with you on that.

ML... Austin. Houston huh? I'm SO sorry! lol

Yes, it is and yes he did question their motivation. I don't know why you REFUSE to see that, but I can only conclude that you really mean it when you say this is not unscrupulous TO YOU.

I suspect you dont see it because, according to you, it is OK to pander grief to make a buck. Whereas, in most people's world it is very unscrupulous to "make a lot of money by having nice little catch phrases about how every marriage is vulnerable to infidelity." In other words, the implication is not that he says this because it is TRUE [which it is] but to make a BUCK.

The only one I see whose "undies are in a bunch" here is YOU. MEDC and I hashed this all out last night. You are the one who won't let it go.

I don't know of ANYONE who believes that something is true "just because Dr. Harley says it." That is a completely baseless, silly characterization that can't be supported.

However, we ARE HERE to learn Marriage Builders principles, after all. Nor am I aware that he LIES.

Here we go again.
"according to you, it is OK to pander grief to make a buck."
I never said that.
You are now twisting MY words. Whatever Mel.

You want to read implications into things that are just not said. And I'm not playing your game.
You try to state things as FACTS; when it suits you to misquote and misinterpret.

You can't quote people on things they haven't said or twist their words to meanings that suit you.
THAT is unethical.

MEDC:

You did not call them charlatans.
You did call them good business people.

Maybe all the other terminolgy you used caused the anger on Mel's part.



and:



and this:



Oh, and this:



And then this:



And again:



Once again:



And then:



one more time:



Then we finally get to the real point. And why I was the second post on this thread.



Why are you, of all people, questioning the fees?

Your not married, you don't need the services.

Your never going to have an affair, so you never need to buy that book.

You can watch Dr. Phil for free: as you state:



Dr. Harley blows Dr. Phil away.

I have met the man. In the City of Brotherly Love. And although I have never had the pleasure of having meeting with him like Mel, the wonderings and others around here, I can tell you that his caring and support flow to every part of the organization.

His website could consist of three pages, with teaser's "we have answers, do you want to pay for them?"

Many, many of the other marriage websites are just like that....

You pay, you get to play. This one is NOT.

This one lays it all out. You can get so much, and NEVER pay a dime.

BobPure says he spent about $66 saving his marriage.

I've spent so much more than that, and I would have paid twice what I have already paid, for what it gave me.

So please, just back off of questionong the fees.

And arguing with Mel.

Mel's point is simple, and backed up with all the above quotes.

Her reference to your calling them charlatans, and here to make a buck, in context, is correct. You never typed the words, but the implication is unmistakable. And if charlatan isn't the right word, then there are a number of others, that would have been appropriate as well.

Maybe Mel's calling you out made you dig in your heels, and I've never seen Mel back down either, but you are on the Harleys site. Don't EVER forget that.....

JMVHO

LG

Nope, that is an accurate characterization of his comments. Comments that you claim to support. And if you agree that it is perfectly ethical, then that says alot about you. But "make[ing] a lot of money(and good for them) by having nice little catch phrases about how every marriage is vulnerable to infidelity," is PANDERING grief to make a buck.

Well Mel; you're a little off-base.
This is not so much about MEDC's comments for me as it is about YOUR methods of arguing.
Its not about me supporting MEDC and his comments, but about your bullying and STRAWMAN tactics.
It is not about my ethics, but your style of misquoting, misdirecting and drawing conclusions and reporting them as facts.

Is it marketing genius or pandering grief??
Does it matter??

I personally am not questioning anyones ethics.
I simply think its unfair of you to misquote someone to inflame others against him.