Thanks for making me laugh! I always thought I was raising 3 kids, not 2..

Well, he was just here. I don't know what he was expecting. Okay, maybe I do. He was expecting me to give him an okay about seeing OW. Which he didn't..

He sat down here at the computer and showed me the merchant marine stuff. I said, "You know you really don't want to do that. You should come home, we want you here. We all love you.". He kept saying that no, I didn't want him here. I told him basically what you guys said. That we could work things out. He said he did not want to work them out. He wanted to see OW and somehow I wasn't letting him. You're right he is a child. He told me he could do whatever he wanted and that, yes, he could leave me with all the debt/bills.

I planned A the whole time, but I don't know if it got through to him. I made it seem like I was happy he was here and made sure the girls showed him the same. He went to help his daughter play her video game and of course OW calls. He's like, "I'll be there in a few" and then my DD decided to then bring up while he was on the phone the sleepover at HER house he promised her this Saturday. I said, " No, you're not going" where she proceeded to tell me how much she hated me. He came and told me that yes she was going to come over because she wanted to. I was like, under no circumstances is she going over there. Then I let him know I didn't trust the OW and that there's no way she could be a good person and I didn't feel that the kids are safe around her. He rolled his eyes at me basically and got ready to go, telling DD that he would never see her again. He told me to have a good life. I told him, "Be safe babe, we love you" He told me not to call him babe. He tried to put the blame on me for all this happening then told me to go to ****** and stormed off on his bike.

DD is still a little mad at me now, but I pulled her aside and let her know how hard this was to do and that I was sorry, but as a Mommy I needed to know she was protected.

You are a better woman than he is a man. Don't forget your sense of humor, even in times like these it is important.



Mr. G

Yeah, I always say that I find things funny after the fact.

Question though.. WS bribed my daughter with a sleepover at OW's house with her 15 year old daughter. I said no. I keep saying no, but I have a bad feeling that while I'm at clinicals tomorrow he is going to go over to my grandmother-in-laws and go pick her up and take her over there no matter what I say. I keep trying to explain to DD why I'm saying no, but she's not understanding (of course) and I'm trying not to talk badly about WS in front of her.. it just feels out of control. What should I do?

Yikes! I really am not sure how to advise you here. It is a bit outside of my "wheelhouse". I think we are dealing with legal issues and I am reluctant to advise you how to proceed. I think you might have some legal standing but I am unsure. Have you had any success making contact with an attorney?

Are your parents local to the area? Do you have any other family that you can rely on?

How does he even know where the children will be? Don't answer, I already know, you couldn't help but tell him. In the future play your cards close to your chest.

Mr. G

Well, it's his father in laws house where my grandmother in law is staying and they are the only people I know of that could watch them for basically the entire day. Even if I didn't tell him, he would still go by there and check or call them and his father wouldn't lie to him.. Unfortunately, I have no control over that part of it. My parents and I don't have the best relationship and my WS hates them anyway and it would cause more conflict than it is worth.

If he takes your daughter, you probably have no recourse. You might be able to see an attorney and get an order for the kids to be kept away from the OW.

More importantly, I think it is important that you let your daughter know that married people don't have girlfriends, and it is against your morals. That is the lesson she needs to learn.

If your husband insists on dragging your children into his adulterous affair, you may not be able to stop him. But at least you have let your daughter know your stand.

I would also let her know that you have a plan, and that she WILL be staying with you. Kids need to know that adults are in control.

What is happening with exposure to the hospital? Exposure is key.

If you plan on exposing, you need to write a letter. The hospital will only pay attention to a letter, not to your drop-in visit. As others have said, you cannot control the manner of the response to your letter. They may protect her to protect themselves but they may put some pressure on her, by even calling her in and asking her about the situation. Just that would put big pressure on the A.
Lake

Exposure to the hospital is a funny one, let me tell you.

HR never called me back so the best recourse I have RIGHT now is to send that certified letter. It's going out on Monday.

However, one problem. Another friendly warning from the WS, of course. I learned my clinical professor is *friends* with the OW. As in they work together. See miss OW evidentally has a lot of friends. Now, my professor knows that I have this problem going on, but does not know who the OW is other than that she works at the hospital, aka he has no idea that it's his friend. Do I tell him?

I would tell him right away. Tell him that you love your husband and want to save your marriage. Be very calm about it.

Also send the letter.

And since hubby has probably joined the Merchant Marines by now, there won't even be any fallout.

Do you know anything about the OW - like what happened in her last marriage?

Haha. I saw him today, he didn't join the Merchant Marines, of course.

I will tell my professor. I didn't think he would go ballistic on me.. I mean I'm innocent, I would assume.

As far as the OW goes I know she kicked her husband out because he cheated on *her*. They got divorced and got joint custody of their 3 kids. Which makes me wonder why in the world she would be dumb enough to do that to someone else.

Gwyn, I would not allow your children to be exposed to the OW, nor should your H be allowed to speak to that ho in your home. If he does that again, ask him to take his affair conversation out of your house and escort him out.

That should never happen again, Gwyn, that is a gross violation of your boundaries. If you don't protect yourself, no one will.

If you don't take a stand, your children will grow up thinking it is ok to be a ho; that adultery is perfectly fine. It is up to you to ensure they know right from wrong.

((( gwy )))

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this horrid A business, but so thankful that you have come to this Marriage builder - Person builder board...

IF your marriage does not survive (and, almost all affairs do end) - you will grow so much as a person just from reading here...

And ~ you have some of the wisest posters helping you on your thread ! So, please listen to them and try to do as they advise you... they know what they are talking about.

Also, if you get a chance - (and, you have much more on your plate than I could handle, that is for sure) read the Notable Posts are the top of this page... reading and putting into practice just some of the advice there will be life-changing... at least, it was for me...

P.S. Do not tell WH or OW or anyone of their camp about this website... it is your personal ammunition against the affair. ok ??

I will be rooting for you from the side lines...

carnation

Well, as far as the girls seeing the OW, I've found there's not much I can do about it other than of course keep them attached to me at all times which I can't since I'm at school. And you're right.. it's my boundaries. He's the dad, too, unfortunately. So, what can I do, really? I have requested that he watches the girls at the house and he said he would do that for me tomorrow while I am at the hospital. We'll see how that goes.

I pulled my eldest aside and told her in the nicest terms the OW was a bad woman and that Daddy and I made a pledge under God to be married death till us part without any other girlfriends involved and Daddy broke his promise. She understood that finally. Well, I hope.

Gwyn, if that is the case, I would find someone else to babysit them until you can get a legal seperation order in place to protect them. In the meantime, invite him to visit them while you are THERE so you can ensure they aren't dragged into his immorality. We have many people here who have this written into their temporary visitation orders.

You are all they have, apparently, so it will fall to you to protect them from them.

the ow should NEVER see your children....but when push comes to shove...until a court puts that in writing, you have no recourse. He does not need to abide by your wishes regarding the kids...he can introduce them to whomever he chooses right now....it sucks...but it is true. Get the agreement as soon as possible. Any attempt to keep your children from your H could result in him doing the same thing to you... and again...no recourse until a court hears the case.

All of this sucks big time...but do what you can to protect them...see, it is easy to say things like your H can't do this or can't do that...but bottom line, short of physically confronting him, which would be a huge mistake, you really need the help of the courts. The issue here is that he has that trump card that you gave him...

so, you really need to get in front of a bull dog attorney...lay all your cards on the table and take agressive action to get your kids protected.

Gwyn, I've been reading with great interest and heartache on your behalf. I don't think I could manage near the stress you are undertaking -- pregnancy, kids, school, a mountain of debt, health challenges, and a husband not only dragging you through an affair but insisting that the kids visit with the OW!

I have only a few remarks, because you are getting really extraordinary advice from people with tremendous know-how.

I keep asking myself, from a practical point of view, why a divorced woman with three children from a previous marriage would want to pursue a married man who has two small children, and a pregnant wife with health problems, AND she enjoys "rubbing your face in it," so to speak. The only answer I can come up with, is this is a woman who enjoys competition and confrontation with another woman. I honestly believe that YOU are as much entertainment for her as your husband is.

This may seem like a perverse thing for me to say, but it's worth considering.

a) She goes to a lot of trouble to ensure that the two of you meet, at your home ;

b) She has pursued contact with your children, which is humiliating to you;

c) She chose the husband of a student at her hospital so that the encounters would be more frequent.

I honestly believe, GWYN, that in this woman's case, degrading the wife is a major component of her enjoyment. So eliminating that factor to reduce her fun, should become a major factor in your plan.

Anyone else have any ideas about that? Maybe I'm way off base.

I think you're doing a great, GREAT job.

Sweet - I agree. That is how my OW was. She seemed to bask in the drama of confrontation, and gloated that she had my husband. In fact, the affair ended just 2 weeks after the divorce was final.

Honestly, Gwyn, I say this as someone's sister, aunt, mother, daughter, cousin, granddaughter, friend -- I've really been around (and through) the Mean Girl wars!

You are the victim of Queen Bee aggression. This OW absolutely does NOT want your husband, he is a tool! I know that you adore him (when he is in his normal, unfogged, right mind). But trust me, this OW does NOT want to marry a guy who cheats on his sick, pregnant wife, who already has two kids, and a mountain of debt to overcome!

The moment she feels she has emerged victorious, and you are out of the picture (through divorce), she will dump his sorry *ss!

Most of the other posters here have INFINITELY more experience with the Dr. Harley stuff than I have, so they can do that and I'll stick to my expertise on female relational aggression (girl bullying).

There are manipulative women who engage in various toxic forms of aggression against other women NOT for personal gain, but solely to establish authority/power/identity -- whatever. This is a form of bullying.

Right now it seems to you that the affair has to do with your husband. It feels that way to your husband. Really, it has very little to do with your husband, and a lot to do with YOU. (I'm sure that right now, that's of very little COMFORT ... sorry!)

So, what to do?

Right now, the OW/QueenBee has the upper hand because
a) She knows the war/game plan in advance (she establishes it ahead of time with YOUR husband);
b) It's HER game, so she makes a point of appearing cheerful, cool, calm, upbeat, happy, and collected. Always smiling and waving. Gosh, for her this is fun!
c) Every time you appear hysterical, upset, sick, flustered, and unkempt, she fairly GLOWS by comparison. Playing an OW opposite a sick, pregnant BS looks like child's play (to her -- right NOW).

So, it's going to be up to you to establish a WAR plan that will upset the OW's game plan by:
a) upsetting her confidence
b) making her look and feel bad
c) making sure that all the while you look and feel fantastic and confident

The rule is, you have to come out smelling like a rose!

The idea is that you want to make sure that you do not reward a QueenBee for her aggression in ANY WAY whatsoever. Believe it or not, it can be done!

In this particular game plan, your husband is a pawn/bit player (from her point of view), and SO ARE YOUR KIDS. So ...
1) Minimize the drama
2) Minimize the volume
3) Keep all contact with her as brief and minimal as possible.
4) You are entitled to have her phone calls blocked, reducing contact at your home (this works in our area, maybe not yours)
5) Calm around the children;
6) If you see her in public or at work, do not acknowlege her presence, not with a wave, smile, glance, tears, upset, nothing. She gets NO REWARD (not positive, not punishing, not negative .... NO DRAMA POINTS FOR HER!).
7) As much pain as you are in (which must be astronomical) ... NO DRAMA AROUND YOUR HUSBAND because he will report back to OW "oh, she was blistered with pain, completely upset" and this will fuel the QueenBee

In the meantime, be prepared -- The response to the HR letter that you sent (for a QueenBee) may very well be that she enjoys the attention. Good luck!

If I'm entirely off-base, I'm sure the other posters will not hesitate to tell me so! But God Bless!

Gwyn,

Sweetsobriquet is a WW who does not follow MarriageBuilders advice. She may also be a troll, with several other usernames. Beware of her advice.

She believes that the BS is supposed to "get over it" and stop any emotional reactions......that it all has to do with the BS (note her post even says so!!!).

She and her counterpart, finetoapoint, have been flaming BS's over on the Recovery forum, for not "getting over it" fast enough, moving on fast enough, and "relishing" in their emotional pain.

She is NOT giving MB advice. In fact, she stated that betrayed spouses are akin to amputees in that they "feel inappropriate pain in inappropriate places". You need only take a look in the Recovery forum under "If you have ever been unfaithful" to verify. She may also be the same poster "passionpeach", and "nonameo".

Please be very careful when taking this person's advice, and know that she believes the BS is the problem, and they need to stop feeling the hurt - basically, stuff it so the marriage can survive.

Sweet,

You bring out many good points. I like your presentation of it and hope it helps many get past the enabling factor.

The A is part of the greed virus. As a result, the OP will generally tire of the WS and seek their next victim. In my case, the OW wanted MY title and status. We didn't much materially but what she lacked, I had in abundance. I had real friends, I didn't need to have an A to get attention. My life was full. I had an R with God and others that I c/b proud of. I had many more things the OW could only dream about. Why? Because her choices revolved around taking what did NOT belong to her. Her choice was t/b a thief.

Eventually the OW discarded the WS. Men find that hard to take but to a hard care OW, that's a way of life.

Know this and it c/b a valuable tool.

Thanks for your posts Sweet. I look forward to more.

take care,
L.