Thanks for your honesty and compliments. My WH really is being an idiot, I agree 100%. He couldn't care less that I am pregnant either. He only says "he's sorry" that I am going to have HIS baby. Nice huh?

I have thought a lot about whether or not to have him come to see our DD when she is born. I get a c-section on the 10th of October, but someone will need to stay with my DS while I'm at the hospital. I don't know if it would be better to have my mom watch our him or my WH. Either way I will make sure that my family is around me the whole time anyway. I don't think the WH will come see me unless he has our DS though. He is avoiding my family like the plague since this whole thing happened.

Also, I can't really do anything about my DS meeting the OW. At this point I have only two choices, allow my WH to come here for visitations (which I know leads to nothing but him sitting on his butt watching t.v., going outside to smoke, doing his laundry, cussing at me or spacing off day dreaming about the OW...anything but actually playing with my DS) or let my WH take him somewhere. I've chosen to let my DS go with him. Where exactly he's taking him, I don't know. He would only lie to me if I asked. There is nothing I can do except try to follow him to find out (and I do know where the OW has moved to and it's not far away).

But if I do find that my WH is taking our DS there, I have no legal recourse to prevent it at this time. My WH stated that he doesn't even want to bring our DS to the OW's house (who knows if that's true) and I almost believe him since it seems he wants to be able to pick and choose how much time he spends with her and will use any excuse or person to manipulate the situation to his advantage.

It's strange, but I almost think that if he brought our DS to the OW's house, it would force him to be a better dad (after all, he would have to show off his "daddy skills" for the OW in order to prove what a stellar father he really is). He might actually even play with him the whole time like a real dad would. Not just here and there like he does now.

I have run all of these scenarios in my mind over and over...that is the one draw back of having too much time: it can contribute to a fried brain.

So. Tried to have another conversation about this situation with the WH after he returned our DS from his visit. Apparently he took our DS shoe/hat shopping at the mall. He denied that the OW was there (probably not true though.)

Anyway. Still the same old story. I ask, he stares, says "I don't know" yada yada yada....leaves. My main questions to him were: How can you make this major life decision to be with another woman and not be able to discuss your expectations for your relationship in regard to children? He knows she wants more kids and he knows he doesn't. Why can't they be mature enough to discuss it? My second question was after all I've discovered about the OW (personality, history, physical appearance, etc.), I still don't get why she is worth ruining his life over. So I asked him what it was about her that made her "worth it". He said..."I don't know, I have to think about it. Is it bad that I have to think about it?" My immediate though was "YES!!!!", but I didn't say so. He said he would talk with me today about it. I'm not expecting any amazing insights though.

After speaking with the XBF for hours and hours on end, I've discovered that the OW is a real Vamp. It seems that she is a skilled flirt and uses her sexuality to really hook a guy. She puts on a the front of a "strong confident woman" and makes the guy feel that he is privileged to even be with her.

I was like "Wow, how can I compete with that?" I'm not that flirty type of girl, I haven't been since we first got together (14 years ago). I tried at first to be that way with my WH after I found out about the A., but he basically ignored my efforts.

So it seems the odds are definitely against me on every front. I still waiver between wanting the WH back and despising the man he is/has become. I think I just want him to stop rejecting me...maybe if he did, I would have an easier time getting over him. I don't know, I feel like a crazy woman half the time.

I did find out though, that my WH didn't actually file. He just scheduled his appointment with his attorney to file. The appointment is on October 23rd (13 days after I give birth to our DD). He said that if I filed, then his attorney would move up his appointment. I'm not going to do that because that would put me in a position where I had to deal with all these legal appointments right before or during the time I give birth (and that sounds like loads of fun). I will let him initiate it.

Anyway. If any new and profound information comes to light, I will post later today.

Sara,

Please consult YOUR attorney. I don't think waiting for him to make his play is the best thing. Often times in D cases the one who strikes first gets an advantage. It is not supposed to work that way but it often does.

Ask your attorney about filing first (he will not expect it and it just may shock some reality back into what's left of your HUSBAND, not WH). Seeing papers delivered to him claiming adultery, sole custody, child support, alimony, temporary/emergency hearing, naming OW in the papers, etc might wake him up. AND if nothing else protects you and children financially and a clause about not having OW around children should be in the papers.

I may be wrong and others may disagree but at least make a phone call to an attorney and ask them about this.

I've already consulted an attorney. I decided to get a new one though so when my WH files, I have a better advocate than the one I had. My first attorney stated that there was no advantage in Oregon to filing first. She actually said I was in a better position if I stalled since my WH would have to continue to pay the bills (as they are all in his name). She warned, though that if he stopped paying them I was to contact her right away, but so far everything has been kept current.

Also, in Oregon, there is only a no fault divorce, that means Adultery has no bearing on the case (unless you go before a judge and they let their impartiality slide a bit and rule in favor of one party over the other). Both my WH and I know pretty much what we will get out of this, it's just that the timing is incredibly bad for me since I will have just had a surgical procedure and a new born baby on top of legal stuff.

I will keep my appointment with my new attorney in September, but it will only be to lay out what I want from the D. I will then reschedule for the first part of November because I know I will definitely be served by then.

It will be a happy holiday season I'm sure.

Well. So a little update here. I talked with WH yesterday and he informed me that HR wanted to speak with him. He asked if I knew why and I said I didn't. HR talked with him today and offered him counseling. He asked why I lied or did not disclose my discussion with HR. I said I didn't lie, I really didn't know why they wanted to speak with him as I was told there was nothing that could be done about the relationship since there was no policy.

I told him that I spoke with HR to see if there was something that could be done to prevent this kind of thing from occurring in the future. He accused me of being "cunning" and he was pretty angry.

He also questioned me about my "relationship" with the OW's XBF. He said it was nothing more than sharing information on both of them and that the XBF lies and I am fake when when we speak to each other. My WH also accused me of "being more understanding" when it comes to the short comings of the XBF. I stated that I knew of his failings (i.e. drug abuse, etc.), but that I never excused his behavior.

Anyway, nothing but more anger hurled my way from the WH. I remained pretty calm and stated again, that I did not want the D. But that I wanted the old H. back and my family restored. I also said that I loved him and that was the reason I wanted to stay married. He told me "too bad" and said that he couldn't trust anything I said because I'm "messing with him" and that I'm "crazy" for disclosing his A. and talking with the XBF about it.

So, at least I tried to prevent the LB's from coming out, though I got a ton in return. I'm not sure the HR department chat helped me out any and I looked pretty bad because I didn't disclose upfront that I spoke with them. But I wasn't really sure what they would say to my WH, so I didn't want to spill the beans entirely.

All in all, it was another fruitless conversation. I don't see how my WH will ever talk with me again after this since he feels that everything he says goes right to the XBF.

What do I do about that?

Update:

My WH was very upset to discover that I also spoke with his boss about the A. About 2 days ago, he came over and basically gave me the "what for" about the exposure to his boss, HR, and the fact that's he and the OW have been pretty well harassed by the XBF. During his tirade, he basically threatened that he was never wanted to come back (no surprises there), he was going to take out half of our savings to fund his new apartment (which is impossible because I drew it out already and gave it to my mom for "safe keeping") and that he was going to stop paying the bills (which is ridiculous since I have already talked to my attorney and need only go down to his office to fill out paperwork to force temporary spousal support.)

After listening to his emotional battering for two hours, I had had enough and stated that when he was done "visiting" with our DS, I would be in the house.

I remained very calm during the exchange, but lost it and started crying when I came in the house. He followed me shortly after and immediately toned down. I asked him exactly what he expected of me in this situation. I am 7 months pregnant with a toddler, no job and my husband is leaving me. Am I supposed to hand every bit of money we have over to him and thank him for just supporting me?

He stopped barking at me for a minute and I was able to tell him that I didn't want the D. and that I was willing to work on our marriage to make it better than it was before. But I also told him that he would need to work to make it good as well. He told me, at this point, he's not willing to do that and rarely does he feel otherwise. It was nice to know that he has at least considered giving our marriage another chance (even if rarely). I asked him how he felt and he said he didn't want to tell me because it would only "hurt my feelings".

He had also once told me that he made the OW cry about 2 weeks after he left. I asked during his visit what he did that made her break down. He said that he told her that he didn't want to be with her because he wanted to come home. I asked him why he didn't and he said that I "did something" that made him reconsider (I guess I was LB or something DARN IT!!!). Anyway, that was very sad to find out. It was also very telling regarding the OW. Previously she told my WH to "go home and work it out with your wife". Then when he tells her two weeks later he wants to do just that, she cries for him to stay. Knowing about her character, though, this is hardly surprising. She won't let my WH without some serious effort.

Anyway.

Yesterday he came over and it was a considerably better visit. We were amiable, my WH ate dinner, and we even laughed together more than a few times over our DS's cuteness. It was actually like normal.

I asked him how he was going to fund his new place and he told me "he would figure it out". I asked him if that meant he wasn't going to make our mortgage payment and he denied that. But I will be sure to make the payment myself on payday to ensure that there are no lapses.

I also told him that I discovered there was nothing I could do to prevent our DS from staying overnight if my WH chose to move in with the OW. He stated that he did not want to live with her. His words were "that would not be a good idea". So it seems that he wants to live alone, not with the OW. That seems rather promising to me, but who knows.

I just got SAA in the mail yesterday and I am over half way done. I think that I am in the mental state at this point to be able to actually make a solid effort to Plan A. I realize at this point there is nothing left to do but be the best woman I can be and to try to meet the EN I failed to meet before. While I understand that my WH will not necessarily be receptive at this time, I still think I will be able to keep it up because I feel more at peace now. I've placed my turmoil at God's feet and He's given me His peace and I am thankful.

Now, I just have to pray, avoid the LB's, plan A and wait out the A. I realized that it has been over a month now since the A. began to be exposed. I read that most A.'s end in 6 months so I have 5 more to go before resorting to plan B. Since I waisted the first month LBing, I really have a lot to make up for.

It seems to me though, that after conversing with the XBF (who has been very helpful giving insights, but not very helpful being discreet about our discussions!!!), my WH and the OW are not as "compatible" as they would like everyone to believe. They have very different tastes in music, hobbies, and even in some general likes/dislikes. But what they DO have in common is a tendency toward self-centeredness, stubbornness, and inability to resolve conflicts without becoming irritable, withdrawn or angry. So they are in for a "stormy romance" when things get real for them.

My feeling is that these last few weeks have been the beginning of that realness. My WH stated that he is not happy and that his interactions with the OW aren't "all fun". They spend a lot of time talking about whether what they are doing is right. So it seems that they aren't depositing as many Love Units as they did at first. I am thrilled over that.

Keep praying for us and for me to be more even keeled. I think I'm going to be much better at this point just because of all I've learned so far.

So. I've been implementing a really solid plan A for the last week. I've noticed a considerable change in my WH. He's much more pleasant to be around and said that it seemed weird now because we were like "friends". I've gone out of my way to do little things that I think he would appreciate (buying/preparing his favorite dinners and inviting him over to eat and I just purchased a gift for him that he's been talking about). I don't want to over do it though. I'm scared that he's going to start cake eating and still not come around.

So far, he is reluctant to discuss why he wants to live alone even though he has made several comments about "being afraid of what he'll do" when he's by himself and that he doesn't like to be alone. He also told me that the OW REALLY wants him to live with her. But he is adamantly against it. He expressed some disappointment that she "doesn't care" that he's still married, though he would be bothered if he lived with her while still attached. He also said that he would probably "hate" her if he moved in with her since he worked with her all day long (and receives at least 10 text messages from her a day).

My WH also stated that he was shocked over some comments made by the OW that she wouldn't have cared if her XBF would have slept with anyone else while they were together. All in all, it was sort of a rag on the OW discussion, which I was surprised at.

But since he's been around her, my WH seems to be back in his reserved mode. He seems set on living alone still and won't discuss his reasons why (it's obviously still the OW despite her faults).

I feel pretty good about how I'm doing on Plan A. Even if my WH never returns (which will be very sad), I think I'm doing what's right by taking the moral high road and being kind. I try not to expect anything in return for the gestures I'm making, but I just don't want to get my hopes up.

Glad to see you're doing/feeling better.

"He seems set on living alone still and won't discuss his reasons why (it's obviously still the OW despite her faults)."

My WH did the same thing: balked at moving in with OW. I think they realize the adultery is less fun if they have to deal with too much reality; they would rather date the OP than live with them. Too bad most OW don't realize that - they are hoping the MM they are committing adultery with will divorce their wife to MARRY them! But apparently the WH's are more interested in just being single.

It's also about cake-eating. If the WH has his own place it's a lot easier for him to string both the BW and the OW along, keeping them both in his life as long as possible without having to make a choice.

Whatever he does, you play it to your advantage:
If he moves back home you do the best Plan A that you can until it's time to go to Plan B (if he doesn't end A).
If he moves in with OW you do the best Plan A that you can while he gets to see OW up close with all her flaws (not fantasy/date behavior).
If he has his own place you do the best Plan A that you can while OW tries to pressure him into moving in with her and tries to prevent him from visiting you (he won't like such controlling behavior from her).

Again, in my situation WH had his own place that he most certainly did not want to give up. A WH in that situation will be very reluctant to give up his cake-eating. Mine managed to convince himself that arrangement could/should become permanent... He had no luck convincing me and OW of that though LOL. Still, I let him cake-eat long enough to do a very good Plan A. PLUS: the longer the WH stays involved in any way with the BW, the more the OW will try to control the WH. Plan A doesn't last forever but it should IMHO last long enough to cause the OW to start acting like a jealous nag LOL. You will want the honeymoon phase of their adultery to be just a fading memory when you get to Plan B.

"I feel pretty good about how I'm doing on Plan A. Even if my WH never returns (which will be very sad), I think I'm doing what's right by taking the moral high road and being kind."

Very GOOD!

"I try not to expect anything in return for the gestures I'm making, but I just don't want to get my hopes up."

Also, good. When you start expecting something in return is when you start getting hurt and angry. Just remember that Plan A isn't meant to last forever. And when Plan A is over you will want to know you did the best Plan A you could.

Thanks MM for your replies. It helps to talk to someone whose been there and made it through. You obviously have good insight.

I am doing much better than I was. I haven't cried for about a week now and feel much more optimistic about the future since I know God will take care of us no matter what happens.

As for the Plan A stuff, I read an article on here somewhere that plan A is about competing with the OP and trying to have an affair with your WS. This is a very interesting take on the whole thing, but hard b/c you really have to put yourself out there when you are already feeling rejected.

I'm sort of pleased that the OW is so "clingy" with my WH (calling him off and on all day long, text messages, and expecting to see him after work every day even though they saw each other all day), I can tell it grates on him from time to time.

She also told him that she wants to marry and have children with him. He informed her that he did not want anymore children and said she got really upset.

Anyway, it seems that they are not on the same page and they both know it. I'm glad to know that the honeymoon period appears to be waning a bit. I just hope that my WH postpones filing for the D. in October. That would at least show he was interested in a possible reconciliation. I'm going to try to do my best plan A until that time, but I think that if he files, I will be pretty upset and may need to withdraw for a few days/weeks.

I really can't do a plan B right away after he files b/c I want him to see our newborn daughter as much as possible. I will have to be present for those visits, but it's going to hurt like mad to know that he actually filed.

My WH is actually planning to spend the night with us this weekend, I'm not sure if the OW knows this or not. I hope to do an awesome Plan A during that time and see what happens. Wish me luck.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Ok. So my WH came over tonight and admitted that the EA became a PA a few weeks ago. He said he basically hates himself and in "an ideal world" he would want to stay married to me, but since he knows that he could never forgive me for doing this to him if he were in my place, our marriage can't be saved. He said the A. would always be in our faces everyday and that we could never get over it.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I've stated that I still love him and would be willing to work on our marriage, but he is the one that is unwilling still. He's kept his distance from the OW physically, but calls her often. He told her he doesn't want to be anyone's boyfriend but she is simply waiting him out until he comes back around.

So, what can I do? If he won't even attempt to work things out because of his guilt, how can I do anything? Please advise if anyone can shed some light on this.

Hang in there and keep Plan A'ing him. I think he is expressing in words his fears that you would hold this over his head and not be able to forgive him. Actually I think your situation is getting much more promising.

Ask him to speak by phone to Steve Harley ASAP while the iron is hot. Tell him to just listen for one hour to what Steve has to say with no commitment on his part except to listen with an open mind.

Get him to do this!

IMO, this is a good thing. He is guilty! What more are you looking for? When my WH did this to me he was looking for my forgivness over and over. He wanted to be sure that I would really forgive him. Now remember, this is still going to be a time of back and forth for him, but IMO this shows that he is leaning more towards you. You are doing a good plan A. Here is your chance to really show him you care. And most importantly he told her that he doesn't want to be her boyfriend. They are back to just phone calls. Remember the more he backs off the more she will cling to him and the more he will run to the one who isn't trying to control him. What worked best for me was a friendly detachment. I showed concern, but not alot of concern. A "whatever you do I will support you" attitude was my best weapon. It's very hard to maintain, but I think he is looking to see if you will continue your attitude or if he can find the chink in your armor.

Thanks for the posts...you guys have been really helpful in sticking with me. I don't think my WH will call Steve Harley right now.

I asked him last night what he wanted to do...marriage counseling, working on the marriage, or what. He didn't say anything, just that he was tired and needed to "go to bed". So he left and said he would talk with me today. I told him that when he decided what he wanted to do, to let me know.

I am a little afraid though that this is an elaborate way to "let me down easy". I checked the cell phone log (which he doesn't know I have access to) and found out that he called the OW on his way home and talked to her for 25 minutes. What they were talking about is anyone's guess.

His disclosure could be his way of trying to make me not want him back, not because he's guilty. He kept asking me over the last month if his sleeping with the OW would make a difference in me wanting him back, all I've ever replied to that question was "maybe". Since he told me last night, I've been wondering if he was trying to end our relationship permanently or if he was honestly trying to tell me that he loved me and made a mistake.

The phone call to the OW for 25 minutes leads me to believe that he was trying to end my efforts and that his distance from the OW was just a temporary guilt response. Now that he knows that I am STILL willing to work on the relationship (I told him last night that I had already assumed they slept together, though I had hoped they hadn't), I think he may be honest and say that he really doesn't want to be with me anymore but does want the OW. I don't know...I'm worried.

So, the WH is very frustrating to talk with. After dropping his bomb last night and saying he would want to be married to me if there was no chance the affair would be a constant factor, he now says he's unsure. He stated before he was 100% sure he wanted the D., now he is 60% sure. He was surprised over his change of heart (I guess a 40% drop was a big deal to him?).

Anyway, he is always like this when he is around or talks with the OW. She fills his head with "it'll be ok's" and "everything will work out for us"...and he waivers. He absolutely does not want to be a dad to her daughter, but he is so hooked on her, he can't seem to let go. He is concerned that if he made the decision to come home work would be a big problem, but he is unwilling to look for a new job. He is also unwilling to give me any sort of encouragement but says he wants to stay neutral because it's "easier".

He also said he doesn't want move home because he's afraid he'll regret it and leave again because he'll miss the OW too much. I pointed out that if he decided to marry the OW, he would probably miss us everyday but if he came home, he would probably struggle at first, but that he would get over her after a while. This seemed to go in one ear and out the other even though he agreed with me when I said it.

So basically, he still wants his apartment so he can be alone when he wants to, wants to have the option to date the OW until he no longer likes her, wants to stay married for a while "just in case" it doesn't work out with the OW, but doesn't want me to wait for him because that would be unfair. I'm trying not to get lost in his fog, but seriously, this is crazy making.

So I'm not sure how to keep plan A'ing him at this point, because his revelation of the PA has made him even more distant than before. He hugs me still, but the little flirtations that we were having have now ceased. Even though he said he would still spend the night (Friday only now), he was grouchy and mopey. Hopefully the fog will lift by the weekend. It seems that when he's not around the OW, he's much closer to my old H.

My frustration is that he refuses to make any sort of decision. I told him that I would rather try to make the marriage work and fail, then to not have tried at all. He agreed, but still made no declaration that he was willing to do anything but wait around and see what happens. Uhhhgg!!!

He asked me if I felt better after we talked. I said, not really because there was still nothing decided. I said I would just wait to hear what he wanted to do, but he rolled his eyes. I asked him if I had some how missed his decision somewhere in our conversation and he didn't say anything but left shortly there after. I am very irritated right now and I am glad that he won't be coming back today. It gives me a break from his irrational thought process for a while.

Saralynn;

He will waffle around forever. He does not want to make a choice. He will not make a decision. He wants both of you.
He HAS what he wants right now, and he will feed a little bit to both of you to keep it.

Plan A. Meet ALL of his needs to the BEST of your ability. Change what needs to be changed on your side with no expecations, just because it needs to be done. No relationship talk. Expose the affair to everyone. Tell him your truth -- that you love him and want it to work, and his affair hurts you very much.

Set a deadline. At the end of the deadline, if he is still involved in the affair, go to Plan B. End all contact with him. When the baby is here set a schedule for "visits" but no glimpse or family time with you.

Have you read about the plans? Why would you push your WH who is out of his mind to make decisions for YOUR life?
Crazy. Why would you put HIM in charge of what happens?

Why not show him what a great wife you are. Meet all of his needs. Be the woman he fell in love with. Flirt with him. If he doesn't respond to that -- then YOU make decisions for YOU. Don't let him control this process. He's nuts, do you really trust him to make good decisions right now????

SaraLynn,

I mostly have good HINDSIGHT (not insight) LOL
I pretty much learned from experience...
My WXH was a serial adulterer, so I had the 'opportunity' to try several different responses to his adulteries.
I made plenty of mistakes and try to help others maybe have a better outcome than mine. Ultimately he did divorce me and it appears reconciliation is no longer an option for us.

Your WH is definitely showing signs of coming out of the fog (warning: the fog sometimes takes a while to clear completely so don't be shocked or dismayed if he slips back into the fog) but overall this is good news!

He's admitting the extent of the relationship and he's also admitting that he and OW are not compatible in some ways, don't have the same agendas.

You could tell your WH about MB requirements for recovery:
no contact between WH and OW, WH sends a no contact letter to OW, make an appointment with MC who knows and endorses MB principles, etc.

WH may honestly be wondering if you will be able to forgive him and/or he may honestly worry that the damage he's done is something that simply can't be repaired...
or... WH may be trying to get you to agree to just pretend nothing happened so he doesn't have to do any recovery work. Watch how he reacts when you assure him that recovery is possible IF he says/does the things HE needs to do; if he balks at any of the requirements and hints that the responsibility will fall on YOU to just forgive and forget, or 'get over it', then he's not ready yet.

If/when he's really ready to recommit to you he will want to do whatever it takes to help you trust again.

Unless he's willing to tell the OW he will have no further contact with her and to start working on recovery, just stay in Plan A a little longer. Whatever you do don't let him skip the no contact letter to OW. He may plead that it would be too embarrassing for him or too hurtful for her...It has to be done. Sending the no contact letter to OW is what got OW#6 totally out of our lives. My WH's refusal to send a no contact letter to OW#7 is what derailed our best recovery attempt (it would have offended and angered OW so much that she would not have taken him back again). In hindsight I see that 'recovery' attempt was just my WH lying to me and our daughters so he could come home to spend Christmas with us. He assured me that no contact letter to OW wasn't necessary because OW was supposedly so angry with him that she most certainly would never have anything more to do with him... In reality he didn't intend to quit cake-eating entirely, he thought he could break up with her to come home to me then break up with me to go back to her (repeat indefinitely). Once I went to Plan B he (finally) realized the cake-eating of Plan A was over but he thought he'd come up with a clever Plan B way to cake-eat (called false recovery).

Again, he is showing some encouraging signs. Stick to your plan and respond accordingly. Expect some setbacks and try not to react to them with anger and LBing. Don't get your hopes so high that you have a long way to come down if/when he fogs up again.

Lexxi-

Thank you for your response. I don't want him making decisions for me, but for us. I want him to come out of his delusional relationship and fight for our family instead of being a noodle. I know, it's a lot to expect, but it just hurts to think that such progress was made last night about him wishing we could save our marriage and admitting to the PA, and now back tracking.

MM-

Thanks for the hindsight :-). I'm sorry that you had to go through this more than once (7 times seems just insane).

I was thinking about letting him visit our DS tomorrow and then getting dressed up and going out somewhere (like the movies or to get a smoothie and go to a park or something.) He doesn't need to know where, just that I'm going out for a while. It's really hard to feel like a sexy woman when you are 8 months pregnant (I just reached the 32 week milestone today!), but I'm tired of feeling like the "left overs". Maybe he will notice something or want to come who knows.

I'm also tired of him sloughing his responsibility in every corner. Our DS hasn't seen him more than a few hours a day (most times it's less than 2 hours with days where he doesn't visit at all). It's heartbreaking to hear our DS say "daddy go home?" I think the longer my WH is away, the more "single" he feels. It seems like he cannot tolerate being around for more than a few hours before he has to leave. I think that has a lot to do with his reluctance to come home as well. He's been able to come and go as he pleases for over a month now and I think the independence is growing on him.

I plan to do a solid Plan A until 1/1/08. I just have my bad days because I do get my hopes so high (especially after what he said last night). I was really hoping this would be the time when the fog had lifted, but it seems that it was only a temporary clearing.

Also, I told him that if he wanted to come home and get over the OW, it would be difficult at first, but not impossible.

I told him about the NC and radical honesty that would be needed to get us over the initial hurdles. He listened, but was unsure he would be able to make such a commitment.

So I guess it's more waiting and hoping that the temporary suspension of the PA can last until he makes his choice. I don't have high hopes for that though. If they've done it a few times already, what's to stop them from continuing now? Nothing except my guilt inducing Plan A. Who knows how long that will last?

Just read your latest post.

Stay in Plan A.

Do not try to talk to him about your relationship or about OW. Detach - feign disinterest - yawn even - then change the subject.

It's too early to talk to him about what he will need to do for recovery. He's still too foggy. He is incapable of making rational decisions right now anyway. And as already pointed out you don't want to hand your decision-making power over to him. You're not ready to go to Plan B yet, you're still building on your Plan A (the firm foundation for your Plan B).

There's a very real competition starting between you and the OW right now. Her unfair disadvantage is ending:
She can no longer count on secrecy working to her advantage, buying her time to get her claws in deeper, you know and she knows you know. Exposure to others is very important too in ending the fantasy phase of their adultery. Before she had little to no competition to worry about but now she knows she does. It will be very difficult for her to be faky sweet, all fun and games, anymore. She's going to pull out the big guns now. With any luck on your part she will make the huge mistake of becoming demanding and jealous with your WH. She will make the mistake of shifting from HAVING a relationship with him to trying to get him to TALK about their relationship. She might even give him an ultimatum.

Sooooo... you just stick to Plan A, avoid relationship talk, don't try to get him to make a decision, don't give him any ultimatum (yet - not until Plan B). You want to just enjoy his company when he comes over. Even if he brings up relationship talk just listen briefly before changing the subject to something positive and casual. Don't forget that whatever crazy thing he says it's all just blah-blah anyway.

Also beware of him trying to bait you into an argument. He doesn't want to make a choice partly because he may want to continue cake-eating, but even in his (slightly) more noble moods, when he realizes he has to choose, he may try to get you to settle the issue for him by making you so upset that you reject him (and then it's not his fault he goes back to OW).

Stick to Plan A.