It has been a rough week and a half since my last update. My WW and I have had one session together with Steve Harley and one each alone. We are scheduling another joint session for later in the week. Steve would like to lay out a plan for us.

But my WW says she will not even try to work on the concepts from MB. My WW has read a lot of the MB information. I printed out all of th BC for her to read. She says she can understand it all logically, but that there is NO WAY she will ever be able to have Romantic Love for me. She is willing to stay together, for the kids, and show Caring Love (be a housewife/domestics), but not RL. She says it is impossible in her situation. She can not and will not forget the past.

I know I will be trying all I can to do as Steve and MB advise. Hopefully she will eventually come around. Can I really live indefinetly without RL from my wife? Without any respect for the person who I have become (not who I was) or without any of my EN met except domestics? I fear there may come a day when I have to make that choice.

Asking for your continued prayers.

Hope,

I hate to say it but despite all that you have said your wife doesn't sound like a Christian to me.

The cornerstone to Christianity is forgiveness. Christ died on the cross so that you could be forgiven. (And so that she could be forgiven for that matter)

But as others have said this is just her rationalization for her bad behavior.

Maybe you could speak to your pastor and ask him for a sermon on forgiveness

What she is saying is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't matter what she says. If she continues to have no contact with the neighbor, and you step up and meet her emotional needs, her feelings will change.

Don't despair, H; she is saying the same stuff every wayward says. Don't pay it any mind because a falling down drunk [her exact state of mind right nhow] has no idea how she will feel once she sobers up. Your wife is confused and will feel completely different once she comes out from under the spell.

Once all contact ends and she withdraws from the OM, she will be talking a different story. Just focus on keeping her away from the OM and it will come together.

Is the OM staying away? Is she staying away from the OM?

Hope:

Your wife's words right now are expected.

When she looks at the MB stuff, it doesn't paint a pretty picture of her activities.

Later, if you keep working it, and living an MB life, and NC is maintained, SHE will GET IT.

It took you a long time to get here, it will take a while to get back.

But it is the right path.

And if your leading, you have the best chance ever.

LG

"She says it is impossible in her situation. She can not and will not forget the past."

As the others have already responded: it's fog-talk, addict babble, blah-blah-blah...

And actually she HAS forgotten the past: How she really did love you once, romantic love, 'in love'... Plus wasn't it fairly recently when she was assuring you that your concerns about OM were ungrounded, that they were 'just friends'? You're the sane one with an intact memory, don't worry too much about what she's babbling.

Also, I think part of the reason the WS's make such extreme and final-sounding proclamations is because they are trying to quiet their own doubts about what they're doing. Justification can mean: "I really want this so I will pretend it's OK by using (crazy-sounding) rationalizations in order to get what I want"

and/or justification can mean: "Oh my God look at what I've done, this is so unlike me, the OP must be really special and the marriage to the BS just a mistake in order for me to justify this (craziness/sleaziness)"

(OK rest of this post I'm off on a rant LOL)

Of course these rationalizations by the WS are really hard on the BS. The WS will pretend that the BS is much less worthy, attractive, satisfying, whatever, than the OP. The OP of course will bask in this distorted appraisal for obvious reasons. Plus the OP will be telling the WS that they are far too good for the BS. It's all very childish really... (WS to OP: "You are much better than my BS" OP to WS: "You are too good for BS") Of course neither wants to admit they are lunatic liars. And in their lunacy, they just can't seem to grasp why the BS isn't willing to agree with their distorted assessments of everyone involved!

Weirdness man! IMHO people who are involved in adultery should be remanded to some sort of rehab program until their sanity returns. It's an addiction right? Why is it so socially acceptable for this particular type of addict to inflict such immense emotional and financial harm on their spouse and children?!? If a marriage and family are destroyed because Mommy or Daddy is a crack addict the courts certainly wouldn't be granting visitation rights let alone custody of the children to the addict! For that matter why is the addict allowed to take a legal action as serious as divorce while under the influence of an addiction?

WOW MM - dats a good rant!! Totally agree.

HNH

MM has put it together for you in a nutshell…Great stuff MM!!...

You need to remember that an affair is an ADDICTION. Addicts(of anything drugs, alcohol, porn, video games…whatever) will use whatever it takes to rationalise their behaviour to themselves and other addicts. She is not capable of rational thought at the moment as she is fogbound. That will start to lift as NC is started and maintained. Also be prepared for her to go thru ‘withdrawl’ from the drug….Dr Harley talks about this in his articles on this site.

That is why NC is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to ending that A and her/your M’s recovery. One family must move FAR away. I remember having those feelings you mention…about her not feeling romantic love for you etc. They WILL return once NC has been established a while and you are doing the best you can to meet her Ens.

She may also be feeling like her pride has been destroyed, she is a horrible person, she thinks the shame she would be too much for her to bear after what has happened…..she is scared where to go from here…she is very uncertain…if you can assure her that you will be there for her, that would help…She wants a knight in shining armour to rescue her from this mess…Be that knight.

HNH, I am not trying to minimise your hurt here by saying the above. I am just trying to show you that what she is thinking/saying is textbook WS stuff, and why it is happening. She had NO RIGHT to do what she did to you or your children, but everyone is a victim to a degree here. You guys can work this out with God’s help..Don’t let the devil win, he’ll try real hard to destroy your family.

Be the Man God has called you to be here..put on the armour!!

Mrs K

"She is willing to stay together, for the kids, and show Caring Love (be a housewife/domestics), but not RL. She says it is impossible in her situation... Can I really live indefinetly without RL from my wife? Without any respect for the person who I have become (not who I was) or without any of my EN met except domestics? I fear there may come a day when I have to make that choice."

Actually, if your wife really does stay with you AND shows 'caring love' towards you (AND has no contact with OM) then she is highly likely to feel romantic love towards you again someday. It's that consistency principle thing:
the way a person treats another person is usually consistent with the way they feel towards them. Treatment can be determined by feelings AND feelings can be determined by treatment.

Adulterers think they must be 'in love' mostly because they are feeling/saying/doing things they thought THEY would never do with somebody they didn't love...

MM,





Oh, that is sooooo true, never heard it put so clearly!

Who

Just checking to see if you are OK?

Has WW stopped all contact with OM?

Has church arranged for people to help OM with his farm chores?

Have you exposed A to everyone you can think of?

How are your children doing?

MM, thanks for checking in on me. WW refuses to get past the wrongs I have done. Specifically, in our sexual relationship. I have had lust in my heart and let it come into our relationship. Although I was never with another woman during our entire marriage, she feels because I lusted after them, as the Word says, to look on a woman is adultery, she is justified in separating and wanting a divorce. I know that if this were true, every married woman would be justified to divorce, as this is a huge problem for men. I let it get a hold of me, and it has caused us both great pain. But I am not that man any longer. God has changed my heart and I want to rebuild our marriage, for His glory. WW is still in contact with OM. It is much less than before, but she will not stop contact.

I did many things that I am not proud of in our relationship, and they hurt her very badly. That hurt, and lack of meeting other needs for her caused her to seek out the relationship that she found in OM. That being said, I know that my past actions DO NOT make her affair right. All I know is, we are BOTH to blame for our problems. When I try to tell her that her relationship with OM is part of the problem, she just says that my past actions ARE THE ONLY PROBLEM. Last week she confessed that her relationship with OM was wrong, and asked my forgiveness. She also told me then, that she could only see separation and divorce in our future. She later came to me and told me that she was wrong to say that (divorce), and that she did not want to limit God. She says she has forgiven me for what I have done, but at the same time she still holds great hate for me. I know God can do miracles, but she says she has NO desire to ever work on our marriage. At this point, she is resolved that she cannot stay living with me. She wants to have a separation. She wants us to work on our individual problems and seek counsel for them. This may very well be the start of healing, and although it could take years, with God, I have hope that we can still be together again someday (even though right now she feels we cannot). Although with her still in contact with OM, I know she will never come out of it. How can I enforce NC during separation? Does this mean I have just left Plan A and am into Plan B?

We will be working out the separation details in the coming days. Please continue to pray! Pray for our children. I cry to think about it. I don't know what is best to do, but I told her if she must leave, then we must share equal time with the children. And we think is it best if the kids stay at home and we each find a place to stay when the other is at home?? She is trying to find a place to stay for now in the area. I will have to do the same. I think at first we will switch weekly? I didn't think my heart could break more than it has for years now, but it is. May God sustain me through the storm. He is my only strength and security.

Well, she can babble about whatever she wants to, but the fact is that CONTACT with the other man is what is keeping her from working on your relationship. Separation is the kiss of death for a relationship. Don't allow it.

Contact the other man, church, friends, etc, and expose the affair. Until she has NC with him, things will continue to go down hill.

OK...do you want to recover your marriage, or do you want to divorce?

Seperation is done in preperation for divorce. If you agree to this...you know full well she'll simply continue her affair with OM.

What do you WANT...and what's your plan for getting there?

hopeful, your plan only serves to ENABLE the affair at the expense of your marriage and your childrens family. Cooperating in the destruction of your marriage will result in..........the destruction of your marriage and family.

First off, your wife will say and do anything to assume her affair, so don't even try to make sense of what she tells you. It is all the fogbabble of someone who is under the spell of an addiction. The answer to marital problems, OBVIOUSLY, is not adultery, so you can see she is talking crap. This is a TEMPORARY state of mind that will go away once her affair is over.

That is why you mustn't cooperate with any divorce or seperation schemes. Part of her fantasy is that you will cooperate with her seperation and go down easy while she carries on her affiar. In order for this to work, she needs you to play NICE and be her "friend." She needs you to FINANCE HER AFFAIR and give her favorable visitation so she doesn't have to feel guilty about destroying your marriage and family. She needs you to be her "friend" so she won't feel so bad.

But, it is not in ANYONE'S BEST INTEREST for you to cooperate. She needs to know that destroying your marriage and family will come at a HUgE COST. She will have to fight for absolutely every thing. Knowing this will BURST HER BUBBLE and cause her to have SECOND THOUGHTS.

If you cooperate, though, you are cooperating in the destruction of your family and marriage. Do not hand her the desruction of your family on a silver platter. STAND UP AND DEFEND YOUR FAMILY. Make her WORK to destroy your marriage. Don't be like the FRENCH with a PRE-EMPTIVE SURRENDER.

Therefore, I would suggest the following:


1. DO NOT,under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, leave your home. NOT EVEN FOR A NIGHT. If she wants to abandon her children and husband [and I want you to use this terminology] then she will be the one to leave

2. Do not pay for her affair lair, make her get a job and pay the rent on her den of inequity. You should not finance her affair in any way. Don't pay for her car, car insurance, plates, etc. Don't pay her alimony

3. Don't allow her to take the kids around the OM, an unfit adult. This is how little kids get molested.

4. don't allow your kids to spend the night in her affair lair unless by court order. encourage her to visit the kids in your home or take them out to dinner

5. if she threatens to file, politely let her know that you will countersue for adultery, calling the OM as a witness to get the affair on record. Let her know you will go for FULL CUSTODY and complete control of the house and furniture

6. Expose the affair every where you can AGAIN. Contact the OM's pastor, his parents, his siblings and ask them for their help in keeping this sleaze away from your wife. Expose to everyone else, especially your children.

I would also suggest that you put your house on the market and get out of there if you want to EVER save your marriage. Your wife cannot withdraw living next door to the OM. When she moves out, you will get to witness her nocturnal visits to the OM for YEARS. Is that how you want to live?

Equal time? That is not in the best interest of your children. You should have PRIMARY CUSTODY and your wife should get limited visitation since she has lost her mind and is not looking out for the best interest of the children.

If she wants EQUAL TIME, make her go to court, PAY A LAWYER with her own funds and fight for it.

I would suggest that you HIDE all joint assets before she wipes you out financially. And she WILL do that given the chance.



ABSOLUTELY NOT. If she wants to split up, then she has to move. Unless you want the OM sleeping in your bed when you are gone? This would be a dreadful mistake that will cost you dearly. DO NOT leave your house. SHE LEAVES, not you.

Dead on balls accurate advice Mel.

thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please listen to Mel. I know it sounds scary. I am sure your WW is telling you that you are too controlling. That you are trying to control her life,and that has been the whole probelm all along. And this is further proof.
But that is just sin talking -straight from the pit.

thing is, you WANT to be married. You WANT to be a full time dad, and husband. You want to stay in your lovely home. She is the one who wants out. She has all ready said that she can only see D in her future. The best thing you can do for her is to show her the reailty of D.What it really feels like. She would not be able to come and go from your home any longer. She would have to get a job - I am sure you make a decent living, but you would not/could not provide for 2 households. She is the only one who wants a D - so let her see what it really feels like.

Tough love. Tell her that you have had some time to think about it, and pray about it (please do) and you realize that you do no want a D. At all. You want to build a new, better M. With her. The wife of your youth. And you understand her desire to move out, and have some time to herself. But you feel it is importnat for the kids to have stabilty in their life. And right now, you are the stability they need. So you will stay firmly planted in your home, and she is free to move out.

She will be furious - you are controlling her, blah blah. But please understand - this is the most loveing thing you can do for her right now. To let her experience the divorced life - before she actually gets divorced.

I know you are scared - walking on eggshells around her. But if you go along with this plan - moving back and forth in your own home - you will grow really disgusted with her. AND - prepare yourself. She is going to see OM as soon as she moves out. the day will come, when your kids will say "OM came to dinner with us last night" and you will be furious with her - and him. It would be best for to be in your own home when that day comes. If you are living in some cheap apartment with lawn chairs for furniture you will rapidly lose your love for her.

This A will eventually end. The question is - can you hang onto your love for her long enough, so that you will still want her?

By the way - have you read James Dobsons "Love Must Be Tough"? It might be helpful to you.