7/21: update - wife left - please scroll down and see post i made regarding that

where i'm at as i don't think i ever saved my timeline as a sig. age is low 30s for both spouse and i. we're about 8 months after d-day when i found out wife went on a few dates with a coworker which i knew about but slept with him on the 3rd. it was the whole textbook case, not happy, wanting to move out for time to think, etc. went thru the surviving book and then emotional needs and had started love busters. recovery seemed to be going awesome after initial resentment of nc. thankfully in my case the om cut off contact with her so that was a blessing. better marriage then i ever could have dreamed. anyways my wife went to a bar with girl friends from work for the first time and ended up kissing another guy. this guy has her cell #. she has no desire to contact this person anymore they talked on phone a few times since it happened. anyways we've switched cells so i have it now and waiting for him to call. do i just say something like please don't call again - do i be real aggressive. am i really stupid for wanting to work on things again? and make our marriage the best it could be.

It sounds like it is your wife that has most of the problems here. She obviously did not learn about boundaries and how to avoid affairs and what got her into trouble in the first place.

It is inappropriate for your wife to be going to bars without your. She needs to know that she can not have intimate friendships with people of the opposite sex.

She may need some individual counseling to work through what is causing her to choose to behave as she has.

Keep working through "Love Busters" together and try to spend 15 hours of time together each week.

thanks for taking the time to reply trix. i definately agree about boundaries. she even calls herself very rebellious and we do try to poja. in this case i still wasn't enthuisastic about her going but asked her to txt me updates. i thank God that another married co-worker was there to provide a bit of a guilty conscience as my wife said she probably would have built up to sex if not for her. i didn't want to order her not to go as then she'd be resentful. it was kinda no-win. i know i am some to blame as i haven't been very pleasant to be around lately. the om just called and i didn't answer. guess i'm kinda scared.

Well, now you've identified that your wife does not have good boundaries. And she's admitted it, telling you that it would have led to sex.

So, at this point your FIRST step is to make it clear...she knows she can't trust HERSELF going out to bars and such anymore. So, she now needs to avoid situations where she'll be tempted. Step one.

Step two. Build up those boundaries. She knows that she's tempted, so you need to show her where she needs to STOP things at before it hits the temptation level. Sit down and talk about them. Go to marriage counselling and hammer them out together.

Find out WHY she's allowing herself to behave so terribly. And start taking action to help her fix that part of herself. COUNSELLING...both IC and MC.

And you probably need to start worry less about her being resentful...and start being a little more resentful of HER actions yourself. Why do YOU tolerate it? That should be a focus of YOUR IC, methinks.

You need to set your boundaries and stick to them.

Work on making yourself better and nicer to be around - Plan A.

Next time OM calls you need to man up and talk to him. My guess is he doesn't know the woman he kissed is even M. Tell him straight out that he is calling a M woman and that you, the H, will not stand for it. That is all you need to say. Then change your cell numbers.

thanks everyone. i really don't know how to multiquote so i'll comment in general.

owl:she told me that she agrees she doesn't have willpower to go into a bar anymore without me like some women might be able to do. personally i think it's just asking for trouble. our mc ended in disaster with counselor accusing my wife of being bipoloar or borderline after we just returned from a trip to jamaica and she was talking a lot. she's been going to ic for a long time, not sure of effectiveness but there's obviously a new purpose now. my wife says she feels a need to get validation from other guys in particular about how she looks. this came from out of the blue, it wasn't something really building up. i guess i am tolerating it by staying married to her.

Maybe2late: that was her main reason that i was miserable for last two weeks instead of fun. i see how that could push her away. great idea about changing the numbers. i'll answer next time he calls. i am pretty sure she told them she's married and this older divorced man obv didn't care. maybe he was just wanting sex.

also my wife told me that i am the kind of person she imagines growing old with unlike these other two people who "don't hold a candle to me". it doesn't make sense except they must have met ENs that I hadn't - except not sure how that works with a ONS?

AtoB,

""she agrees she doesn't have willpower to go into a bar anymore without me like some women might be able to do.""

WHAT THE HECK??? So is she a borderline NYMPHOMANIAC? Willpower to stop from doing what?? Jumping the first guy that approaches?? Getting drunk and jumping??

Is she an alcoholic?

kirk

"the om just called and i didn't answer. guess i'm kinda scared. "

finish the thought

I'm kinda scared of ________

oh Pep - your good.


You M your wife when she was 19 - right? Are you the only one she has "been" with? Many times here when someone M at a young age they feel like they missed out on dating around and experiencing other people. THAT IS NO EXCUSE for an A though just an observation.

I know the quality of counselors can vary, but did your counselor say the equivalent of "You're talking a lot and therefore you're manic depressive"? Why would a possible diagnosis end a session in disaster? Was the counselor questioned about the diagnosis, or did the interaction screech to a halt?

If you don't have or were not given reasons for the counselor beliefs, I would strongly urge you to contact the counselor yourself and ask for details.

Bipolar disorder can exacerbate excessive sexual behaviors and it can make a difference in your chances for marital success to know whether this diagnosis is true and if so to get treatment.

AshestoBeauty,

If you try to keep her home by sniffing at her heels, I can guarantee it will blow up in your face. A woman with her ADMITTED history and male attention seeking psyche can not be kept under wraps. It would only be a lesson in frustration for you and an ego boost for your WW as she watches you destroy yourself trying to chase off every man that she desperately needs to attract.Unfortunately, the prettier the girl the more insecure she is.

I suspect that you let her back in way before she suffered the consequences of her actions with the first A.

Work on yourself as a self confident man and father. She will do what she wants when she wants.

Best of luck

thank you to everyone for their time...

krusht: before the original affair, sf would be like about every 10 days. now it's multiple times a day almost every day. borderline nymph - maybe. there's other things involved she has said to me about sf. we never drank anything until after the a, maybe a couple times a month, we may have a couple of wine coolers while we play a game which is enough to make her topsy.

maybe2late: we were both virgins when we met in highschool and dated steady. until the a, there was no one else for either of us. you are definately right about your idea.

graplin: we did take computerized tests as basis which showed her as having bipolar or borderlinetraits. her ic said if that is true, she is the highest functioning person with those attributes he has ever seen. the ic also doesn't like labels. we didn't get good feelnigs from our mc lady and it was her approach that was bad. trying to set up the diagnosis thru me.

pep: confrontation

cymanca: she's not super pretty (except to me) and has low self esteem from kids constantly calling her ugly growing up. she recently lost a lot of weight and is dressing really nice so i think she's pretty attractive but no knockout. the om refusing to talk to her after the a, probably lowered her self esteem even more. this scares the crap out of me: "Work on yourself as a self confident man and father. She will do what she wants when she wants." as i have no confidence and the latter doesn't seem very pleasant.

om just called 15 min ago. i spoke real quickly telling him i was her husband and we didn't want him to contact her again. i just got off phone with cell company and we have a new number. I DESPERATELY NEED HELP/ADVICE ON HOW TO BE MORE CONFIDENT. this was one of her ens we kinda figured out. not sure it fit in harley's 10, but just a need to be cool/flexible with whatever happens.

Excessive sexuality is one of the primary outward exhibitions of bipolar. Pressured speaking can also occur which is what your MC probably picked up on. Pressured speech is fast, but has detectable differences from the average excited fast speaking.

When in a manic stage, excessive sexuality can occur. In the number of times per day, an increased ease in picking up complete strangers, and increased tendency to perform sexual acts that have til then been outside the sufferer's norm.



Unless the counselor is a psychiatrist then he/she is doing you both a disservice by acting as if what may be a serious disease for your wife as a mere "label".

And if the counselor is a certified therapist telling a patient that avoiding labels is more important than correct diagnosis with available treatment, IMO, is unprofessional. Is this a state certified, degreed counselor, or is it someone with far fewer credentials?

Many bipolars ARE high functioning. They can be some of most productive, creative people you will meet. Depending on the timing of their cycles, they can function quite well for years, until a cycle comes along that has a higher amplitude than any they've encountered.

Look, I don't want to beat you about the head with this. But, I am familar with bipolar disorder. You cannot solve manic-depressive symptoms with Marriage Builders techniques UNTIL the bipolar has sought treatment.

I would encourage you to look into this. If your wife is cycling manic, then you need to be her hero. Would she consider going to a psychiatrist to determine whether or not it is an issue? If not, would you consider consulting with a psychitrist yourself so that you can perhaps determine if it is an issue?

thanks so much for the comments.
MC = L.M.S.W.; Licensed Master Social Worker
IC = have to look up title later but i think he is a Psy D
her mom has borderline and maybe bip tendencies.

it was like our 4th mc session, particularly my wife really didn't like her but i was actually shaking my legs at one point. like nervous movement i do a lot. the counselor tried to make me say jen's talking was making me upset and shaking my legs. she got so upset we left, session was over anyways and didn't go back. i'm so scared too cause i don't want sf to go back to 2 days a month. graplin, i will read up on bipolar, thank you for beating it in. at least you don't need to use a 2x4 on me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> her ic didn't think it would be useful and she's been going to see him for so long she really values whatever he says.

Please,
Find a psychiatrist that is familiar with bipolar disorder and make an appointment for your wife. You have stated many red flags re this disorder. There are many good medications available to control this disorder. It could make a huge difference in her quality of life. My H's OW suffers from bipolar disorder. Therefore, I did a little research about it myself recently. Her communication with my H indicated that she was well controlled under medication. I noticed some characteristics of bipolar when I read their correspondence with each other, but it did seem to be under pretty good control when I met her.
Lake

With gentleness towards you and your circumstances, I'm sure you didn't mean this to sound as off-hand as it comes across to me.

I can only believe that concern for your wife's potential damaging disorder would weigh more heavily than the current level of sexual satisfaction you are enjoying.

The joy of 10 times a day with you now could pale into abject horror if she does have bipolar (with its attendant reckless behavior and poor judgement) and she begins pursuing the same and greater sexual activities with anyone and everyone.

Not only for your sake and your marriage's sake. But also for her sake. Both the risks she might end up taking and the crushing guilt and consequences that bear down on her afterward. Especially when this disease can be treated.

graplin and others, i did not mean to come across so insensitive. i do care more for her well being than my own sf. i have already started reading and will talk to her tonite. we both know she had a previous low drive and her anti depressent meds she used to take hurt things even more so it was more like i was holding out chance that it wasn't a serious problem but just a problem in our marriage.

I didn't think for a moment that you did. And if you've been in a sexually starved marriage, it's understandable to feel great about finally hitting the jackpot and hesitate about rocking the boat.

I pray that if it is true, that she will be open to addressing it, rather than denying or avoiding.

Also, were you the poster who asked about ways to become more "manly"?

more confident in general. i always doubt myself. that i'm ugly, not smart enough, people don't like me, second guess if i said/did the right thing...

Okay. Well, I'm going to throw some things at you and you tell me what you think. (These aren't in any particular order.)

1. Get in shape. Join a gym and weight lift , find a sport you can play - do something to build muscle, breathe deeply, exert yourself. Feeling *strong and healthy* physically comes shining through in all your interactions.

2. Dress well, be clean . No, I'm not saying you have to have the latest fashions or walk around in a 3-piece suit. I am saying, don't run around in stained t-shirts and ratty jeans or sweat shirts and running pants. Being dressed presentably and smelling good means that you won't have to hide on the edges or feel uncomfortable about your physical presense in public.

3. Get a hobby or outside interest. This does not mean watching sports on the tube nor does it mean something that becomes a financial and time-away-from-the-family sinkhole. Preferably something that involves other men. Radio control airplanes, bowling, ham radio, fishing, business clubs, church men's group, become a Scout Master, build houses with Habitat for Humanity, birdwatching. Something that *you* enjoy AND become knowledgable about and at ease discussing.

4. Look up at least one news article everyday. Preferably some of the more off the wall news items. These are great conversation starters and instead of looking down at your scruffy tennis shoes because you can't think of anything to say, you can look at people and say, "I was just reading the funniest, oddest, strangest, saddest (whatever) thing today. It seems that ______."

5. Make someone else the focus. When you find yourself alone in a group, look around because there's almost always another person just like you standing alone. So, instead of dwelling in the misery of feeling like an outsider, haul your butt over to the other guy and talk - maybe about that interesting news item you read earlier today.

Okay, that's a start. What do you think?