Right, you may have done things, but they did not demonstrate caring to him. If he does not perceive caring, it is not caring. It is not true that people do little things to show they care EXCLUSIVELY "at the beginning of all relationships." Those little things should INCREASE after one is married, not decrease. But he feels that you did not care about him and that is something that needs to be addressed and CHANGED. He will have no hope for your marriage unless you can convince him that you UNDERSTAND THIS and that you will change.

I realize you have a fairly new child at home, and this can be a dangerous time for married couples, because it is real easy to put one's spouse on the back burner when you are exhausted from taking care of a baby and a home.

The answer is NOT to argue with him and tell he "overlooked" things or that caring is exclusive to new relationships, but to LISTEN TO HIM and make changes. He needs to know that this will CHANGE if he comes back and it is important that you are COMMITTED TO CHANGE. You need to give him HOPE, Sara.


This is all correct. He likes the OW because of how she makes him feel. Remember that because it is the KEY. People fall in love and want to be around people because they MEET THEIR NEEDS. This is why it is important for you to demonstrate that you CAN AND WILL meet his needs.

And he will not get over her until they STOP all contact, that is true.


This is all true.


Well, you won't have the power to get her transferred or terminated, that will be up to the company entirely. You should expose the affair to Human Resources and to their bosses, and ask specifically that they use your name. Use your FULL NAME and ADDRESS and PHONE # when you expose, so they can be sure it is you. You might even want to email a copy of the exposure letter to the OW to ensure she KNOWS it was you. You should take FULL AND COMPLETE credit for your exposure. You are not a cockroach, after all, you are a betrayed spouse who has nothing to hide.


Here is a good exposure letter that should be sent to the Director of Human Resources with carbon copies [noted] to a key VP and the affairee's boss [es]. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=2

[Brits Brat is a corporate attorney, btw]

And yes, your H will be furious, but that is ok. The goal here is to save your marriage, not to appease him at all costs.

p.s. do you know who the OW's parents are? Can you try to track them down? www.peoplefinder.com

I am currently reading His Needs/Her Needs and trying to explore where our relationship fell short. I am also trying to discover how, at this point, I can make up for it because he becomes suspicious of any change in my behavior. He feels that my efforts are just too late now that he's infatuated with the OW. I will continue to show him that I care and search for new ways to do that in areas he feels it matters. I have a lot of time to reflect on it and I will use my time wisely.

As for discovering who the OW parents are, she was divorced before the current 6 year relationship (her husband cheated on her) and I'm not sure if she kept her married name or reinstated her maiden name. I will see if I can find out. Thanks for the search engine though, it has been really helpful.

So...A little update here. No information found out on Intellus about OW's family. My WH tells me that her father is a life-long alcohol and drug abuser and provided no info on her mother. But there are some other troubling things happening.

My WH has been spending more time at home. But it's very difficult to be around him. He is so sullen the whole time he is here it's difficult to interact. He also doesn't spend much time playing with our son, he just wants to sleep, eat, stare, or smoke a cigarette (which is a new development as he never smoked in the 14 years I've known him).

When we do talk, he invariably wants to discuss either the OW or the D. He is also very insistent that I not get an attorney, but simply wants me to go to mediation with him. He says he'll give me whatever I want, but does not want to pay for my attorney. I have refused to do this since I don't fully know what I am entitled to. He says that I'm being greedy and becomes extremely angry with me whenever I repeat my decision to engage a lawyer.

He also continues to make inappropriate comments. Now he tells me that he's been propositioned before by two other women over the past few years but that he never "wanted to like them", so he didn't pursue anything. He said that one of the former women who offered more than friendship has recently contacted him again to renew her efforts now that she has heard he is getting a D.

These comments are completely devastating to me. Not only do I have to think about the OW who he's leaving me for, but now he tells me about different ones who "want" him as well. I can't understand why he feels compelled to add injury upon injury.

My question is, do I continue to let him come over and speak to me this way or refuse to be around the house when he visits our son? I've not done well with the plan A tactic of being non-judgmental since I find these comments provoke me to anger quite easily. My hurt over what he says brings out my rude sarcasm and I'm having trouble controlling it.

Any suggestions?

Your reaction to his divorce talk is to respond that you are not interested in divorce, only in marriage, because you think that with some work you can have a great marriage. However, if he does serve you with D, assure him you will not cooperate. You will make it as hard as possible.



Do you think he NEEDS you to believe that other women want him? Is he doing this to motivate you to want him?

Does he feel ADMIRED and WANTED by you?


You have to STOP IT, Sara. You are harming YOURSELF with your reaction, and HELPING THE OW. Ask yourself who you would find more attractive:

1. wife who lashes out with rudeness and sarcasm

2. OW who is sweet, pleasant and ADMIRING

Who would you choose? See how you HELP THE OW WHEN YOU DO THIS? The goal here is to ATTRACT HIM BACK and foil her plans, not HELP HER.

Maybe he is trying to get my attention. But my counselor seemed to think he has narcissistic tendencies and feels the need to be admired by everyone. So I'm conflicted as to whether or not I should feed into it myself.

I don't want our conversations to take a bad turn and I am disappointed in myself for becoming angry. But from what I gather about the OW she if VERY accommodating and was the enabler in at least two abusive relationships. She was willing to put up with extremely inappropriate behavior from both her ex-husband and live-in boyfriend. I understand that she is being very nice to my husband, but that seems to stem from her fear of being alone since she appears to have the tendency to jump from one relationship immediately into another.

I cannot bring myself to "be nice" when he is purposely provoking me to anger. I will just try to walk away in the future so as to avoid making biting comments. But its extremely frustrating to be the BS and have to take the rude comments as well. It would be easier to avoid him altogether, but I'm not sure what that would accomplish.

Is he a DIAGNOSED NARCISSIST? Or is he just a man who wants to be ADMIRED AND RESPECTED by his wife and feels like he has to brag to get her attention?

Admiration is a top need of many people, it does not mean they are narcissists. It just means they are HAPPIEST when they are ADMIRED. They NEED to be ADMIRED by their spouses in order to stay in love.

Does he feel ADMIRED by you, Sara? Has he ever felt admired and respected by you?


so what, Sara? How is this relevant to anything? The point is that she is treating him GOOD and... you are not.


Yes you can. You have complete and full control over your emotions. You are not a child, you are a grown woman. And you are allowing your emotions to shoot you in the head at a time when you need to HELP YOURSELF, instead of the OW. Everytime you lambast him, you MAKE THE OW LOOK GOOD.

Please read this, Sara, and tell me what you think:


The Most Important Emotional Needs

As soon as I realized that a large Love Bank balance triggered the feeling of love, I went to work trying to discover what spouses could do for each other that would make the largest Love Bank deposits. I would ask couples, "What could your spouse do for you that would make you the happiest?" That very question focused on a core issue in marriage -- the issue of care. I could have asked the question, "How would you like your spouse to care for you?" As it turns out, care in marriage is doing what it takes to make each other happy.

When you were married, you and your spouse both promised to care for each other, and you expected that care from each other. You were in love, and you were highly motivated to make each other happy. But it might not have occurred to you at the time that if you didn't care for each other the right way, you might lose your love for each other. And along with your loss of love, you might lose your willingness to care for each other.

At the time, you probably did not know what caring for each other the right way meant. You thought that your commitment to care for each other would be sufficient to sustain your love. Even today, you may still be in the dark as to what it takes to care for each other the right way.

If that's the case, let me explain to you what care in marriage is: To care the right way, you must make large Love Bank deposits. And I've found that the best way to make those deposits is to meet each other's most important emotional needs.

What is an emotional need? It is a craving that, when satisfied, leaves you with a feeling of happiness and contentment, and, when unsatisfied, leaves you with a feeling of unhappiness and frustration. There are probably thousands of emotional needs. A need for birthday parties, peanut butter sandwiches, Monday Night Football, I could go on and on. Some people have some of those needs while others have different needs. If you feel good doing something, or if someone does something for you that makes you feel good, an emotional need has been met.

con'd at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Yes, you're right it doesn't matter why the OW is being nice to him, just that she is.

I probably have been overly critical of my WH in the past. I've admitted that to him already. But I do have trouble not venting my feelings when I believe an injustice is being done to me. However, I could certainly go about expressing my displeasure differently.

I understand that the OW must meet some of his major EN. The problem is that I am having difficulty with the idea that I now have to compete with another woman (or women) for my WH's affection. That is totally foreign to me and disturbing. Especially given the fact that he stiff arms any attempts I make in that regard and is suspicious of my motives when I try to engage him in conversations.

I guess I'm in an angry space at the moment. I will pray for direction and help with my feelings. Thanks for the advice though.

You don't have to compete. You are already #1. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Change your perspective. The OW is trying to steal your identity. R U gonna let her?

Btw, let the OW have the WS. That's how he got that way in the 1st place. The one you want back is your real H. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stupid OW....she thinks she is winning....she just doesn't know that no one wants to play with her. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

L.

LOL. Yes, I do want my REAL H back, not the WH.

Thanks for the positive encouragement

You know what? A terrible injustice is being done to you. It is the worst thing that will ever happen to you. But if you act on your feelings, THE OW WILL WIN. THE AFFAIR WILL WIN BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE THROWN HIM INTO THE ARMS OF THE OW. You have every right to be ANGRY AS HE11. I am ANGRY AS HE11 for you. I would like to HORSEWHIP your husband. But if you act on that ANGER, you push him away and SHE WINS.

You are at WAR, Sara. And your emotions are pushing you to make stupid moves. You are running around like a crazed woman on the battlefield screaming your head off. While getting SHOT. You have to play SMARTER THAN THEM in order to win.

You want to save your marriage and screw up the OW's plans to steal your H? Well, you have to be STRATEGIC, not REACTIVE and emotional in order to do it. That is what I am trying to help you do.

Do you want to save your marriage, or do you want to punish your H? [and REWARD the OW?] Which is it?


You have to do more than pray. You have to STOP allowing them to screw you up. You are a grown woman, not a girl. You have a CHOICE to act on your feelings or not. And you are going to have to STOP acting on them if you want to help yourself. Because your emotions are HARMING your position.

Is he a DIAGNOSED NARCISSIST? Or is he just a man who wants to be ADMIRED AND RESPECTED by his wife and feels like he has to brag to get her attention?

Admiration is a top need of many people, it does not mean they are narcissists. It just means they are HAPPIEST when they are ADMIRED. They NEED to be ADMIRED by their spouses in order to stay in love.

Does he feel ADMIRED by you, Sara? Has he ever felt admired and respected by you?

Yes, I see your point. This is an incredible weak spot for me. I hate to put up with what I consider abusive behavior so I lash out in response. I used to behave this way much more frequently before I became a Christian, but I was doing better with it over the past few years. This situation has caused several of my old behavior patterns to reemerge including my anxiety.

My WH is not diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But his attitude is so "in your face" that my counselor surmised that he probably has the disorder. It could be he does want my admiration. I really never did shown him or express my admiration of him in the past. I tried right after he told me about the A., but he basically told me it was too little too late.

So, again. Back to waiting. I will really try work on my reaction to his ugliness. It obviously causes more harm than good to repeat my former methods.

Good girl, Sara! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok, in what ways can you show him that you ADMIRE him? I think this is one of his top needs from the sound of it, and he is expressing RESENTMENT towards you over this. If you ADMIT to him that you have failed miserably to show him how much you appreciate and admire him, I think he will get out of your face. He needs to know that you find things about him to ADMIRE. [pretend this is him BEFORE he became a wayward] He needs to know that you are WILLING TO MEET HIS NEEDS. This the KEY, Sara. This is how you draw him BACK from the ho-bag.

So, please, no more lovebusters, no more anger. Only admiration and ATTRACTIVE BEHAVIOR. This is the HelpSara Program, not the HelpTheHoBag program. Got dat? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Here is how best to meet the need of ADMIRATION:


Admiration

If you have the need for admiration, you may have fallen in love with your spouse partly because of his or her compliments to you. Some people just love to be told that they are appreciated. Your spouse may also have been careful not to criticize you because criticism may hurt you deeply if you have this need. con'd at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_ad.html

more on Admiration..................Admiration is one of the easiest needs to meet. Just a word of appreciation, and presto, you've made someone's day. On the other hand, it's also easy to be critical. A trivial word of rebuke can set some people on their heels, ruining their day and withdrawing love units at an alarming rate.

Your spouse may have the power to build up or deplete his or her account in your Love Bank with just a few words of admiration or criticism. If you are affected that easily, be sure to add admiration to your list of important emotional needs.

Read what Melody said very carefully. I was like you, so angry that I didn't WANT to admire or Plan A my WH. I knew I needed to do it, but just couldn't seem to follow through. We are now divorced.

This doesnt sound like a narcissistic person to me, but a person who DEEPLY RESENTS not being appreciated and admired by you. His in your face attitude with these examples of admiring females is an attempt to HURT YOU BACK, for hurting him. He is saying: SCREW YOU, you don't want to admire me, I will find others WHO DO.

I am not trying to beat this to death, Sara, but I think it is REAL important that you understand this about your husband and take a pro-active approach to RECTIFYING this as best you can. You can easily neutralize his resentment over this if you stop the criticism and start telling him what you admire about him. That is all he wanted.

Well. I just got off the phone with my WH. I told him that I was sorry for not appreciating him more in our marriage. I also said that he was a good husband and provider for our family. I asked him if I ever made him feel like a worthless person and he said "at times". I was actually shocked to hear him say that. I said that I was truly sorry that I ever made him feel that way, because that was not how I viewed him. I couldn't help but cry throughout the entire conversation though as it was very hard to realize how low I made him feel.

I can't believe that I never saw how much I hurt him by my behavior. Not that I believe this justified the A., just that I can't understand how I could treat another person, let alone my husband, in that way and not see it.

Thanks MelodyLane for getting me to acknowledge this. I now realize that I really do have a problem giving (and receiving) compliments in general. It's just one more thing to add to the self improvement list.

One last bright spot was at the end of our conversation my WH actually thanked me for giving him the compliments. It felt good to know that I communicated some positive feelings toward him and that he appreciated what I said.

I guess this type of thing causes a person to go through a lot of introspection and I can see that I've got a lot of growing to do.

SAra, as you alluded above, this is not an excuse to have an affair, but it is how a person can be vulnerable to an affair. Now you will have to walk a fine line between ENABLING [a bad thing] and conveying the message that you are WILLING to meet his needs if he comes back. That doesn't mean that you give him false praise for acting like a creep. See what I mean? You would want to stay FIRM in your resolve against the affair, BUT WITHOUT LOVEBUSTERS, while trying your best meet his needs and show him that you CAN meet his needs. A fine line indeed!

Your talk with him last night probably has confused him terribly because he EXPECTS you to be mean and bitter to him. In fact, he is COUNTING ON IT because it makes his decision to leave much easier. He needs to demonize you in order to do this so he needs you to ACT like a demon! So, when you don't, you throw a monkey wrench into his plans and cause him to have second thoughts.

Great job on avoiding lovebusters!