Owl, I just checked the bottom of the GQ menu page and see:

"33 registered and 88 anonymous users are browsing this forum. "

There are a substantially higher number of people who lurk than ever actually participate on all of the forums.

There are archived posts that go back for years just a click or two away.

I don't have a former username to be recognized.

What I do find very interesting, is that this specifically became a focus.

To what purpose?

I haven't been rude. Haven't been trollish. Haven't posted anything that was anti-MB. Haven't been disruptive.

So why would that get translated into something suspicious?

You're obviously, intentionally, dodging the point. Good posting to you.

But I did not dodge your question.

I wrote:
>>>"33 registered and 88 anonymous users are browsing this forum. " There are a substantially higher number of people who lurk than ever actually participate on all of the forums.

[color:"brown"]
I am one of those lurkers.
[/color]
I wrote:
>>>There are archived posts that go back for years just a click or two away.
[color:"brown"]
I have spent time reading in the archives.
[/color]
I wrote:
>>>I don't have a former username to be recognized.
[color:"brown"]
And here I clearly said that I don't have a former username for you to recognize.[/color]

I understand questions of suspicion when a new poster is being disruptive or anti-MB. It's a way to deal with troublemakers.

However, with the high lurker to poster ratio (33 posters to 88 lurkers earlier - almost 3 times the number of posters) and the easy availability of the archives - I thought it was odd to suspiciously question a new poster's knowledge of the participants as if something nefarious was being perpetrated.

Which is why I asked to know what the purpose of the question was.

It reminded me of something my fellow southerners do at times. You can be discussing some topic of interest amongst a group in a social situation and for no apparent reason someone who doesn't seem to care much for your personal contributions to the topic will say, "Who are your people?"

And you don't get the impression that they're really interested in your genealogy.

no thanks, I'm fine with the way things are

enjoy your day graplin

Okeydoke. You too!

~~anywho~~

thanks Suzet* for starting this thread
I enjoy talking to you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Pep, I enjoy talking to you too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep, I want to ask you a question about something that is unrelated to the discussions we had yesterday on this thread. I wanted to ask you about it for a while now, so if you don’t mind I will do it on this thread now:

A while ago on my “update” thread, you’ve asked me about adoption. I replied to you and said that me and my H’s deepest & strongest heart desire is still to have our own biological child if possible, to see ourselves unified together in that child, to have that extension of ourselves genetically, to experience the wonder and miracle of it. We have thought and talked about adoption and we think if we try the infertility treatment later this year and it’s unsuccessful, we might consider adoption as an alternative in future. It's now approximately 7 years since we had discovered the infertility problem (we will be 11 years married this year). However, our strongest wish, desire and prayer is still that He will make a miracle happen for us (a biological child), but if that’s not His Will, I’m sure He has something else in mind for us...and probably adoption might be the answer.

So Pep, my question for you is this:

Before you’ve adopted your children, did you and your H also had such an intense desire for a biological child together (as I’ve explained above)? And if that was the case, did the adopted children totally replace that desire or was that longing still there even after the adoptions?

There have been times where I was wondering if I’m wrong and self-centered to have this expectation from God to answer me and my H’s hearts longing/desire in a way we want it to be e.g. a biological child together...to want something that we maybe can’t have and is not “destined” for us.

WoW


This is a fully-loaded question.

did you and your H also had such an intense desire for a biological child

the intensity of your and your H's desire is difficult to measure and compare --- we did have a desire, to be sure --- from your description, it does seem you (as a couple) have a stronger desire (like I said, hard to measure)

I will say, when we got married a little late in life (he was 30 I was 31) we thought we'd have one bio child and adopt one .
So the adoption thought was already there for us, side-by-side to the bio child.

did the adopted children totally replace that desire or was that longing still there even after the adoptions?

for me, no, not totally.
for my H, yes
I still had a desire for (believe it or not) the pregnancy and childbirth experience --- the actual child as a family member --- we were both satisfied

I would become sadly emotional at movies/TV where a woman gave birth and was handed the newborn to look into the baby's face for the first time

it was that experience I longed for --- and never had

There have been times where I was wondering if I’m wrong and self-centered to have this expectation from God to answer me and my H’s hearts longing/desire in a way we want it to be

I understand. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really understand.

I don't think God minds that you want a child the way you want a child.

There is self-will involved, to be sure.
There is also {Thou shall not covet} .... which is what I did when I wanted other women's birth experience , I won't lie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One of the hardest things to pray is:

Thy will be done .... and mean it ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am happy to discuss this further if you like.
Digest this first.

Thanks

Pep, thanks for your feedback on my questions...and thanks for your willingness to participate further in this...

I have a religious struggle regarding this issue...and regarding God’s “Will” in this regard... I have already touched on this topic a while ago on the In Recovery Board with two members...but I think it might be more helpful for me to speak to someone who has actually been there and has probably experienced similar struggles regarding this issue.

I’m not going to touch on these issues right now (it’s a bit busy at work at this stage and during the coming weekend and evenings I will not be around on the boards), but I want to speak with you about it some time. When I do I will continue on this thread.

Thanks again Pep and blessings. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It turns out you ask me this question today

July 12th
my DD's 18th BIRTHDAY

and I was not with her when her head was born
when she took her first breaths
when she had her first immunizations

we met when she was 8 months old

it was love at first sight
she reached out her fat hand and touched my cheek and we maintained eye contact as if we were glued heart to heart

Suzet* ....our daughter is one of the most beautiful young women you will ever see (no joke, she is uncommonly gorgeous)

she is my daughter
we are bonded

she looks NOTHING like me

she has another mother
one who was not 'able to function as an adult' ... in so many ways

thank God, her other mother did not abort her ~ and for that I am humbly grateful ~ with that moment of *grace* on her birth-mother's part she (the bio mom) and I are connected

our son, is 21
he and his sister have the same birth mom

son has no interest (so far) of finding bio mom (calls her names)
daughter has some interest, but my sense is that it is mostly curiosity to see what she looks like

daughter looks like my husband (really!)
son looks like me (but handsome)

I have no doubt (ZERO) that these were God's gift to us
not to mention our responsibility

son is EMT going to become fireman paramedic ~~~> he has saved many lives .... and I wonder if God gave me this boy to raise so he could save lives ... I try not to get too philosophical about it ... but my H and I have discussed this from time to time

DD is off to see Harry Potter Movie with her boyfriend ~~ when she returns we will do the Birthday Celebration

one gift she is getting is going to be *sigh* tough for me....

Mom died 3 years ago
she left DD a beautiful diamond ring (big one with clusters of diamonds like a grape vine) .... My Mom told me to give this to DD on her 18th B-Day ... and, there is a card with a 'note' that is for DD to read today .... for 3 years I have wondered what Mom wrote.... today (later) is the day

this is what life is
joy and loss
sometimes at the same time

God will be with us today when DD opens the card and the ring box ... and I will cry (I can feel tears building up as I write this)

but these tears will be precious tears

because I know
I am a Mom
I had a Mom

this is God's will

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep...Your story really touched me...

Amongst my father's things, we found quite a collection of stuff that he had accumulated for our DD...Some of it for now, some for later...I hope someday to gain the perspective that you have about it...still too raw for me right now I'm afraid...

I hope that you all have a wonderful birthday evening...

Mrs. W

Blessings on you, Pep, for opening your heart and your home to your children, and providing a sturdy, loving foundation that forever altered their future from a bereft to a bounteous one.

Pep, when I read your post it overwhelmed me. You will truly be called "bless-ed". The "mother" in you shines in your post when you speak of your children. You're an awesome woman and I value your wisdom and opinions (and humor!). Your children are blessed to have you as their mom and will benefit for the rest of their lives that God chose you to be their mom.

I know you didn't get to experience their birth, but perhaps when they have children, you will get to experience the "joy of birth" when you first hold that precious grandchild. I'm a grandmother 3x with a 4th on the way and I can tell you that there is nothing more special than the feelings between grandparents and grandchildren.

((Pep))

Dear Pep...

I’ve just read your story...

“we met when she was 8 months old

it was love at first sight
she reached out her fat hand and touched my cheek and we maintained eye contact as if we were glued heart to heart”

So beautiful...

I’m in tears... I feel so overwhelmed and touched by your post. At the same time my emotions are so mixed (and confusing to me) right now... And I don't know why...

Thanks so very much for sharing your heart and story with me Pep. Thanks for opening yourself up this way... It means a lot...

I believe what happened yesterday (asking those questions on the same day as your DD’s 18th birthday) was no coincidence. God wants to tell me something through your post...I can feel it...

Maybe He wants to tell me that I must start really trusting Him and start really believing with all my heart that He does have a good purpose for this problem in our lives just as he had for you and your H... I'm not sure...

But I do know this: After I’ve read your post, my religious “struggles” and questions regarding God’s will in this regard suddenly seem so unimportant and insignificant...

I’m sure the moment you have given that ring box and card to your DD last evening...and has read that words in the card with your DD for the first time...must have been one of the most overwhelming and precious moments for you Pep...and I’m sure it was for your DD too...

(((Hugs)))

if it feels like you are grieving a loss, that's probably what it is

I do understand

"It's not fair" "This is not what I want" are our measurements .... and not usually part God's plan (I found out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Aloha Pep,

I always enjoy your 'silly way of helping'. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Btw, I w/b sending you a reply this evening. I sent 3 packages and hope they make it. Will give details on the e-mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

aloha,
L.

No email yet... waiting....