After the D is final would be the time to go to plan b with him. I do not want to rock the boat with him right now... right now I have been nice to him, not mean, calm, rational... He is the one spinning out of control now.

I want to remain calm, and collected to him, even if it means putting up with some of his [email]cr@p[/email] until the D is final. I want to give him no reason to want to delay it, or try to get equity out of the house... Right now, the thing for me to do is remain on my course. If I were to suddenly stop talking to him, not be friendly to him when we exchanged the kids, or nice to him when he calls to tell the girls goodnight, I think it would flip him out. I think he is FINALLY realizing what is going on. He has a vindictive side to him, that if he is not getting what he wants, he will be sure to [email]scr@w[/email] with my plans.

After the D? That is a whole other ball game... there will be no reason for me to subject myself to his nonsense. And I will not be hesitant to not talk to him. The D is right around the corner... I am fine with it all until then. To me, this is a small price to pay to ensure my financial security.

But thanks for the suggestion.

Oh, he called today and left a message. It said, "I am sorry that I was that way to you yesterday, you did not deserve it. I just quit smoking, and I am really on edge. I am sorry if I made you feel bad."

You know that it was that he realizes that he made an [email]a@@[/email] out of himself, and I did not take the bait, so he could not blame me for his actions. So he apologized. So that is good.

Rin-
LMAO! I should just look at him with a shocked expression, and say, "should I call 911? You are acting crazy!!!!" LMAO! I can fantasize, can't I?

FCF- my thoughts exactly...

LMAO...yeah, when he ask why, you can say that he's acting like a person having a drug overdose! LMAO...

Call him back and tell him to get the patch! So he'll stop acting like an [email]a@@!![/email] LMAO...or just buy a box and hand it to him...when he asks why, explain...or you could get him some suppositories...LMAO

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

He can sense that you are being nice to him right now to get what you want in the divorce. He wants to remain friends after the divorce, and doesn't want to give you what you want if you are going to plan B him afterwards. He thinks you are trying to manipulate him for more money. I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong, but he is right.

Jim-
He has no idea of plan B. None. I have given him no indication that things will be different with us.

I am not really manipulating him for more money, I am manipulating him for the equity of the house.... which was mostly my money anyway. It is only fair I think... that I get the house, the equity, and he strolls off into the distance being a free-wheeling single....

The thing is, I do not see WHY he wants to be friends... Really, I don't. Why?

I think a part of him regrets that this is happening, and I think that he DOES miss me, and I think he will feel terrible when I start dating... but what does he expect? I mean for real.

It is annoying, I know where I stand... I just want to be FIRMLY standing, in my house, with my assets, that I worked so hard for...you know?

Thanks.....

Rin, I thought about giving him the patch... but it is TOO expensive! LOL!

Well, WH has been a crab lately.
Just mean, and nasty.

I called him today, to ask if he wanted me to pick the kids up, or if he was going to drop them off tonight. This turned into a rampage on his part. He did not 'realize' that I was not getting them at the same time that I would have. I told him it was what WE had decided, that he would keep the kids longer tonight, since I was going to have them tomorrow. He said it did not make sense, now he has to cancel his 'plans' (keep in mind that he told me a week ago that NO PLANS would ever be more important than being with his kids....)

I told him I was sorry, but we needed to be able to talk about these things, not have one of us in a 'mood' unable to express what they actually want. He hung up on me. I called him back, and said that I would pick them up at 6. He told me, "thanks a lot, I canceled my plans, and now I could have had them!" I told him that if he wanted the girls longer, he could just tell me. He said no, pick them up.

I get to his house, and he is trying to act all nice. Like he was just not a raving loon. So I said, "I am really regretting that we decided on liberal joint custody, if this is how it is going to be. I do not need or deserve your treatment."

His reply?

"you must be ragging it. You are being so sensitive."

So my girls come outside and they go to the car. WH helps get them in, then he comes up to me and says, "Your eyes look smaller. Oh, it is just the wrinkles around them. You look older."

I look at him and say, "why would you even say anything like that? I could comment on your appearance, but I am not going to."

He said, "I am just saying what I see. Gee. Are you sure you're not ragging it?"
I get in the car, and he says "wait! Well, be careful in Las Vegas. Give me a call before you go." I just looked at him, said bye, and drove off.

Why the heck would I call him, or answer ANY of his phone calls before my trip, or during it???? I do not want to be upset by him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

In two more days I will be in Vegas! I can't wait!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He's pissed you are going to Vegas, sweetie. Its painfully obvious. And I'm loving it. He's feeling like crap and he wants you to feel that way, too, hence the insults. From now on, when he makes them, say NOTHING to him. Do NOT respond at all. Ignore it. He's a gnat.

Do you have a cell phone? If so, expect unneeded phone calls and txt messages while in Vegas. Expect calls for 'emergencies' that aren't and for questions that he knows the answers to already or could have asked the grandparents. Just giggle when you see him calling.

Expect him to suck up to you and interrogate you at the same time when you get back. You'll see even more of his push-pull crap in the next few weeks. Absolutely guaranteed.

OH-- DONT CALL HIM BEFORE YOU LEAVE FOR VEGAS!

Mojo-

Sigh. I just wish it was over already. I am tired of him, and having to deal with him!

No, I am not going to call him, nor am I going to answer his phone calls... There is no reason too. He has what he wants, and I am having what I want now...

I have my sister watching the kids, and my parents are going to help her if she needs it... that is what I think pissed him off too. That I did not need him to help with them. That I covered it.

He is going to realize that he IS not my live all end all, and that I AM going to move on.

Another funny thing- he asked he AGAIN who I was going with. I have told him the same person, EVERY TIME, and he still keeps asking me. Like he is going to 'slip me up' and I am going to suddenly say that I am with someone else. I want to say to him, no honey, I am not a lying sack like you, I have nothing to hide, never did, never will!

WH. Where is that fly swatter! LOL!

Wow, that's definite Taker-Talk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

My suggestion: you don't need to call him. But, you can sweetly answer his calls, let him know what great time you're having (if that's the case), and thank him for his concern. If he asks if you're with the same person, don't sigh mentally roll your eyes at him - simply respond in the affirmative, as if you didn't really think much of the question.

MIM-

Yes, it is taker talk!! I feel like I have been a doormat for so long, that I had lost focus of me, what I needed, wanted... I was SO RESPONSIBLE. For so long.

Now it is time for me to enjoy myself too. So that I am happy. He is in the mode now, now that the D date is looming, to lash into little anger fits at me. He has been trying to ruin my mood lately, and I had been doing fine. Until this last Fri. I had plans, he had the kids, and he wanted to fight with me. He upset me, after he was gone, and I LET him get to me, something I had not been doing so much of as of late. Then the other day with the kids, he got to me.

My point in saying this is that I KNOW that I have to stay away. I have to keep away from him, his phone calls, because his plan is to upset me. I know this now, and I want to avoid this at all costs!

I was trying to say that he has his freedom, he has been enjoying it, I want to enjoy mine too!

Well, my plan to avoid his phone calls failed. He called tonight and my oldest D answered. I did not even hear the phone ring. She came downstairs and gave me the phone. It was him. He acted all short (like he does when his newest woman is there) and I said, "Well, I have to go, I am getting the girls ready for bed." He said OK, and that was that. So it was not too bad.

But I will admit. It annoys me. It annoys me when he calls to talk to the girls, and he ASKS to talk to me, and it is SO obvious that someone is over at his house. Like he is putting on a show about how he calls the girls, and he is short with me. It annoys the heck out of me. So, I just tell him I have to go, and I get off the phone.

I have come to the realization that this is what I struggle with from time to time: whenever I was in a R before, and it was over, it was OVER. I did not have to deal with the other person anymore. They were gone. And since I have kids, he will not just be gone. I will have to deal with him on some level for years to come. And that is my struggle. That I do not want to deal with him, I want to forget about him. But since we have kids, and the D is not final, I cannot just disappear yet. And it sucks. I honestly look at him, and I do not even feel like I know him. I get annoyed that I have to deal with him. I want to just close that chapter in my life. And I can't. It just does not seem fair to me.

But, I know that life is not always fair, and I know I have to be mature about this, and deal with it. I just get annoyed by it too.

I had to get that little rant off of my chest, the next three days are a WH-free zone! I am going to have fun, relax, and enjoy myself. I deserve it!

Sadmo, I've read about how folks use an intermediary in Plan B, to avoid the heartache that you're talking about. Is there a neighbor that H can drop the kids off with instead, and then you can pick them up there? A family member that you can communicate about parenting stuff with H through, like a filter who will keep out the shots?

Have you thought about going to Alanon, and working the loving detachment idea presented there? You are so grounded all the time, are you already doing this?

This whole freeloader mentality he shows now, was that always a part of him? Or is this just WS/addiction mentality that he's protecting this new lifestyle with?

What if these things that WS is showing you are just temporary, and your real H is down in there somewhere? And that the continued contact with you is just more for the WS to hold down your real H with?

That was classic verbal abuse! I do hope that you realize that!

How low they can go, amazing!!!

you are doing the right thing! Take care of yourself...are you sure that you want to deal with him and joint custody like that????

you mentioned it but was that out of frustration, reaction to his comments???

You're doing great with those girls, and you know that's not the truth! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I saw Goddesses!! LMAO

Ears-
Thanks for the comments. Do you or anyone know of a good site for loving detachment? I think that that would help. With WH, and my sister, who I am realizing now is an alcoholic. I did not see it for a long time, and now it was obvious.

Well, I went to Vegas, had a GREAT time, WH only called one time, which was after our D's orientation at school, so that was fine.

But, I came home late last night, and my house was TRASHED. It literally looked like it had been ransacked.
There was a message from WH, on voicemail saying that he had been trying to get a hold of the girls for hours, and it was going right to VM.

It was late, I figured I would talk to him later. My girls seemed fine. I went to bed. 2 hours later, I get a call (at 5) from him. Wanting to know 'how his girls are' he was worried, etc. I told him that I was there, all was fine, if they were not fine, I would have called. He said he was sorry for waking me, and I got off the phone.

He then called me later 2 times, I was not home, he did not leave a message. He called this evening, and I answered.

He wanted to say that he does not want my sister to watch the kids anymore, he wants them in daycare. He expressed his concerns, I told him I understood. The WHOLE TIME he is using his 'business voice' with me. Which, tires me. So I said that I would let him go, and then he tells me that he wants to watch the kids for when I go to work this weekend, "But he has something he wants to talk to me about." I asked him what, said that I did not care to go to work upset or annoyed.

So he tells me that he is 'officially' with OW #2 or #3. And that he wants to 'talk about having her around the kids."

I told him that if he did not have the time to talk tonight, that I would not have time to talk to him before I went to work.

He said, "well, I told you I would let you know when I got serious with someone. I am going to talk to you more tomorrow in the morning."

I told him no, there was nothing to say, and he got off the phone. Oh, he told me that he was sure I would like her. I told him I had no interest in meeting her.

And the sadness/fury/anger/disgust/hate/grief hit me.

All I could think is that I DO NOT want to talk to him, I do NOT want to deal with him. I do NOT want to see him, put on the show that I am cool with what a loser he is. I do NOT want to be friendly with him. I want him to be OUT of my life, and he won't be, and it is so unfair to me. That he just moved on like nothing, and I did not meet anyone that I would want to move on with. That I do not have the time to even really be with someone else. That I do not have much opportunity to even MEET someone else.

Do not get me wrong, I do not want to be back with him. What hurts is that he just got over me so fast... and was able to move on so easily. That he did not grieve for me. That he grieved more for OW # 1 or #2 ( I am not sure).

I just wish that I could just move on so easily. I wish that I even had the time TO meet people. It makes me sad in a way. I do not want to skip time with my girls to 'date'. It would be good for them, considering that now my little one is dealing with the 'loss' of her dad. (She is now totally aware that he does not 'see her' all of the time.
I don't know. I am just feeling down. Maybe it is post vacation withdrawl. Maybe it is a combo. But all that keeps screaming in my head is, "I do NOT want to deal with him!"

I sent an e-mail to my lawyer. With a few changes on the divorce settlement. I reiterated that I do not want any delays, the sooner the better. Right now, I am looking at Sept. 17 th. I PRAY that WH will sign the papers. He is balking BIG TIME on the whole CS being taken out of his check... I want it OVER, so I could cut him off, without the fear of financial repercussions!

Don't do that to yourself...I'm there with you...thinking that I'm so how less then the others...but the thing is WE don't get to see that...whether they are unable to express this or not...they stuff, and stuff and stuff, failing from one relationship to the next...never learning where they are going wrong...

It's not that he/they have gotten over us, is that they have not dealt with the grieve, pain, b/c they can't...

You or I are not less than...we are equal too! JMHO, but this is a major DJ...and I'm guilty...guilty of abusing myself the same way!

There's LOTS of things that WE are NOT going to see! We do not know what they are experiencing!

Please don't do that to yourself...you will find yourself in the rut that I was in the past few weeks...slowly slipping into a depression, day by day...

Do you honestly wish you could move on so easily? I have thought about it, and I'm sure that I could IF I wanted the same thing that I got before! BUT I don't...I want to learn from my mistakes, own my part, do right by my boys and not subject them to partner after partner...I would better for myself...I respect myself more...

Do you honestly think that he is honesting his body? Respecting himself? LMAO...has intregity?

I AM where you are...not wanting to deal with HIM...so you are not alone LAdy! you'll be okay...keep your head up...and work on the negative messages that you are sending yourself, k? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Glad you enjoyed the vacation!

Rin-

Thanks for the reality check... I was slipping into a 'mood'...

I know what you are saying. No, I would NEVER, EVER, subject my girls to an endless string of men. It just is not in me. My little one is so shy, and so hurt now when daddy does not visit, or call her... I could not have her, either of them, getting close to a guy that I may not even want to see in a month or whatever.

Plus, I never was the jump from man to man type of girl. I was fine by myself, fine with someone.

I know, I do not know WHAT he went through, or how he is feeling... I just know what I PERCEIVE that he felt. And the saddest I EVER saw him was after the one chick broke up with him. For real. And it bothers me.

I am trying to get my house in order, I just was slipping a little...

Glad I could help, LMAO, Been there recently...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

....because?

Probably the fantasy bubble cannot be sustained. He may ONLY feel good when he is IN LOVE. Wouldn't that SUCK, to only feel good when every emotion is hightened, when you are HIGH? I tell you what, I love that I can look at a sunset and feel joy, just from how beautiful it is. I'm glad that the precocious things my son says, send me into fits of laughter. I'm glad that I can sit in a room ALONE, and feel comfortable, happy.

I've worked on detaching for quite some time now, and it is beginning to take hold. I'm beginning to understand.

I agree with Rin, don't do this to yourself. You are of great value, as we all are. Never compare yourself to others; it's serves no real purpose but to make you feel small, because we make assumptions that aren't REAL.

I would advise that you begin to learn how to detach from your WH. I would also advise, post D (since you HAVE to wait) to go to Plan B. Your children are seeing these interactions and learning BAD things from them.

Ask yourself this, if your WH has truly moved on, then why does he keep hounding you, calling you, looking for approval from YOU? Hmmmm, interesting, at least to me.



No you don't know. Are you sure he's not STILL going through some kind of crisis in wayward world? He seems lost to me, according to what you report here. He's only happy when he's WITH someone. That's not the mark of a recovered person, at least, not from what I'm experiencing.

Hang in there, Sadmo. Continue working on yourself, working toward inner peace and happiness; working toward detaching in love. Shift focus from your WH and center on yourself.

I've seen Soberrecovery.com highly recommended.

You may see a lot of that, where he is grieving over something else, when really it gives him a safe place to work through his grief for your relationship, which he lost from his own choices. It would feel safer to work through grief that he's not as responsible for.

Don't wish for consequences for him, Sadmo, they will be huge. So huge that you will need loving detachment to not become enmeshed in it. To not fight to save him from it.

Hang in there, Mo, you can do this!

SL-
You know what? You are RIGHT. Your are totally correct. It would be sad to only feel when you are high on whatever emotion it was. I am trying to detach from him, but he is starting to resist now. But I cannot help how HE feels, I just know how I feel. And I HAVE to detach COMPLETELY from him.
I do not really know what triggered my slip, but I was slipping... I am good again, so that is good.

Ears-
Thanks for the website... My sister, who watched my kids while I was gone (a BIG mistake) drank a bottle of vodka (wine sized), a bottle of rum, a bottle of Malibu rum, and I just found ANOTHER bottle of vodka hidden. I felt ill... I had my kids around her, and I did NOT have a CLUE that she drank that much. I felt SO BAD that I left my kids with her while I went to LV... Thank GOD they were all ok... I WAS SO UPSET with her and MYSELF for not knowing that she drank that much....

I think you are right also, that he uses other things to grieve OUR loss. I am not wishing consequences on him, he is feeling them (money, depression, feeling 'left out') right now. He did not seem to realize that life was not going to be just a huge bowl of fun after he left!

I have been trying to distance myself from him... and he is TRYING to ensnare me with things...
EX. he called to tell the girls goodnight. I let my oldest answer, he talked to her, then wanted to talk to me. He told me he is not feeling good. He is having chest pains. I told him to go to the doctor. He said he should. Then he sighed. I let him talk to our younger D. She gave me the phone. He said, "I am scared that this may not just be stress chest pains." I told him to go to the emergency room if he thought that, or I would call 911 if he wanted... He declined. I got off of the phone.

His fear is that he will die young, like his dad did. His father died of a heart attack. When he was with me, he did not smoke, he ate relatively healthy, he went for regular doctor appointments... now he is eating what he wants, is smoking a lot, not going to the doctor... And he KNOWS that I still care for him, and he is trying to get me in the 'rescuer mode'. I can't anymore. He is not my H, he is a man that did not want to be with me. I do worry about him, but it is not my place to. As the saying goes, "God helps those who help themselves". I will admit, it is HARD. Hard for me not to rush in and help him. But, he has his new OW, let her fix him.

Yesterday was my D's first day of school. WH called and asked if he could meet us there. He did. He then got all chocked up, and sad. Because "our baby is in school now". When we left, he walked out with me, and said, "can I have a hug?" I hugged him, partly because I was feeling melancholy, and partly because HE seemed sad. He whispered in my ear, "Thank you." I said for what? He said, "for giving me two beautiful girls." I said, "see, I was good for something!" He looked all serious and said, "You were good for a lot of things." He then said, "I love you." I said, "who are you talking to?" He said, "You. I love you. Thank you."

Okkk.... I told him to get back to work.

Then today, I was dragging the rest of the tree that fell down a few weeks back out of my back yard, and I see WH drive by. He pulls up, and I ask him what is up. He says, "I would have done that!" I said, "well, I checked the temp. of [email]h@ll[/email], and it still was pretty hot, so I thought I should take care of it!" (he had said he would take care of it for me). He then lurked. The girls were thrilled to see him. He lurked. Then he said that he better get back to work. The thing is, he does not work in my neighborhood, I think that he was checking up on me!

The date should be next week. I think that his choices are suddenly hitting him, and he is getting depressed. I cannot help him out. He will have to become stronger on his own.

As for me, I am doing ok now. My girls are doing ok, I am going on with life. So that is good.

Rin, thanks for checking in too!

Just my POV, but he's got some regrets! Oh, well, should have thought about that before he screwed up!

You know that Tody Keith song, I think, where it says that's not my truck in the drive...

It's really sad...as much as I love POWS, that's not enough for me anymore...

Great to hear that you are doing well! Me TOO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i'm in the countdown adn praying, praying, praying, that NOTHING happens to this court date! Thanks again for the prayers....SOOOO appreciated!!!

I agree with this. Go to Plan B, even if you have determined that you don't ever want him back. Otherwise until you've fully detached, you'll be triggered by contact with him, and it will make you nuts.

"It's just too painful for me to be around you when I know that things could be so different. I'm determined to be a business-like co-parent, but otherwise I would prefer not to have any contact with you."