i hate silence ... not that i was expecting a response from ww about the letter ... but i guess i can dream. begining to think as i read about exposure that i made a mistake on the phone being a jerk to the om basically calling him an a$$h--- and that my wife and i don't want him calling anymore. this was last week when she was still fww.

txt conversation (including critiques please)

wife: i read ur note.. but i am confused by it after talking this am. what r u saying? u dont want divorce?

me: i am not interested in divorce ... i married 'for better or for worse' and i want to rebuild our marriage ...

wife: so u called a lawyer & have now changed ur mind. well what if im not interested in rebuilding anything w u? u cant rebuild alone.

me: actually i have not spoken to a lawyer yet. if you want to talk abt divoce, u can talk with him. i only wanna do marriage discussions. btw wanna see the new adam sandler movie? we're thinking of going tonite...

AtoB,

There is a part of plan A that speaks about not being mushy, whiney, clingy, weepy, panicky, blubbery, umm did I say mushy?

Also plan A says to keep relationship talk to a minimum. Now I know she is not there, and it is harder to plan A, but txting and letters that make even you gag, might not be the best thing either.

I would suggest Plan B. Go dark. Save yourself from the pain. Let her burn herself out. You still have your precious daughter. Focus on her, and what is best for her. Are YOU, in this state of dispair, the best thing for her?

""she was proud that she got several offers from the hospital where she works. sigh""

Does this mean what I think it means? Offers for dates or more??

Step back from your sitch, if you can, and read this! How much more self centered can she be??? And you want to continue this relationship??

Sorry, I gotta stop. I may have said too much already.

kirk

kirk - yes i bungled the start. i can do this - a or b. i don't know which. any one else care to comment? focusing on my daughter helped the first time and thanks to everyone i'm making sure she's at my house as much as possible. i feel so much better since this morning when i decided to fight for this marriage and not just do an immediate divorce. like night and day. i still feel sad or angry at times but more in control. i read a lot of the older classic threads here and think i have my head more on straight. i don't know exactly but it probably means people flirt with her a lot. she is self centered.

leaving her family proves it kirk. i want to continue with my recovering wife not this person in a fog. i don't know how to step back objectively. people either tell me - run like ****** or marriage is worth standing up for. can i plan a or b it and then see what happens? this so parallels the first a, it makes me sick altho she doesn't see that. maybe i'm delusional.

ww called me this morning and we talked for 13 minutes. she wanted to let me know she was going to a different [female]friend's house. at some point she said, she'll look into getting an apartment and if it's okay that most of her stuff says at home now. she seemed a bit subdued, but that's probably normal too, i think she misses things somewhat but how could one not. i will see her tomorrow morning as she's coming to the house to pick up our daughter and spend time with her so i don't have to drive 75 minutes out of my way before work. i'll of course make sure my hair's styled and wearing clothes she likes. i'll definately tell her hot her new nose piercing she just got looks. she said she wants to spend as little time at the house in general as possible though...i was quiet on the phone but didn't cry or break down. not sure if i should be upbeat and chipper???

questions:
she said she wanted to look at our finances with me at some point but our schedules don't quite click for a few days - unless i dropped something from my schedule. **not sure if i should be taking her up on every opportunity to be together or staying busy.**

she also wants her laptop - it doesn't set me back as i have a desktop and laptop of my own. i think she'd get really pissed off if i said no, not sure if that battle is worth it or not.

should i tell her any of my feelings if she asks how i'm doing - not sure how the stick works today. today, i just said i'm doing pretty well when she asked. not sure if i should say i'm lonely without you or what.

she also asked for anything i need help with, i'm guessing around the house even. not sure if i should come up with something just to be with her?

I'd say if it belongs to her, then she can take it. If its joint property, then that's more negotiable. If its household property, needed to run the house, it stays because you'll need it for you and your daughter.

As far as "needing help"...I can see this as some prime "PLAN A" opportunities. Tell her YES...and setup things for the two of you to work on jointly. Painting a room, etc... And then when you do it...make it FUN! Use it as a chance to interact with her WITHOUT any relationship talk. When she shows up, make sure you're looking/smelling great. While you're working, crack jokes that she'll like, play around...make it a chance to enjoy working together.

As far as telling her your feelings, be honest. She needs to know how much she's hurting you. Don't harp on the subject, but if she asks, tell her the truth. "I love you, I miss you, and I miss us. I wish this had never happened." And then drop it and don't let it escalate into a fight.

What are her primary emotional needs? Have you read through the EN questionairre and tried to figure those out, and worked on ways you can start meeting them? This all should be part of your plan A.

Also...I don't remember this from your posts...what's the status on exposure? Who all have you exposed to, and asked to help save your marriage? Do they know about this latest series of events?

owl - i think we kinda considered everything we owned to be joint. but she had a laptop she used and i had mine. i obtained it if that matters. it is not needed to run the house as its a luxery. we did the EN questionairre and we kinda came up with a new one for her top: confidence/flexibility (being okay with whatever happens). other top needs (and i need to dbl check) include like rec companionship, sf, and openness and honesty. i will definately see if she'll work on finishing the bathroom with me. we started it a couple months ago and it's languished.

exposure: her parents know she moved out, i tried telling her mom last night it was cause she met someone else. she didn't know that aspect as ww just said she's unhappy. i think her coworker friends know, they don't all approve but she hasn't hidden it. i could do a letter to her job's HR which is at a hospital. i know she's talked to him outside of her scheduled break time and could get cell phone records to prove it but she can counter that she doesn't always get breaks due to not having backup and was just braeking late. i don't even have OM's cell # until aug 5 altho she said she'd give him a letter if i wrote it. also i just have his first name. i can try to find a friendly face at her hospital, but i don't know if they'll give me more info.

well she won't be here in the morning after all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
plan a sucks when you never see the spouse

well she called this morning. is going to get apartment in city about 35 minutes from our house and her job. i guess this is in the same city as the om. she said she is never coming back and if things don't work out with this person that she'll just find someone else. she tells me my waiting is futile. i feel broken like i've lost - game over. i think if she gets a lawyer and fights this then it will be a lot worse financially. i have an attorney appointment today so i can see where i'm at and what likely settlement might be in court and compare that to what she's kinda offering. i don't know what to do. i guess reconciliation always seems impossible but she is telling me i can wait til i'm 60 and i can wait all i want but she's never coming home.

Get a mean azzed attorney and don't let her dictate to you just because she wants to break up your family and act like 16 year old in heat around town.

Don't just accept "what she is willing to offer" Ash.

thanks h&p. i feel so beaten down it will be good to know some facts today. she wanted to talk relationship and i should have left my mouth shut instead of trying to recap the book she used to live and swear by. prolly made her more determined to divorce.

Well, pray for the best, and plan for the worst.

Get a lawyer, protect yourself and your family. Secure your finances, and batten down the hatches.

But...keep up the plan A too.

Getting a divorce takes time...and is going to cost her more than she's likely thought about yet. And during all of this, you can continue to plan A her. Meet what ENs you can, keep up working on your own self-improvements, and take care of yourself and your family. Its very possible that living on her own isn't going to turn out like she's hoping. Living with OM likely wont be that fantasy wonderland she's imagined either. When reality comes flooding in...that's when most waywards begin regretting their choices and thinking about what they've done.

Remember tho that plan A is NOT plan doormat. Set boundaries in what you'll accept from her. Don't be afraid to tell her that you wont accept the way she treats you, etc...

Plan B comes later, when you're falling out of love with her. When your lovebank is starting to go empty.

Remember, this is a marathon....not a sprint. Hang in there.

thanks owl. i appreciate your time reading and posting. i think i can stall out the divorce but i don't think divorce costs matter to her as we have a lot of equity in house that she figures we can pull from. your words have calmed me a lot. i'll do my best.

i'm not sure how to handle things like our family cell plan (in my name) or cars (the one i drive is in her name, the one she drives that's falling apart is in my name). i mean i know my lawyer can tell me what to do or give me options but i'd like some MB guidance in accordance with MB principles. i obv want to protect our money so she can't take it all but do i be a jerk about stuff? she could just take stuff and sell it. do i just have my lawyer make the bare minimum concessions by the law or do i be nice? not sure how to work plan a if i tell her i'm going to be overprotective.

tried to plan a this morning, leaving some candy she really likes with a tiny note saying like 'i saw these in line at store, thought you might like them' ... she wrote no thanks and left them behind. shoulda expected as much i guess. she argued with me for 2 days it was okay for this guy to buy her drinks at a bar even asking coworkers for their opinion yet refuses candy from her spouse.

how does plan a relationship talk work if they bring it up? i shoulda just kept silent i imagine on phone this morning but it seemed like she was tlaking....sigh

i got a phone appt with dr harley early next week ...

OK, you've got to expect something from her...expect NOTHING.

She'll NOT respond positively to any of your plan A attempts. Don't expect any kind of nice response from her on them...but if you DO get them, you know that its getting through to her.

You'll need to walk a fine line here. Leaving candy sounds 'needy'. You need to do the EN questionairre and find what ENs she finds most important, and work on meeting those. Anything other than that will seem to be "too much" for her, and won't have the impact you're looking for.

Make sense?

Usually, once the BS has endured a false recovery, I think that they should go directly to plan B after making the necessary arrangements. ATB, your WW is SO deep in the fog, that a continued plan A will do little more than enable your WW's affair. Your plan A has gone on long enough to go noticed, so now is the time for plan B. Once she has signed her name on a lease, I would immediately file for legal separation. This keeps her from having access to your finances, and gets you off the hook if she decides to rack up a ton of debt because she doesn't have anymore money. It will also protect your custody rights and keep her from getting back into the house which will help your plan B. I would also include a round of exposure that lets EVERYONE know that not only is your WW having an affair (and has been having one for quite a long time), but that she is ABANDONING her children as well. Then, you go completely dark. This is the only way to save your marriage.

wife's top 5 needs from when we did the surveys:
1. self-assuredness (confidence / flexibility)
2. honesty & openness
3. attractive spouse
4. sexual fulfillment
5. recreational compansionship

she said in our premarital counseling years ago she never found me attractive and that she found beauty on the inside. now she says she was lying all those years that it didn't matter. i got very overweight by the time of affair #1 but have lost 70 pounts and going. i'm 6' 240lbs now. redone my hair, new wardrobe, but i don't think it can match excitement and newness of an affair. not sure how i can meet any of those needs now - she called asking how my lawyer visit went - i let it go to vm.

i live in NY - a fault needed state - so she can't just get a divorce. would have to be legally seperated for a year first. i don't see why i have to sign seperation agreement and wouldn't that postpone divorce forever except to protect house equity.

she originally had a one night stand with a coworker she grew close with and wanted a relationship with but dumped her the next day. this is a new om she just met 8 months later and a few weeks ago. i believe they haven't had sex yet. she doesn't want our daughter - couldn't care for her and work and hard to date if you have a little girl.

i do want to do exposure and need help. she hasn't had the physical affair yet but is on the way. i even found her employee handbook to help with a couple provisions in that.

If you cut her off financially, she might just start racking up massive amounts of credit card debt. You don't want to be on the hook for that. Also, many women don't want to have to deal with a child when they are having an affair, but when it comes down to it, they still won't give up custody without a fight. Lawyers have a way of talking their clients into fighting for the best legal deal possible. You need to catch her before she gets legal advice.

You need to expose this and her previous affair to EVERYONE that knows her. She needs to feel like there is nowhere to run and hide from her affair, and the only way she can save face is to come back to you. You need her hitting rock bottom, having lost everything and everyone. Make sure that when you expose, you let everyone know it is for the sole purpose of trying to save your marriage. You don't want to come off as vindictive.

thanks jim. great point about her talking into another lawyer.

she wants to talk tonite - i'm sure about relationship and what lawyer said. i think she's going to ask for money. left wedding ring at our house.

i need help with exposure. do i give her money and then expose? cause i don't know how to avoid the topic tonite. i don't think she'll lose anyone by exposure. her work knows and a lot are sympathetic to her. she's telling people she's unhappy, not mentioning the fact she's become emotionally (phyiscally if u count a kiss) with another man. can someone please help me write exposure letters. i can do personal and work, but don't know anything about this new OM. i don't know what to write - i am so phsyically drained from driving hours each day and emotionally drained i can't think.

She's already asking for money. This is why you need to strike now while the iron is hot. Consult an attorney on what you are required to give her. I would tell her you aren't giving her a dime until you speak with your attorney. Then you let your attorney tell you your options. You want to give her as little as possible to prevent further enabling her affair.

As far as exposure letters, I would write something along the lines of:

Dear _____,

I am asking for you help. As you may or may not know, WW and I have been having problems lately. Unfortunately, the reason for these problems have been that my WW is having an affair and refuses to end it and work on our marriage. I have been trying to do everything in my power to save our marriage and keep our family together since I found out about WW's first affair. My marriage counselor has recommended that I expose her affair to put pressure on her to get her off of this destructive path. She is abandoning her child and the only man who has truly ever loved her. I am exposing because I still want to fight for her even through this tremendous pain. Please keep us in your prayers.

Sincerely,

A2B2A