screen spew....duck when you see it coming Jo!

Hmmm...no pun intended I imagine.

committed

**snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Pep, no, I don’t personally love and care for everyone I post to and that is certainly not a requirement I have before I offer advice/opinions to someone. I agree such will be an unreasonable expectation to others and myself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

HOWEVER, even if I don’t love and care for a person, I still care about that’s person circumstances and in the case of a WS, I care how that person’s destructive behavior is affecting him/her and also how that behavior is hurting & affecting the innocent victims and people who do personally care for the WS like family, close friends etc.

Therefore, IMO, if I really cares about the above things and want to see someone recover and heal his/her M, the care will get through my posts even if I don’t like the person I post to. That was what I was referring to when I used the words ”depths of people's love and caring” because this phrase can include personal caring for a person and/or general caring about that person’s circumstances and the way his/her destructive behavior is affecting others.

So even if I find a person’s behavior despicable/horrible and I don’t like the person as a result of that, I can still speak “hard truths” and deliver a 2 x 4 without being attacking and disrespectful towards that person because I know I might then stand a better chance to “get through” to that person…and will hopefully help to motivate that person to take corrective steps that will save the M and help the innocent victims who were affected by his/her destructive behaviors too.

Yea but we love you anyways Mel. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Btw, I had no idea this thread would end up as duck soup! Maybe 'very cold duck' or duck ala king?!@?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I started this thread NOT to control others but to find out who received or gave MB 2x4 and how they felt about it. I didn't go into the details to describe the kind of MB 2x4, my error.... I 'assumed' (bad orchid!!) that it w/b known as what is often straight talk that tend to offend some. What I wanted to show is that this very type of 'straight talk' is necessary. Kudos only type of posts have initial benefit but in the long run to move forward getting down to the nitty gritty is often needed to help the BS see the need and the way to move forward.

Are some of us a bit on the blunt side when posting? Yep. Me included. Can some of our post hurt feelings? Yep, mind included. Should it? Probably, why? Because no matter how nice or helpful we try to be someone will feel hurt. Like the way we can't make a WS see the error of his ways, doesn't make the WS' ways error free or less wrong. Still the BS, family and friends try until an unconventional method (i.e. reverse babble, etc.) comes along and whops the WS upside the head.

If at the very least this thread shows those wondering what we are really like then maybe just maybe the feeling of camaraderie can be experienced.

Has this board experienced animosity, betrayal, frustration and even anger from other posters? Probably. Remember we control what we let affect us. Like it has been repeatedly pointed out, 'if you don't like a thread..... stop reading it'. Is it ok to disagree? Yes, how we choose to disagree is the key. Imagine if we can't get along here which is suppose t/b a place of safety and support, how in the world do we expect to handle the out of control, out of this world alien (aka: WS)? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I miss the in depth posts we used to have years ago. A lot was learned by those who took the time to help those of us either in denial or lost.

JMHO,
L.

Oh Pep, and by the way, I don’t think calling an affair adultery is a 2 x 4 at all. It’s fact and need to be pointed out. Calling an affair adultery (especially on a MB site) is much more correct and applicable IMO. Sometimes I refer to an EA as “emotional adultery” and the behavior of people who betray their spouses by looking at porn or “lusting” after other people in their minds I call “mental adultery”. I have gotten very upset with people on this board in the past who don’t view porn viewing or “lusting” after others as cheating behavior and then have used the correct phrase to describe that behavior e.g. “mental adultery” and have then also pointed out what the Bible teaches about it e.g. “adultery in the heart” that IMO applies to emotional and/or mental adultery (the same sins I’ve committed towards God, my H and M). Physical adultery is just the next step from emotional and/or mental adultery IMO.

Owl,

I think you should step up and defend someone who is being abused, of course. In fact I would have little respect for someone who didn't.

As another example I thought about last night, is the workplace. Remembering at work we are paid employees performing a function. I am a supervisor in my job, and manage the branch office I work at. I am very careful about what I say to those who work under my supervision. I am trained to speak only in a certain way, to train, to uplift. I am in a role at work. The people who work for me are subordinates, and I am the leader. I set the stage.

That is not my role here. I come here to talk and everyone I talk to is in the same position as I am, neither above nor beneath me. So I can talk how ever I want here.

We are peers here. We are equal. And all the information anyone needs to learn MB is here on the site so it is neither my job nor necessary for me to train anyone.

And I can't stand it when someone says it is better to say something a certain way because the newbies can't handle bluntness. How arrogant.

If you want to know the truth Owl, I learn far more from people by how people live than from what they say.

To give one example of inspiration that has very, very little to do with the words she uses is Mimi. Mimi, at the age of 50 (or so) has decided to revamp everything about herself, to reinvent herself. She had a goal to become a more free spirited, wildly loving, stylish wife. To reinvent her marriage and find a different, better way to love her husband, her children and to love her life.

This is inspiring, and it has nothing to do with her style of posting.

So, in my opinion the best way to give courage, to give support, and hope is be open enough about yourself that others can take inspiration from you and how you have made your life into something good despite the crap you have had to survive.

Good morning....

Star ~ Orchid started this thread to highlight the value of 2x4s. (Sorry to speak for you Orchid, hit me btwn the eyes if I got it wrong!)

It got derailed by the "oh my gosh the poor fragile darlins can't handle it!"

Thank goodness Pep, Jo and Mel got it back on track! Who needs a 2x4 when you got ducks and tape?

Then let's try to get back to those. Maybe we could find a way to allow all thoughts to be accepted and not cut off or stopped, as Star said.

If we can change the overall temperament of the board to let all speak freely than the threads would last and more people would be encouraged to keep sharing their thoughts, a more brainstorming type of environment than what we have seen lately.

Is this your hope Orchid?

I will do my part to help when I see people getting shut up and try to not be one of those people myself. And to come to the defense of someone being abused, however rare around here (Owl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />), however I'm not going to try and figure out if a particularly crass poster has a true desire to help or not.

Free speech is a good thing, and most people are not as weak as they are portrayed, or as they portray themselves as BR said.

If they can't handle it when they get here, by golly they'll be able to handle it by the time they leave. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, Orchid, I know that was never your intention but it seems to have been hijacked by the PITY PARTY BRIGRADE as we are overdue for regularly scheduled pity parade.

HOWEVER, I have begun a new thread with a novel approach! Instead of taking those other mean bastgage's inventories,[whom we can never change] we take OUR OWN inventory. Much more productive and could be fun! Join the fun here, boys and girls: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3274049

Bramblerose,


No she didn't start this thread to "highlight" their value.....The name of the thread is"MB 2x4...... worth it? Yes or No w/ an explanation, please " and said "your opinions are greatly appreciated". She said nothing about only "assenting" opinions or only opinions "highlighting the value" of 2x4s. I said yes and no....and explained why.



I don't think so. I think it got derailed because there is an intolerance for other opinions and because I didn't give a blanket approval....some folks didn't like it. Nowhere did I speak of "fragility" or anyone's inability to "handle" 2x4s. That's just a straw man argument again. You're presenting an exaggerated version of what was said, and then discrediting that version.....like it's real. My words are posted....so if I said those things....surely you can quote me. I never spoke of fragility at all, and I think people can survive any of the 2x4s delivered here.....I commented on the affectiveness of the kind of 2x4s that are all about truth, and those that are percieve are more about harm.

I'm not sure why that angers you so much.

I just love you Starfish!!!!! Sometimes my fingers and my mind don't match up too well, you say things exactly the way I want them to come across. Thank you!

Dear Suzet: [color:"red"] [/color]

I kinda-sorta know what you mean ... but my approach is different (naturally)

I love and care for TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE ... so I post not to offend the MARRIAGE ... the MARRIAGE is more important to me than the feelings of posters .... just how I approach things

Misdirect

Misrepresent

and then

Mock.

These are not honest behaviors.

People of good will can disagree.
With integrity.

When misdirection, misrepresentation and mockery are used,
Then I question the good will.
And I question the integrity
Of the people who persistantly choose that path.

I have watched this pattern appear on the forum.
Discussion begins.
Disagreements occur.
And then the swirling begins.
Insults disguised as humor.
Ridicule.
Mockery.
Derision.

A call out to one's fellow friends.
A flurry of silliness.
That shuts down discussion.
That distracts from the topic.

Nothing wrong with humor.
Nothing wrong with silliness.

Except when it is being wielded as a weapon.
Except when it is being used to attack.
Except when it is used to demean.
Except when it is used to discount an "opponent".

I've seen this pattern on this forum.

I also saw it in highschool.

EXACTLY! Well said star*fish! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is what I did too. I offered my opinion as Orchid requested at her thread heading. I stated what type of 2 x 4 I agree with (the affectiveness of it IMO)…and what type of 2 x 4 I don’t agree with. I also explained (as requested by Orchid) the reasons for my opinion/viewpoint.

I believe Orchid's intent was to discuss how 2x4's had effected OURSELVES, ["Have you experience the MB 2x4?"] not to initiate yet another fruitless "let's scrutinize those other mean bastages and their sorry [censored] posting styles" thread.

Unfortunately, it was highjacked for that purpose.

Pep, I think most people on here believe, love and care about traditional marriage in spite of their different approaches... I know I do. That’s why I feel concerned and care when people act destructive towards themselves and others and cause hurt to their families AND marriages…because I know those destructive actions will prevent a person and his/her spouse from having/attaining a marriage as God created it to be e.g. traditional marriage. Now, if I post in a way that will probably make that poster act defensive instead of “hearing” & “getting” the true message, a chance will be “wasted” IMO to help that person and the BS to save and/or attain a traditional marriage.

Hmmm....if the intent was to only focus on "how a 2x4 affected ourselves", and nothing else...what would be the value of the thread? Why ask what other people felt about receiving a 2x4, if you have no interest in discussing what those impacts were, and possible ways to improve the way we deliver those 2x4s? Just a rhetorical question with no goal at all?

Apparently, Orchid did see "value" in asking that question, she asked it.

But, speaking of "value," Owl, what would be the value of endless scrutinization of the posting styles of others? You have engaged in this on a quite frequent basis, I just wonder what it has ever availed you? Is there a goal to this? I can understand if your goal is to improve the way YOU deliver 2x4's, but isn't it futile to endlessly scrutinize others?