Did you read my post this morning about the OW putting a whole different spin on it? Sheesh, I should go into fortune telling!

All his babble is just typical, Saralynn. He is upset because you are exposing the truth about the OW. Now try to stay out of it, so that he and OW don't spend their time uniting against YOU.

I would let him know that calling you names isn't going to fly, and that he needs to respect you in your home.

He is beginning to fear that the stuff you told him is TRUE. Otherwise he would have just brushed it off and not been upset.

I did read it and you were exactly right. This is just a lot to deal with especially being pregnant.

I got the XBF to send me pictures of the OW. Really, I don't see the attraction for my WH. I guess "love" really makes you blind to everything, including character flaws.

I know that you're right about him believing the truth but wanting to deny it. That's why it's getting to him. I guess I will just give him space for a while, but I still want to change the locks. He really gets weird when he's angry and I don't want to come home and find my computer is gone. How else would I get all this good advice from you guys if I can't go on line? LOL!

Some states you can change the locks, and some states you can't. I live in California, a community property state, and here you CAN'T. Or if you do, your spouse has the right to break a window to enter the home.

Above all, you need to take care of you, your family and baby. Don't allow him to call you names or frighten you.

And for some reason, the affairees usually trade DOWN. OW might not look like much, but she has met some need of your husband. Try to figure out what it is and see if you can meet it.

I think you have done an excellent job in all of this. Now, try to stay out of things. The affairees love to join together against the BS. You have given your husband a heads up, now drop it.

Continue your Plan A. If he brings this stuff up again just tell him that you were worried for him after hearing the OW's history, but he is a big boy, and you trust him to figure things out.

Hi Saralynn77,

Girl I am SO proud of you!

Wow I wish I could have pulled off such composure when my WH talked mean to me. You did an excellent job responding to his (psycho) babble!

It sounds like the adultery isn't so much fun anymore? LOL

If he really believed the OW instead of the XBF then why on earth is he so upset?!? LOL

People don't get loud and verbally abusive because they feel confident... he knows with exposure you have some power to destroy their fantasy.

Keep exposing to anyone relevent.

Oh, and hide your computer LOL. Change your locks AND set your computer up in a closet where he wouldn't think to look for it. If he does get in and does take your computer can you get online at the local library?

I know that he can break in if he chooses, but I don't think that will occur to him. Even if he does, he knows he will have to pay for any repairs for breaking in. So again, I think it may be worth it.

I will give him some space like I said and not be around when he visits our DS for few days. He has made verbal abuse a recent habit and I've told him 3 times that I don't want him to speak to me that way. He continues to do so anyway. I am wondering what else I can do other than avoid him.

He (amazingly enough) accused me of F***ing the XBF (who lives in N. Carolina and has never met me)... and then asked if I was going to date him...I mean the WH's getting really irrational.

Yeah, he's gone crazy.

I'm sure I could use my Mom's computer, but really, it's so much more convenient having this one here. I could go and buy one too (after all, we still have a joint checking account that he hasn't closed down) if he chooses to be stupid about this.

He seems to be extremely bothered by an e-mail sent by the XBF to all of the OW's friends and family that referred to my WH as a D*CK Head. My WH was extremely insulted and said that the XBF "didn't even know him" and was making up things about him. He's so self centered about this whole thing. He only cares that he looks bad in front of her friends and family, not that he's done anything wrong.

He is going exactly by the WS book. That is very good because it means that all of the plans here will most likely work.

Take care of yourself and let your hubby do this on his own. You can be in Plan A, be his wife and friend. Later, you can go to Plan B and let HER try to meet his needs.

So the WS is offended? Ha ha!! Ask him what should a WS (aka: adulterer) be called?

That's a type of reverse babble..... you don't tell them, you ask them and see if they can answer. Then it's not your words, it's their's that you can use at a later date. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

He sounds extremely immature and manipulative and lashes out at you with cruel threats when he doesn't get his way, ie: threatening to have his child spend the night with he and the OW, accusing you of sleeping with XBF, etc. Has he always been this childish and manipulative?

"He (amazingly enough) accused me of F***ing the XBF (who lives in N. Carolina and has never met me)... and then asked if I was going to date him...I mean the WH's getting really irrational."

Maybe he's jealous that you are merely talking to the XBF? LOL While it's OK for him to do whatever he wants with the OW? Just more alien babble. (My WXH became enraged because I "brought a man wearing a business suit" to a court date - um, my lawyer LOL It seemed to really upset him that he was wearing a SUIT! Even years later WH would throw this in my face - like it was something really hurtful and unforgiveable that I did to him!) We assure you this sort of abnormal behavior is typical for the WS.

Obviously he doesn't want you to be in contact with the XBF and it's most likely because the exposure is effectively interfering with their fun.

I agree you should try to avoid being around him if he's going to be verbally abusive and angry. Stay in Plan A, when you do have contact with him do not argue or love-bust, but Plan A doesn't mean you have to spend time with him if/when he obviously just wants to lash out at you.

I think I remember you saying you that when he comes over to see your son and starts getting verbally abusive with you that you leave? How much system security do you have on your computer? He might be snooping around your home when you leave. Maybe you should just ask him to take your son somewhere for visitation? Or is that something that worries you? Do you think he really will go through with his threat to introduce son to OW?

One suggestion to diminsh the verbal abuse and threats would be to have somebody over whenever he comes over. A close friend or relative's presence might motivate him to be more civil. Right now he's acting pretty insane in your presence and most likely would scale back on the insane talk if he knew it was more than just you hearing it.
You could still be in Plan A, just not so vulnerable and bullied.

No. He has never been this bad before. I told him that it's like he is a completely different person now. Whether this person was there all along and simply hiding from me for 14 years or is a recent development is anyone's guess.

I am amazed (not really, though) that he would believe the OW. Of course he would have to believe her because otherwise he would have to admit that the person he is ruining his life for is really not a nice girl. I like the fact that he stated last night that I am "nothing like [the OW". I take that as a compliment, though he didn't mean it as such.

I wonder if I can get some outside verification (i.e. contact the former boss's wife) to prove the marriage was ruined. The XBF seems pretty sick of the whole situation and keeps saying he wants to avoid everyone involved for a while. So I'm not sure how much longer I can get information.

Sara, I am not amazed at all that he would believe the OW. I would be amazed if he didn't. I am just amazed at his behavior. It is very different from what we usually see. He enjoys being cruel to you, usually when a WS is cruel, it is in pursuit of their affair. He goes beyond that.

Ok, where do we stand on exposure to HR?

"He seems to be extremely bothered by an e-mail sent by the XBF to all of the OW's friends and family that referred to my WH as a D*CK Head. My WH was extremely insulted and said that the XBF "didn't even know him" and was making up things about him."

He probably doesn't give a toot what the XBF thinks of him.
He's angry because exposure has the power to destroy the adulterous relationship.

I'm not sure whether my next suggestion is a good idea or not, get some feedback from the wiser posters on it before trying it, but this is what I would say:

"I can certainly understand why it would upset you to have somebody you've never even met say bad things about you. I understand because that's how I feel about the OW disrespecting me and my feelings when she doesn't even know me."

Again, I'm not sure if this is a wise suggestion or not.
I don't think it would be considered LoveBusting but with the way a WH defends the OW, he would probably just interpret as your putting her down. In reality, her choice to become involved with a married man was a choice to hurt an innocent wife, who never did or said anything wrong to her. Odds are your WH and the OW have said bad things about you to each other: 'my wife is a nag'... 'oh you poor dear she doesn't deserve you'... blah-blah-blah Let's face it WH don't convince OW to sleep with them by saying nice things about their wife... So no doubt WH and OW (who doesn't even know you) have said their share of unflattering and untrue things about you too. But most likely he would be too selfish to get your point and would just defend her 'honor' from your 'attack'... And THAT is some really hurtful alien babble to have to listen to!

Sara, meremortal is right. Don't say anything more about the OW, or you will just make him DEFEND HER. You don't want to divert him from taking a hard look at her, so back off.

I don't think he will introduce my DS to the OW, but anything is possible at this point. Just the day before yesterday he said he would "never bring our DS over there". So I'm pretty sure it's only a threat.

I don't have a security system on the computer, but I've made a habit of clearing all the history and my private data/passwords every time I close my browser.

Most of my important paperwork is kept at my Mom's as well. So there is nothing for him to find.

I think that I'm just going to let him take our DS places for a visit on week days (the OW lives 20 minutes away and so I don't think my WH has enough time in the evening to drive there after work and get my son home before his bed time). He toned his behavior down quite a bit when I did this before in response to his verbal abuse. He refuses to even come over if my Mom is here, so I can't have any relatives over when he visits.

This situation is really getting bizarre. I guess it's true I can Plan A from a far for a while, but so many details have been unveiled about my WH and the OW, that I'm wondering if I even want him back. Of course, he may change, but I'm not sure he would be willing to do what's required to save our marriage since he avoids doing anything difficult when it comes to interpersonal relationships. This is one reason why I know his current A. is doomed to failure. Once the rubber meets the road and they begin having their own problems, he will run away and pout. From what the XBF says, the OW will not let him get away with that sort of thing and there will be trouble in paradise.

I'm almost tempted to throw him into the OW's arms and let him see how "wonderful" it will be.

He knows from his actions that he is a selfish, thieving, lying, cheating, adulterous, scandalous, quitter, characterless, rotten father, mate, friend and more. This is just from what can be seen and attached to WH's actions, nothing more.

They really don't get it when fogged out.

"He refuses to even come over if my Mom is here, so I can't have any relatives over when he visits."

OK, so have somebody else over when he comes to visit. Or don't let him know ahead of time that your mother will be there. I just have a very creepy feeling about spending time alone with somebody who's become verbally abusive and trying to control with threats.

Plus there's the consistence principle which you can use in your favor (or which can be used against you). It's well known that somebody treats you with love and erspect because they love and respect you or they treat you with hate and disrespect because they hate and disrespect you. The behavior is driven by their feelings and beliefs about you. But it's equally true that if somebody treats you with love and respect they THEN will FEEL more loving and respectful towards you. Or if the they treat you hatefully and disrespectfully they will then feel more hatred and disrespect towards you. SO: You want to minimize his hateful treatment towards you and increase the likeliness he will say and do nice things for you as a way to actually get him more in touch with his love for you!

Here's another reason for only having contact with him when he's talking and behaving nicely towards you: It will help keep YOUR love for HIM and the chances that your marriage can recover, alive. The more hurtful garbage you hear him say to you the more you will have to try to recover from - whether or not you reconcile. This is going to be rough enough on you without your having to hear those mean things.

So even if you invite over the next door neighbor, try not to spend much alone time with him until he exhibits he can behave nicely towards you.

Oh, and if/when he does say or do anything nice make sure you show appreciation! Even if it's just the sort of things he's legally or morally required to do, thank him for it. Remember the nicer he is to you, the more he will think and feel like you deserve to be treated nice. Use positive reinforcement to increase the incidence of his niceness to you.

One of the reasons he's being so hostile now is because he KNOWS he's done something horrible to you, and in order to justify it he's trying to assure himself that you are such a hateful person that you deserved to be treated horribly.
It's a way to make his feelings consistent with his actions.

Make sure you stay calm as much as is humanly possible and then some (I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me). He will say hateful and untrue things to try to bait you into argument. Leave, change the subject, say you'll get back to him later... don't take that abuse and don't take that bait.

He wants/needs for you to act angry in order to justify what he's doing. He doesn't want to give up the addiction of the adultery. Your being loving, appreciative, innocent, calm, deprives him of an excuse to continue the adultery that he knows is hurting you. So he's going to try to get you to react to him in a non-loving, non-appreciative, non-calm... way.

He will try to pretend that exposure is something you are doing just to be mean and hateful. He will make a big deal out of it to try to use that as his excuse to define you as being a mean enough person for him to be justified in hurting you with the adultery. This sort of circular 'logic' is common among adulterers: I'm going to divorce you because you didn't react properly to my betraying you with adultery!

He will try to make you feel ashamed for exposure. My WXH tried to tell me some of the people I exposed to complained to him that I had told them - I told him they didn't say that to me, seemed very interested, sympathized with me, and some even thanked me for telling them! A couple people offered me more info like more phone numbers and names to expand exposure (I got the OW's name from a WH co-worker!) and details about the adultery (some didn't realize he was married/not separated, some were told I was the one who left/was leaving him, some gave details of their dating history) A LOT of people prefer to stay 'neutral' when they know about adultery BUT WILL help you one htey find out the BS knows - they just don't want to be the one to tell the BS themselves.

"I'm almost tempted to throw him into the OW's arms and let him see how "wonderful" it will be."

Continue with Plan A for a while... He's just entering the part where the fantasy honeymoon phase of the adultery is ending. Give her time to LoveBust him. Give them some time to fight while you are the safe-haven for him to come home to where it's all calmness and sweetness! Its' tough I know but there needs to be some overlap here. You will feel like a fool. You will feel enraged at times. But remember this is only temporary. You are not becoming a doormat. You are fighting to save your marriage. You have a Plan. Read Plan A and Plan B every day if you have to. Pray for the strength to do it. Come here to vent.
Remember, up until now she has been doing sort of a Plan A behind your back with you husband! Exposure has ended her Plan A or at least is going to make it much harder for her to Plan A. She aleady had an unfair advantage with her Plan A'ing your husband in secret for who knows how long! You don't want to cut your own Plan A short! Right now he's going to be wishing he can go back to pre-exposure, when it was all Plan A with her. He's angry at you for wrecking that for him. For a while he can pretend that the ONLY problem between he and she is YOU - your interference, your puttng the OW down, your expectations that he stop the adultery, etc. Right now they are buddied up against you. But inceasingly they will turn on each other as she starts makgin demands and he rebels agasint her expectations. Stay in Plan A at least long enough for him to realize his wishful thinking is never going to bring back the pre-exposure fantasy phase.

Sara, why would is he avoiding your family?

Also, I would not allow him to expose your son to the OW. She is an unfit adult who doesn't need to be around children. Let him know that you wont allow him to take your son unless he guarantees he will protect your boy from his affair.

You're right MelodyLane (about my being right LOL):

"Don't say anything more about the OW, or you will just make him DEFEND HER. You don't want to divert him from taking a hard look at her, so back off."

Again applying the consistency principle the more the WW criticizes the OW, the more the WH defends to OW. The more the WH defends the OW, the more the WH feels the OW deservees to be loved and defended...

Also applying the see-saw principle I read about in the Divorced Busting book: The more you take one position, the more the other person is free to take the opposing
position. So criticizing the OW does not encourage the WH to criticize the OW, but to defend her. The recommendation is to do a 180 and take the position opposite to what you want your spouse to take. You get off your end of the see-saw and get on his end. This prompts him to go over and get ont he end you got off of to restore balance. Of course it would be pretty difficult (and IMHO sort of sick) to expect the BW to start defending the OW... but an alternative is given: Instead of getting on his end of the see-saw, you can just get off the seesaw altogether. In the case of the WH defending the OW that translates to you don't participate in discussions of the OW's 'honor', flaws, motives, morals, whatever... You just stay away from that see-saw altogether - just hop off and let his butt thud his side of that seesaw down to the ground. The reverse application of thsi is you don't defend yourself to him either (doesn't mean you have to stand there and listen to him put you down though - walk away or hang up). Your goal is for him to defend you right? So you stop being defensive. Again, this does not mean you have to get on the other side of that see-saw either: you don't start putting yourself down or agreeing with his attempts to belittle you. Just get really non-interested in the whole OW is so great but BW is awful discussion any time it comes up.

If I tell my WH that I don't want my DS around the OW, he will simply use that as a tool to manipulate me or would take him there just to make me angry. Instead, I will set short time limits for visits to make it impossible for him to take him anywhere for extended periods.

My WH doesn't like my mom (nor does he like his mom) and so wouldn't want to see her. The reason being is that my mom has always been there for me to talk to when I had problems with my WH. He hates for people to know when he's being a jerk so he naturally doesn't like my mom. My dad has never really gone out of his way to talk to him because he doesn't have a very high opinion of him either. My brother would just as soon beat him to a pulp over what he's done than look at him, so he pretty much wants nothing to do with my family.

All, this aside, I did speak with the HR department this morning because I wanted to see if sending a letter would have any affect or be another flop like it was with my WH's boss. I spoke with a very nice woman who was an HR Generalist and on the HR leadership committee. She too had been cheated on by her XH and shared the same college major as I, so I feel we really connected in our conversation.

She basically let me know that there was no policy against forming inappropriate relationships at work. But there were policies against using company resources for non-work related material. Unfortunately, a supervisor must witness or receive a complaint from an employee before any action can be taken. Since it is all "hearsay" on my end, there is nothing that can be done.

I furthermore expressed to her what a negative impact this has on work performance (i.e.sick time, lack of productivity, sexual harassment concerns etc.), and relations between employees who are impacted by the knowledge of the A. She completely agreed and stated that she would bring up this topic at their next Leadership committee meeting to see if any concrete policies/education could be put into place to "warn" employees about engaging in such relationships during company time. I asked her to keep me up to date on any developments and she said she would.

So, again, I think the exposure is officially complete. I just have to survive the storm for now.

I got an e-mail from my WH this morning asking again to see our DS. I find this to be so ironic since he doesn't even play with him or engage him while he's here. If he really cared about spending time with our DS, he would take him places or ignore me completely while he's here and focus solely on our DS. Since he doesn't do this, I assume that my WH is simply using the visitation as an excuse to berate me or feel me out to see what I'm thinking. I will remove myself from the situation to force the one on one time. I agree that allowing myself to be abused has done nothing but lead to more wayward behavior.