I say let the kids loose on them.....the wonderful rabid little creatures they can be......nothing says it better than from the mouth of babes....and who says they can't have an opinion.....it's better they let it out at dear old dad and his sally blow me up doll than to bottle it up.

What a load of carp!

There is never any need to sit around waiting to be victimized, and there is always some kind of positive, prudent action to be taken.

You have come through tremendous challenges, but what challenges are there for your husband? You really ARE making yourself (and your children) a very effective victim. Tremendous numbers of people are rooting for you, wishing you well, and hoping you'll find a way to do something to edge your way out of this situation.

Remind me again, why you do not ask your own family for help, here? Surely, you could go to live with your own family? Ask them for financial assistance to get legal protection? I believe that someone identified herself as one of your sisters, and claimed that the family had not liked your husband to begin with (too many pages ago for me to find). Is the problem that you do not want to go back to your family and have them say "told ya so"?

Well, basically I'll put it to you this way sweets. My family won't help me. The only reason they'd pay for a divorce is to throw it in my face and yes, say I told you so. My mother means well, my father not so much. My parents raised me to think I have to pay for my own mistakes. They have always been this way. They would never let me live with them. They are the ones telling me to go on welfare even though I don't qualify (and yeah, I've checked).

On the other hand, I have a wonderful father in law. Problem is, I can't expect him to bail me out of everything all the time. WS has come to expect that from him. His parents raised him the opposite way mine did. He always knew if he ran into an obstacle, his parents would help him through.

Gwyn --

1. Your husband is tormenting you and willing to let you live as a co-wife, confronted regularly in a man-sharing situation -- grotesque and beyond!

2. I won't detail his character issues -- This is a webpage with limited space, and who has the time. But you tell us he's committed to continued affairs; even his mistress is pretty sure she's in danger of being used financially and dumped.

3. He is not contributing to the family upkeep (or am I wrong on this?) The family is destitute and you are currently / are about to be / are constantly in threat of becoming homeless.

4. You currently have no employable trade other than "student" (please correct me here).

What would prevent you from simply moving into a women's shelter with the kids? This is certainly an emotionally abusive situation. I really fail to see how this is benefiitting either you, or the children, but I would love to know where I'm wrong (and others here are usually so helpful with that).

Shelters are suitable for people from a broader spectrum of society than you might imagine. They are also filled with social workers who may be good at helping you wend your way through this difficulty, to find the services you need to gain some greater sense of strength and self-reliance.

You've certainly been through an incredible amount of stuff in just a few short weeks.

Are there dorms or student housing at the school you attend? Are there any local friends that you can stay with for a while? Any old highshool friends back in your hometown? Do you attend a house of worship? Do you have any aunts/uncles/siblings/grandparents? Have you contacted any of the local social services or community organizations to see about subsidized housing for you and the children?

Personally, I would move in with any parent or relative that would let me, even if I had to listen to a lecture every day of what they considered to be my personal failings. Or apply to social services and live with 6 other families in a government provided shed. I could take any of that more easily than having my children forced to deal with this abomination.

Have you searched for another woman with children who would be willing to swap out babysitting with you so that you don't have to leave your little ones with the OW?



I would encourage you to rethink this. In the current situation, your daughter isn't always going to have you around to speak up for her or protect her. It's clear that the OW and WS have no sense of propriety. Don't undermine or ask her to squelch her honest reactions to an incredible assault on her sense of family, home and stability. I'm not saying that you should encourage her to speak out, but I don't think she should just be silenced without helping her with some way to respond.

Please don't leave your daughter with the impression that it's her against the adults (or her elders). Maybe other parents who have dealt with OP interacting with their children can speak up with guidelines they used with their children. She needs to know that *you* understand, that she can talk to you about what she is dealing with, that you can support her with the understanding that this isn't normal or acceptable. I am just concerned that she's going to feel shushed up and have no one to turn to.

Your situation is one of the most abysmal I've seen. Not only are you being confronted with the harlot regularly, but your children are as well. Have you contacted an attorney to see if you can get some sort of protective order to keep the OW from your children?

Oh boy.

Okay. Well, I put it all in perspective this way. Sure I could go live in a shelter, sure I could go just drop out of school, but if you guys had any idea not only how hard it is to get into Nursing school and the fact that I'm ALMOST finished, AND that I'm going to effectively triple any income I could be making right now in 6 months basically - don't you think that I should finish so no matter what happens I can take care of my kids?

No, I don't like OW around my kids. I've made that abundantly clear. However, as I said, my parents (and lets include my sister here, too, since she lives with my parents now because she is going through a divorce) aren't going to help me. They are famous for saying they'll do things and never follow through. I expect that shortcoming even if I do love them.

I have no family member that could take me AND three kids in. That's a lot. FIL would have taken us in, but there's just no room for us, him, and his malamutes. He would do anything for us and I don't want him to feel as though he needs to.

WS' issue, even the same he brought up to me yesterday, is that I need to get a job. If he was HOME I would need to get a job, that's how much financial trouble we're in. So, yes, I'm sleep deprived, totally stressed out from school, and I'm trying to get night shifts at the hospital doing care tech work. I know the managers have my resume, I didn't get the 'hey you suck no job for you email' yet (they send them) so I've been keeping contact. However, I'm afraid I'm going to need something faster. What that is, I don't know.

WS has learned one thing: don't keep me away from the bank account. We've been short on money, but if I was responsible for making sure the bills were paid, this wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

He told me again that he loved me and wants to come home. He's still checking to see if I want him to. I still don't know what to tell him. I do, but I don't. I'm sure you understand. Either way I've been seeing more traces of H than WS lately and its reassuring, but we'll see. I really want him to be willing to do things the MB way and of course he thinks anything someone else wrote is a crock of crap. My MB speak is almost as foreign to him as his WS speak.

The only way I can get an attorney is through my parents. IF they do it. Like I said, they only said they would. To me, I need to make sure that there's no way to repair my marriage.

My daughter knows she always has me to talk to about what is bothering her. I did a silent cheer when she said what she said to OW, but I don't want to raise a disrespectful child.

In other news: I wrote my appeal if anyone wants to read it. I brought it to the school last week and should hear their decision by the 18th.

Oh, and I know things seem abysmal, but things *will* get better because they have to. That's how life is.

I pray that you reap great rewards for all the hard work you are doing for your family under these horrible circumstances.

But I don't understand something. Why are your parents willing to help your sister (letting her move in b/c she's going through a divorce) and they won't help you AND their grandchildren?

Princessmeggy,

Why they help her and not me.. well. Well, to put it simply as possible - my father holds a grudge. His daughter who he had great hopes that was going to make great things of herself (me) had a scholarship to college (Georgia Tech, nonetheless) and did not end up going because she got 'knocked' up to this loser (WS). Ever since we have had a tumultuous relationship at best. He should get over it: he should love me and want to see his grandkids, but he doesn't. I've been the one to initiate all contact. I'm the one who goes over to their house, when they have time for me, that is. My mother has no trouble with seeing me - as long as H wasn't around. Now that he's not around I see her more often. I'm sure you get the idea by now..

My father told me that if I ever decided to reconcile with WS that he wasn't going to cut all contact off with me and the kids. Nice, isn't he?

It's a sad situation. I am afraid he won't let this go until he is on his deathbed. He's my dad. There are a lot of things about him I'm not fond of, but it's a shame I can't have a relationship with him. (Well, unless I get divorced and THEN and only then will he make time for me)

Not one to push D here but your WS does sound like a loser of epic proportions. It could be that your dad was right. Albeit it does not give him the right to cut you off and treat your poorly, you are still his daughter.

Frankly, I concur that you may have very perceptive parents who are refusing to enable your destructive relationship with an undesireable man.

HOWEVER ... if we are going to deal with the FUTURE and what THAT holds ...

Gwyn, what advice would you offer your OWN dear, darling daughter in this exact same situation?

Gwyne I do know how hard it is to get into nursing school and let alone graduate from nursing school. I was in nursing school myself and got all the way to my last class and I was dealing with the same thing you are dealing with now. A WS and unbelievably manipulative and conniving OW. I couldnt concentrate or stay focused. I developed ulcers and the whole ordeal almost put me in the psych ward.

During that time I had to depend on my WS to watch the kids while I was in school and he would continually subject my children to being around the OW. I felt like I had no choice because I was so close to graduating and I felt it would be so worth it when I finished I would be so much better off. Guess what, because of all the stress and inability to concentrate I failed.

It was sad and terribly fustrating, but probably the best thing that happened to me. After failing that class I went and I got a job,started taking back control of my life and got my children out of that situation. They never had to see OW face again and I didn't have to depend on my WS for not one da*n thing after that.

I gained my respect back, but most importantly I was able to have peace of mind knowing I can control what my children are subjected to and adultery was not one of them. I thought my actions would only further alienate me and WS and surely drive him further into the arms of OW, but just the opposite happened. I am only try to convey to you that I know what it is like to want something so bad and to make sacrafices to achieve them. Yes, it is true that financially you will be so much better off if and when you complete nursing school but at what cost?

Finishing school is not worth your sanity and it is not worth your kids being exposed to adultery.It is not okay to disrespect, betray, and leave your wife and abandon your marriage vows. It happened to me 4 years ago and I just returned back to school for Nursing and I dont regret the time I lost in school. My health and my children's well being was way more important.

I can only commend you so please dont take my post as bashing or being negative I am merely saying maybe you should wait until your youngest is old enough for school or at least until you have better support system in place because nursing school is hard enough and being that the situation doesnt seem like it will change anytime soon the same thing may happen when you return to school.

Regardless we all want the best for you and it is a shame you cant rely on your family more for support.

Undecisive, I hear where you're coming from. I can't just quit. It isn't me. I think one of the hardest things I had growing up was that I wasn't good at anything. Everyone else around me had a talent. I didn't know where mine was. (Of course looking back, maybe I had some). Nonetheless, nursing seems to be 'me'. To give it up would be a greater disappointment on my part than anyone else's. The damage of my kids being brought around OW was already done. I want my children to see I didn't back down and I succeeded in the face of adversity or whatever you want to call it.

Oh, and the fact I'm already insane, so I have little to lose on that account. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps WS is a loser, perhaps he has growing up to do. He is still where my heart lies, even if it turns out futile on my part.

My parents brought me up to be extremely sheltered. I wasn't allowed to have many friends. I never got to go out like other kids my age did. My parents never let me learn how to drive and get my license. I had to do that when I moved out. They were overprotective and I think it had quite the adverse effect on me. I always felt my father didn't want me to be happy. I still think that even his offer of helping me was not so I could be happy. He has never been there for me the entire time I've been married and I don't trust his help or his opinions right now. I would be there for my children no matter what dumb decisions they made.

WS's been calling me more often these days - like I said.. actions speak louder than words. Let's communicate. It's a start if you have any idea how sporadic our speaking has been. His best friend who pretty much told him to go the heck away was talking to him again. That's when I knew things might be changing. He went with him hunting over the weekend. Probably a good thing for WS to get away from OW for a little while and breathe. He told me his cell ran out of power during the weekend, probably good, too, so OW couldn't call him 75 million times like I know she will. He called me the first time on his way back to see how I was. Supposedly OW's neighbor or something overheard us talking when he was talking about coming back. I think this is a crappy story on OW's part. I think she's scared and already suspected something she wanted WS to confess. Oh well, whatever. It's not my problem.

Today he called me. We exchanged pleasantries, asked each other how we were doing.

WS: "I was thinking while I was at work that maybe once I come back home we could get remarried again"
Me: "Do what? ..Yeah we said we would do that at ten years if I remember correctly. I don't know where you and I will be, so that's not something I can answer"
WS: "Well, I want us to start over. We didn't begin with the best situation and I want it the way it should have been."
He goes on about how he is going to have to change a lot and of course I wasn't out of the clear, too. Then he told me he loved me.
Me: "Let me say this - It was very easy for you to tell me that you loved her, keep that in mind"
WS: "Well, I walked away from something I never should have and didn't realize what I had"
He told me that he would cut off all contact from her once he left - as he said it, "When I come back it'll be all about me and you. There's no reason to see her again. But boy will she be surprised/livid/etc when she finds out I'm going back to you".

Well, let's just watch and see where this goes. Hm.

Keep watching what he DOES, not what he says. That's the only advice I can give you. You are doing a great job just hanging in there!

Gwyneffar I totally understand your feelings and I guess it is a personal choice what you decide about nursing school. I just wish there was a way for you to complete school without relying on WS and FIL. I do believe you will be rewarded for all that you have endured over the last few months.
I also agree with other poster, watch WS actions and not his words. If he is sincere he needs to start putting these words into actions and show you that he wants to work on the marriage until then keep doing what you are doing.

Bumpin up for miss Gwyneffar!!!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Let's see then, a little update before I go to bed.,. I haven't really slept in 4 days and I have clinicals in the morning.

Thanksgiving was weird. First off, I spent some of it at my parents, which is just weird in itself. It was nice though. I saw my brother whom I haven't seen in years. WS took DD2 with him and OW and they went places, including FIL's before me and the other kids showed up. Eh

I'm waiting for the answer to my appeal. The dean told me I'd know by Thanksgiving, not realizing my appeal went BACK to the professor so it's likely I'll never see it again. I got an email from him today that now it's going to be NEXT week until they reach a decision. How hard can it be!? I need to know what's going on for next term since I am fighting with other reinstatements for a Pediatrics seat if my appeal is declined.

DD2's birthday was on the 17th. I have been completely broke and I was horrible and couldn't buy her any gifts. But wouldn't you know! OW bought her a Tickle Me Elmo - the new one. Then she asked me, you'll like this one.. "Hey we know you have clinicals so I was wondering if was okay if we had the party over at my house and we'll wait till you get home to start" Okay some crap like that. LIKE I WOULD EVER want to go there! But I did. Had a panic attack, especially after seeing my dog chained up in the backyard. My puppy! There was no party as everyone canceled. Of course, you know.. I bet people thought going to a party at the OW's house would be say awkward? Maybe?

I wrote some scribble about the situation in my online journal and my friends told me I really need to re-read ALL I wrote to make a decision on what I want to do. It's amazing the plethora of ways a WS can hurt a BS. I'm an optimist.. probably more now than I ever was before. After all what do I have to lose after all at this point.

Also, WS's truck was stolen right from his and OW's yard the other night. In OW's infinite wisdom, she left her purse and her keys in her truck, unlocked of course. It was found yesterday morning in really rough shape. I love that truck and it is very special to me. Seeing OW drive it for the first time hurt me a great deal. To add insult to injury, my kids' car seats were stolen and the icing on the cake, so was my wedding band. He had been keeping our rings in the center console of the truck. Argh!

But like I said, forever optimist. I am glad no one was hurt and that the truck came back.

I'm afraid that he's seriously cake eating though. I know he says he wants to come home and he gives me this spiel on how we need to save up enough money to move out before he can come home.. BUT if he wanted to try so badly, wouldn't he come home anyway? This is what happened before class on Thursday:

I have to take the kids over to OW's since WS didn't get home for work until after I was in class. OW's friendworks at the grocery store and comes and talks to me when I go shopping. I kind of let it slip out that WS may be coming home before Christmas.. I didn't even think about the fact they were friends. Well, she told OW. Sooo when I get there:

OW.: So, Christmas?
I have no idea what she's talking about.. I just say, "Yeah?"
OW: Christmas. That's what you told my friend Sara, that he was coming back"
I keep looking at her like the idiot she is.
Me: "Oh, your friend that likes to start trouble"


I go to school and call WS on the way there.

Me:"She really @@$^#%^@$ me off. I'm not a violent person but I would love to shove my foot up her rear. Plus when I go over there I feel like I'm being led on. Or she's being led on. Or I'm being led on.. I have no idea what's going on!"
WS: "Stop talking and listen for a minute."
Me: "Okay.."
WS: "Look, I really DO love you and I miss you very much. You just need to be patient a little longer. I'm sorry what I've put you through the past half of a year. You need to make sure you want me to come back because when I come back, I'm not planning on leaving again. I want to make sure you want to try as hard as I do"

So, what do you guys think?

gwyn

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but WTH does this mean? "I want to make sure you want to try as hard as I do"???

He hasn't tried at all. He IS leading you both on.

If he really wanted to come back-he would. He has no consequences for his actions. You bring the kids to OW. She watches them. She pays his bills.

Please, look at what he is DOING, not what he is SAYING.

No, No no harshness because I totally AGREE with what you're saying. I am watching his actions. I'm just trying to figure out where in the heck am I in this path? Must be more of this roller coaster stuff. Basically my feeling is if he spends Christmas with her I definitely know my answer.

Oh, Gwyneffar, your husband is just being the typical WS. He is most likely telling the OW what she wants to hear too. He probably tells her that he can't divorce you "right now" - that you need to finish school, your baby needs to grow up, he has to wait for the presidential elections, blah, blah, blah. That is just what they do.

Continue on your path to making YOUR life a good one. I'm praying that you can stay in school. And I have a feeling you are going to be just fine, whatever the outcome.

The truck being stolen should cause of few LB's in the relationship. Sorry it happened, but it WILL cause trouble in paradise.

Gwyn:

I hope your reinstatement and Appeal works out.

I hope that you get your Nursing degree.

I hope that you get an excellent position with a quality hospital.

I hope That you then get rid of this loser and his OW and all this stupid drama in your life.

You get somebody who is compentent and caring to watch your children while you build a life for you that is stable and real.

Every day you wake up, YOU get a little stronger, and WH goes a little further away.

You have a plan. AS convoluted and crazy as this world is for you right now, you do have a plan.

If the appeal fails, then you should be able to get a position as a nursing aide, etc.

You can start rebuilding your life, even if the appeal fails.

Time to end the craziness in your life.

Your relationship with your WH and OW is dsyfunctional at best, and not the type of relationship that we see around here very often. But, it's your world, and serves your purposes at the moment.

As SOON as you can withdraw from this dsyfunctional R, you should. And if that day happens the day after graduation, then so be it. Keep the sitch for your DD as normal as possible. AND then extract her from it.

Please, write out your plan and start following it. Abuse your WH and OW as needed to accomplish it. Money, childcare, lodging, etc.

And then get as FAR AWAY as possible.

LG