Post deleted by Gruffles

G:

Ignore your Father.

He might know to shoot a bear, but he don't know Affair killin'...

We do.

Controlling, smolling. Your Wife is heading to VA to be with another man!

Sorry. Leave him in the dark for a while.

LG

Please, please please, listen to these folks here. You have an opportunity, right now, to stop this from going to the next step. YOU can do this, YOUR WW CANNOT at this point.

I'm not down-playing the magnatude of an EA, but a PA is a whole different ballgame here. If I had been given the opportunity that you have been given, I could have been able to save my FWH and I, and our children the horrible pain of having to go thru his 8-month PA with a former college classmate. I won't even go into the terrible period that followed the PA and the pain that still persists and haunts us both to this day.

I don't even wonder, even in "potential" WH mode, he would have ended it cold had I made him choose her or me while is was still a fledgling EA or even once it had become a PA.

I soooooo agree with these folks here, she will thank you some day because no matter what she thinks right now. Having an affair will cause her so much more pain than any fleeting excitement or joy she might experience.

Save her, save yourself, and save your children from having to go thru this.

Who

Of course she's complaining you are too controlling. She wanted to meet up with her new boyfriend, and you wouldn't let her. Secondly, what degree does your dad have in psychology or counseling? Has he ever recovered a marriage from infidelity? We have, and we've done it following an experienced and well-respected PhD psychologist's program which you (and he) can read for yourself. Seriously, your marriage is not in trouble because you are too "controlling," it is in trouble because your wife was about to (and still may if you don't escort her) have sex with her ex-boyfriend. THAT is why your marriage is in trouble.

Listen to LG, You simply can't take advice from someone who hasn't "been there." Surely your father isn't advising you to let your WW go make whooppeee with OM.

If you let her go, that is what you are agreeing to IMHO.

Who

Take a deep breath and breathe. You'll get through this. It just hurts, it doesn't kill...

You can't believe your wife right now and not even really yourself. Let me give you an example from my sitch.

After 5+ months of my discovering W's affair and doing a good Plan A, we took a family vacation. Now before the trip I found a communication that indicated WW was planning a meeting with her OM the week we got back from our trip. We went on the trip and the entire family had a great time. I mentally downplayed WW's plans. I hadn't seen a confirmation from OM and I just couldn't believe that WW would cheat on me that week. I had been the best husband I knew how to be. WW was communicating hope and reconciliation which I wanted to hear. And after we got back, one morning we made love, she appeared to go to work, and instead she drove straight to meet OM for sex. [I didn't think it would happen, but I did monitor for it]

In hindsight I was foolish. (I hadn't posted here; someone would have told me how deceived I was.) Even though I knew about prior actual sex between WW and OM, I just couldn't put aside my emotions of the day and truly believe she'd do it this time. I was really crushed.

My wife...TODAY...wishes I had been MORE controlling.

You are protecting her, your wife, from making the biggest mistake of her life.

It's honorable...not controlling.

It's what a husband SHOULD DO.

Your father is too close to the situation emotionally to be a complete use. Even professionals don't counsel their own family members. He is too concerned with your well being. We are concerned with you, your marriage, your kids and your wife and have been there, done that.

Your boss at your new job will likely understand and RESPECT you for it. If not...not a very good boss and you're better off working somewhere else.

The plus side to spending money you don't have...less money for WW to travel with, spend money on OM, spend money on cell phone bills, spend money on divorce attorney's. Divorce is expensive.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - someone should check the Virginia divorce laws for residency requirements. She MAY apply for a Virginia drivers license and claim her parents address while she's there in anticipation of filing divorce there in say 6 months claiming she lived there. Also, sometime waywards take the kids on a "trip" and just stay. It's a very bad move for custody...they end up losing most of the time and being forced to return the kids back to the old state...but you should be prepared to get an attorney ASAP should such circumstances play out. I know we are ahead of ourselves, It's just something to watch out for...it's happened before.

Okay, well why not try this. Tomorrow, when you meet with the MC, you can at some point ask this question:

"Now I don't want to just focus on Mrs. Gruffles intent to have an affair with OM; I realize that there are significant problems in our M on both sides. However, I would really appreciate it if you (counselor) could give me an opinion about this. Tomorrow Mrs. Gruffles and kids are planning to go on a 2-week trip to visit her parents. OM is an old BF and lives in her hometown. Do you think a woman recently tempted to cheat on her husband with an old BF could resist the temptation to contact him during a 2 week cross-country trip? Is this trip going to be good for our family?"

Welcome to MB and to Montana. So sorry for the situation you are in. Listen to the good folks offering their experienced advice....they have been there, done that.

Fox

Post deleted by Gruffles

The advice we are giving you are tried and true MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPLES. We are not giving you our own little personal opinions. MB was founded by one of the most successful psychologists in the US, Dr. Willard Harley, who specializes in ADULTERY. Use HIS credentials, not ours, because we are telling things we learned HERE.

Secondly, we have saved our marriages using these principles, so we have EXPERIENCE at this.

Ask for her success rate in marital counseling. What is her experience in counseling those who are in affairs and not yet in recovery? See, the purpose of counseling is MARITAL RECOVERY, which is impossible when one partner is in an affair, so that is why it is usually useless in these cases.

I would ask her if she is familiar with Marriage Builders.

Secondly, a wayward who is in an affair will often use marriage counseling just before she dumps her spouse to be able to say: "see, I tried and nothing worked." That is pretty common.

Post deleted by Gruffles

Gruffles:

About this:

"She asked me if I was asking for them -not- to go back there and I said I couldn't do that to her and my wife's dad."


YES, YOU CAN, AND SHOULD. Your not doing it them, WW is DOING IT TO YOU!

And this:

"She did know about the OP. I'm guessing that really is why she suggested to my wife she go to CA for that extra trip instead of back to VA alone"

It OK for her to come out to VA, and meet with OM.

So now we know that MIL is OK with all this.

She in NOT in your court.

Sorry. Nobody leaves on Wednesday. YOU CAN NOT ALLOW IT.

And this line proves it:

"She says the itinerary was so full (she probably was proactive to make it that way) that she didn't really see how my wife could fit the OP in anyway"

DO NOT THINK for a MOMENT that your WW will NOT FIND the TIME. SHE WILL LIE, Swearing on her CHILDREN's HEAD that she is not going to meet OM. And then she will do it. MIL is already facilitating it. She might get mad at your WW, but she not going to stop her.

ReRead WoundedGM's post above. He spent a fabulous week with WW, and she planned to meet OM as soon as possible after returning.

Been There, Done That, myself.

And finally:

"She sounds 10X more into us actually fixing this marriage now than even a couple/few days ago --and 100% more into it than two weeks ago."

OF COURSE, by Thursday night, she should be in OM House. Expect SF tonight if you keep going along with her.

Count on it.

WW will fight you tooth and nail to go. If she wasn't planning on meeting OM, she doesn't need to go. Hi Mom, Bye MOM, please watch the kids.

I could recommend that you let her get on the flight, but she ain't taking the kids.

But that offer shouldn't even be made.

However, she is free to go anywhere she wants, she is not free to take your children away from thier home. That is the only message you can give her.

But, you are saving her from herself, and by not allowing her on the airplane, you prevent any of that from happening.

And I DO NOT CARE HOW BAD YOUR M USED TO BE.

DO you want to FIX IT?

The first Step? DO NOT LET HER ON THAT PLANE.

That one act will set back your efforts, many, many months.

Sorry Gruffles, you are getting tough love here, but you need to do these things, the devasastion is already bad, but what happens next in nuclear winter....

LG

Part of the manipulation a wayward will use to get you to "allow" them to take a trip to ostensibly visit the OM is....

drum roll please,

They will be NICE to you.

They will hug you, make love to you, make promises and commitments to you.

All for the SOLE purpose of furthering their addiction to OM.

IF the plan was...to visit OM in a secret adulterous liason, THEN, that is what will happen

REGARDLESS of how she treats you or what she says.

Don't believe me.

Then, even if you don't plan to go, try, just try, TELLING your wife that YOU are coming too. Tell her you got your boss to give you the time off and you are excited to take this trip with her and the kids.

WW will go nuts. You can't possibly come. Her little "nice" attitude will become venemous. She will then pull out the "controlling" card. How she never gets time alone with her family. How her family doesn't want you to come. You are not welcome or invited. Maybe it would just be rude for you to come.

Whatever...she WON'T allow it.

Don't allow her to snow you. An addict (that's what waywards are) will do or say anything to get their way. Think of this...what does it really cost her to be nice to you for TWO WHOLE DAYS. Nothing.

Further...your MIL KNEW and still welcomed WW to Virginia for a visit. Why didn't she tell you??? I'm also suspicious of her being NICE to you when she doesn't like you. Parents can be VERY enabling. MOM may be in on the whole thing. You shouldn't have promised her anything.

I'm sorry you are here. I, like you, wanted so badly to believe my wife. I thought I could look her in the eye and just know and trust her. I failed us. Perhaps the best course of action is for you to get a voice activated digital recorder and hide it in her car...tonight. It may be tough to believe some strangers on the internet and act upon it in just ONE day, but if you get lucky and hear a conversation between WW and OM or WW and her mother or best friend you may then be convinced.

Mr. Wondering

Did you not notice this… “they’re onto me”?


Of course she does, she’s playing nicey nice so she’ll get her way. She’s “excited” about her trip, and I don’t think it’s just because she’s going to see mom and dad. Watch what happens if you put your foot down. The gloves will come off and she’ll make you out to be the bad guy. You’ll probably hear, “you’re controlling!”, “you don’t trust me!”, “you don’t want me to be happy!”, “I’m a grown woman and I can do as I please!”, “it’s over”, “I can’t live this way!”, yada, yada, yada.

Your job (as a husband and father) is to PROTECT your family. This means putting an end to her fantasy.

Ask your counselor in plain terms. “How can it be good for our marriage if my wife goes to her hometown where OM lives? Especially if she recently invited him on a separate trip to California?”

Does your wife know that you know about the emails?

Mr. W, I was posting basically the same thing at the same time! Anyways, what Mr. W says.

Gruffles:

Say instead of logging in yesterday, you logged in two weeks from now.....

You talked to your kids and they tell you that "Mommy has been going Away at night"

And your MIL tells you that "WW has found someone new and I really like him, and the discussions we have been having for the past week convince me that you are a horrible H and bad Dad. And the new guy, I have known since they were in school and is a good boy."

And then you ask us:

"WHAT CAN I DO TO SAVE THIS?"

Imagine how much more difficult it will be then......

Cuz if you think the next two days are going to be hard, that's NOTHING compared to the above scenario!

LG

Gruffles, her reasons for MC may have changed since she is in an affair, though. The conditions in your marriage have sure changed. Usually, by the time one gets in an affair, they have given up. And recovery is impossible when there is an ongoing affair, rendering counseling useless.

Just be careful, because we see many casualities of "counseling" on this forum, which is why you won't see a high regard for it around here. Most are not pro-marriage and almost none understand the dynamics of adultery, which is dangerous.

The reason is it dangerous is because if you don't understand the addictive nature and accompanying FOG BABBLE, an ignorant counselor can recommend taking permanent action on a very temporary state of mind. For example, your wife may even feel like leaving your marriage today.

The answer is not to abandon the marriage, but to fix the issue that has made her want to leave. Many counselors will, instead of resolving the marital issue, will facilitate the divorce and/or encourage one partner to PURSUE the affair. It can be disasterous with the wrong counselor.

LOL,

What princessmeggy says!


Though, if I read the emails as princess did. Maybe MIL was discouraging wife from visiting Virginia once she caught on to what was occurring with OM. That MAY actually be a good sign.

Mr. W