I don't believe I have made any excuses for him at all. I have only said that I was trying to work things out in my own head and that I would keep him at all costs away from my children. Believe what you want, but my priorities really are for my children first. Excuses has not been my MO. I have only tried to see if any reconciliation was possible. It doesn't look like it is. The only thing I can imagine that you would think that I was making excuses for him is when I said that there have been more than one professional in the field that has told me that families do get over this. I have tried to see how, but am coming up dry, as I have said.

lamby

I strongly suggest that you do your own research on this "factoid".

Serving time for a crime often points out to the perp just how important it is to be more careful on the commission of their future crimes. A quick internet search for pedophile and "recidivism rate" gives different figures while pointing out just how questionable and how reliable even those figures are.

"(4) the PREDICTION of recidivism, or repeat offending -- Being a heterogeneous group, sex offenders recidivate at different rates, and although their average rate is somewhat high (estimates range from 10% to 66% with 15% being the most popular number based on reconviction rates), perhaps we are not measuring recidivism the right way, or we are basically unable to "predict" re-offending using any known assessment methods. With paper-and-pencil psychological tests, most efforts at prediction tend to make use of the "lying," defensiveness, or social desirability subscales which have limited value. Criminal justice assessment instruments tend to utilize many "risk" and "need" factors which are irrelevant to the special population of sex offenders. Clinical psychology interviewing seems bogged down in the business of diagnosing denial. The truth is we have no valid and reliable prediction instruments, just instruments which mainly assess risk by assigning points on known prior offenses (van Dam 2005), and this includes the RRASOR (Rapid Risk Assessment for Sexual Offense Recidivism) and the Minnesota Child Molester Screening Tool-Revised. It is not uncommon for this area of research to use instruments designed to measure the proclivity toward criminal behavior in general."

and the following from a publication from the US Department of Justice, Center for Sex Offender Management (click HERE for the full article) says:

"Incest victims who have experienced criminal justice involvement are particularly reluctant to report new incest crimes because of the disruption caused to their family. This complex of reasons makes it unlikely that reporting figures will change dramatically in the near future and bring recidivism rates closer to actual reoffense rates. "

Hence, the recidivism rates are based on perps who get re-arrested AND/OR the "predictions" of possible tendency toward relapse based on psychology tests (which can be twisted by the test-taking liars) that were fashioned for criminal behavior in general and not incest specifically.

Let's carry forth your expressed hope for the future and ponder it from the position of the children your husband has molested. They are already going to be torn - feeling responsible for daddy not being home anymore. Kids internalize responsibility that isn't theirs. They may even be able to mentally understand the truth (that it isn't their fault), but that doesn't mean that their emotions will be telling them something altogether different.

If you continue a relationship with this man, here are some of the possible emotional ramifications for your children:

1. It's my fault that mommy has to send daddy away sometimes.

2. What daddy did to me must not have been so bad, otherwise he wouldn't be sitting here at the dinner table with me.

3. If time does blur what happened for your daughter, every time you have to make arrangements for dad to come or go - she gets reminded that something bad happened to her.

4. If he ever does manage to sneak around your protective defenses and molest her again, she is unlikely to speak up about it.

5. If she feels that what he did was bad, then how confused might she be to see him in the home.

6. Incest victims can carry a lot of terribly mixed feelings about what happened to them. It's not the same as being molested by a stranger. When incest occurs the child is sometimes torn between the love he/she has for the parent and the sense that something is wrong.

7. Dad must not be so dangerous or mom wouldn't let him back into the family.

I'm sure it isn't once a molestor, always a molestor for all - but there is no way to determine just which one will always be a molestor.


Sure. But your husband's choices and his ongoing attitude hasn't really left that open as an option.


You must not force your vision of forgiveness onto the children who were sinned against. They may choose to forgive AND never want to be around him again. I believe in forgiveness, but forgiveness does not mean a relationship must continue.

Can you see the possible creepiness of sitting across the table from a man, your own father who should have loved you and protected you, who has experienced sexual knowledge of you and expressed sexual behaviors on you?



Sometimes when something is broken, it can never be restored to its original form. I understand your desire to do the best thing *for everyone involved*.

Your husband is a grown man who made choices with little regard in the interest of your children, you, and your marriage. You cannot place his interests on a scale and attempt to balance them *against* the interests of your children. They aren't adults and they must look to you to protect them. They didn't make the choices that have wrecked your family. Your husband has expressed no true remorse, repentence or even understanding of the depth of depravity that he perpetrated on his children.

You cannot trust any expression of repentence and remorse that he may eventually develop *as his time to be released draws nearer*.

Do not place your sense of loyalty to your husband on a higher or equal plane to the loyalty you must have to your children.

Taken from Criminal sociology resource by Phil Bartle phd.

Paedo is a sickness incurable by all but actual or chemical castration. You're dreaming if you think your h will ever be safe around kids.

I can FEEL how desperate you are for a functional family Lamby but hoping for reconciliation at any level between your kids and their asbuser father is unrealistic IMO.

Your H chose to hurl away "normal" for his family, you should recognise this.

Move on. There are good men in the world who don't abuse children.

Excellent post! Very well thought out and informative. I appreciate the professionalism with which you approached the subject. Thank you.

lamby

excuses are very sneaky and subtle. They have crept into your vocabulary without your being aware that you doing it. Case in point:

You are buying into his alibi. On one hand - your first post - he has no remorse; even in another follow up post, you talk about him knowing your buttons. In this post I mention above, you are doing the classic wife in denial thing - and this was the post that led me to believe that there is a seed of danger for your children and grandchildren... that eventually he will use your empathy for him and belief that there is remorse but lack of understanding... He knows that to be sexual with children is WRONG. And his lack of knowing the harm at the time he was doing it is EXACTLY why he will recidivate. It's why all sex offenders are treated with the severe consequences that they are - first, there's no putting Humpty Dumpty back together again. A child's innocence is a precious thing that makes a childhood. Now they've been sexualized - having feelings they don't understand. They are likely to become promiscuous or perps themselves... Nothing replicates criminal behavior like child sexual abuse.

So stop giving him any slack that says he didn't mean it. Understand the magnitude of every allowance you give him. Your 2nd quote above is disturbing for someone who says she isn't making excuses for him. This one post is a big enough excuse to drive a truck through - or harm a child with.

Look... I am not going to bother reading the whole thread.

If you stay married to a pedophile...then you are, IMO, as bad as him. First of all, he is now being someones sex toy in prison. Pedophiles get that special treatment all the time.

Next, he abused his own child sexually. He is the type of person that freezers and wood chippers were made for.

I really am doubting your story since anyone that wants to stay with a pedophile seems like an alien and a fake to me. If your story is not real...stop f-ing around with this...if it is... stop f-ing around and do what is right. I don't care how long you think you have known this man... he is scum and needs to be away from society.

As far as forgiveness...others can forgive them if they choose to...but that does not mean that they ever have to be int he same room with this dirt bag again. He is a time bomb that will go off and some poor little child will suffer. You can have all the doctors in the world say he is cured and guess what...he should forever be isolated from every child. The prisons are full of people that judges and the courts felt were no longer a danger to society... only to have them proven wrong with horrible results.

YOU should be ashamed of yourself for not distancing yourself from this monster. We are judged by the company we keep....wake up.

Well at the end of the day, if you *want* to stay married, you will. Nothing we say here is going to change that.

Clearly you want to stay married to him, and you want to believe it won't happen again - that's DENIAL.

Would you still want to reconcile with him if he'd raped YOU?

Nevermind - don't answer that, because I think you'd probably excuse that too.

You, ma'am need counseling. Your daughter does too - but don't forget yourself.

Perhaps an IC can help you figure out why your own self-esteem is so low that you think it's worth pondering whether or not to stay with a man who has committed what I believe to be the ULTIMATE crime - sexual assault on a child.

Even in your initial post, you won't come right out and say what he did. You used the term "touching" in quotation marks - like it was pseudo-touching.. "not real". Even phrasing it like that in a euphemism so as not to make it look like it was quite as bad as it was.

HELLO - IT WAS SEXUAL ASSAULT. Sexual molestation. It's a sex crime, and society considers this grievous enough to require offenders to register and restrict where they live.

If the rest of society takes this so seriously, why won't you?

Do you feel that unworthy that you think it's OK to stay with somebody like this?

I can assure you those Thanksgiving dinners will be just you and JW because your daughter and everyone else in the family isn't going to understand, and they will go to great lengths to avoid you.

And your daughter is going to wonder for the rest of her life, why you chose that dirtbag over HER. She's done nothing wrong. She's been a victim, and you are giving aid and comfort to her perpetrator.

Let me tell you - if *ANY* man (or woman) did that to my child, I'd be in jail too because they'd die at my hands because of it. Never mind forgiving and reconciling.

You need some counseling. Find out why you are even considering this. Get yourself to a healthy place and away from this predator, and take care of your family. That man is NOT your family. He may have been the sperm donor that created your children - but he is NOT a father.

JinGA

Pls get away from this man. He is abusing u. and u are abusing yr daughter

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have some time to work on yourself, which is all any of us can really do. I hope you will keep reading here and posting until you understand what makes a great marriage.

Lamby, I’m a survivor of sexual child abuse. My father was one of my abusers (he started “touching” me while I was an infant). Like your H, he also rationalized and justified that he was not "violent" and in stead made it "enjoyable" for me...that at that stage he wasn't aware of the damage it caused...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I think if you can just begin to GRASP what sexual molestation does to a girl and the damage it causes – especially from her own FATHER who is/was suppose to help CARE & PROTECT her from EVIL – then you will NOT consider staying with him or waste ANY further energy on him...and then you will be MORE concerned about your children’s emotional well-being than about your H and M...

You can still continue praying for the salvation of your H’s soul... PLEASE DO THAT! It might help him from committing the same evil crime against other innocent children when he gets out of prison one day...and to hopefully sincerely apologize to your children one day (my father did this to me a few years ago and this was one of the most needed things for my personal recovery and especially for my spiritual well-being and relationship with God since I was not able to fully forgive my father before his repentance...)

Anyway, please UNDERSTAND that molestation by a parent is the WORST betrayal a child can go through... It’s the lost of childhood innocence…which are cruelly STOLEN from a child in the worst way possible e.g. by HIS/HER OWN PARENT!!! Therefore I’m SO glad you’ve discovered this crime towards your children while they are still young...and before it could continue and create MORE damage than has already been done...

Please send your children for counseling (a person who SPECIALIZES in child sexual abuse) and get your H TOTALLY out of your life! That will be the BEST gift you can give to your children. And your children SHOULD be your main concern and priority. IMO, if you should stay married to your H, you will choose HIM (their ABUSER) against THEM and then they will feel betrayed by you as well.

By the way, you have BIBLICAL GROUNDS to divorce your H. What he has done is a sexual betrayal towards YOU too (amongst other things).

Sexual abuse survivor here too and I echo what has been said in this post.

I told my mother my stepfather was trying to molest me and she didn't believe me. I lived around the abuser until I was old enough to get out on my own.

I don't think someone who hasn't been there can comprehend what this does to you. Even though you've stated he won't live in the home with you- your children will always know what he did and that you chose to stay in relationship with him rather than choosing to cut him off for what he did to them. Don't you know that will make them feel so unvaluable to you??

They will see this as you choosing him over them. They will resent you for it. You are their mother and the only one left to protect them and they see you wanting to work it out with the person who injured them for life???

For life. They will never ever be the same. Can they recover?? Yes, but it forever changed who they are or could be.

You can forgive him, they can forgive him, I'm not saying not to- because forgiveness is a gift you give yourself- and you can pray for him, but that doesn't mean you have to be in relationship with him.

My mother forced a relationship with my stepfather on me and I have forever thought she chose him over me. And she did. I resented her for it and it made it hard for me to consider caretaking her when she got ill in her later years. The fact that I was a Christian is the only thing that kept me even in relationship with her, but I cut off ties with him forever.

This is seriously not about your marriage or you. This is about your children who should be the higher priority here. Please reconsider staying with this person and getting your children in counseling.

Thank you all for your input on this topic. I am no longer in denial of JW's actions. He is a pig. I am filing for divorce and asking that all parental rights be evoked from JW forever. Am even thinking of changing the children's names.

lamby

I am glad that u have finally decided. God in his own wisdom will take care of u and repair all the damage done to u and the kids.

ss

Now stick with us, and keep reading here. There is a lot to learn about how to have a good marriage. I'm divorced, and wish I had found this site BEFORE I married. There were a lot of red flags in our relationship, but I didn't notice.

I have been told by psychologists in the field (yes, more than one) that this is a habit that JW can overcome.

How very sad that child molestation is being classified as a "habit".

WOW...I wonder, is rape a habit too then?

Children that are molested are RAPED.

Do you really think that child rapers are suffering from a "habit"?


To maintain a marriage with a convicted child molestor is heinous in itself,especially when you have children.

This wouldn't be a marriage, but a market arena for the molestor to get his stuff to satisfy his habit.

I think I am smelling "troll" because this stuff cannot even be real. NO ONE is that ignorant.

committed

lamby, let me just add my voice right now to the chorus of folks telling you to keep this guy out of your life.

I am a Christian, a Christian who did not believe in D. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it won't happen. You can say you don't believe in cancer all you want, and still get cancer. Just because I didn't "believe in" D did not stop my XH from leaving.

Your H has left. You have fulfilled your commitment. You are now free, just as Jesus said a person whose spouse is unfaithful has permission to D. Well here on MB we still try to save those marriages when possible, but THIS IS MUCH WORSE. You have permission, you have an OBLIGATION...

We can choose our spouses. We cannot choose our parents. I would place your obligation to protect your defenseless children (including your step-D) above any obligation to a pedophile.

Your dream of a happy Thanksgiving where the adult children forgive their abuser... it is THEIR decision whether or not to forgive. You have no right to try to get them to forgive. IMO any such attempts could be harmful.

In fact, I worry about how the victims are affected by the fact that you are wanting to love him instead of being angrily protective of them. I would like to see more of a "mama bear" reaction if you know what I mean. Even with him in prison, how can they feel safe if you aren't more eager to protect them at all costs?

Are they in some sort of [email]ther@py?[/email]

Denial is a difficult thing to understand, unless you have gone through it yourself. For a long time, I simply did not believe it was as bad as it was. Mental and emotional separation takes time. In less than a day, JW was out of the house and has since that day not spent another day in our home. I have protected my children from him and I would never force any relationship on them. I will not speak of trying to make anyone on here try to understand my viewpoint further, as you don't know me and that makes misunderstandings occur more readily. It was like going through the death of a spouse, but the person is still alive. I didn't know how to continue. Now I do. Now I am sure. Thank you to everyone who has helped me to see the truth. Please don't "beat me up" about this. Just because I do things in the kindest, most patient way I could doesn't mean they haven't been done. My anger is very real, but I have suppressed it for the sake of Christ. I know many of you do not understand that, but oh well. I can't help it.

I think we understand and I for one am very happy as to where you are now. See...when it comes to child abuse...there is a reason that people become angry and very pointed in their comments...because, children are in harms way. Rather than get defensive at every person on here..understand where they are coming from. I am an advocate for victims of child sexual assault...I see the damage that is caused. Add your voice to that choir! Actively work with your kids to help them through whatever traumaa they will need to process...and there will be quite a few.
Christ would not have been tolerant of a child molestor. Not for a moment...and neither should you. It is our charge to protect children at all costs. Thank you for getting that!

MEDC

Lamby - stick with us here and we'll help you get through all of this.

Nobody wants to beat you up -the 2x4s you got here were to *help* you see a truth that you didn't seem to want to see.

I'm glad you've decided to take steps to protect your children and yourself - life is bound to get better from here - but there will likely be rough patches.

The good folks here will see you through.

JinGA