LIFECHOICE,

I remember a few weeks ago when you said you were going to jump into this MB thing with both feet. Glad you did.

Your insight for Limbo has been so helpful ..... for me as well as her. It's so hard to see a friend in need and not know what to say. Your position and suggestions about future 'plans of avoidance' sound great. Thank you.

So, LC, how has your decision affected you and your healing?

LIMBO,

How's it going today? I know that the feeling of intercepting what OW says seems calming for some reason. But LC's suggestion to 'send a message of rejection from your H' would be very effective.

Our OW did not pursue....my H was always the one to initiate reconnection efforts according to him and his email history and her words. But she would never tell me she would resist him and inform me of his attempt. That's why I reconnected with her after D-Day #4.

After I exposed to her husband, the need to email her had to end. BUT I went through heavy withdrawal. It was sort of like a 'fix' .......I needed to try to assure myself (falsely) that if she was emailing me, that she would not respond to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

The sooner you cut off your 'fix' the easier it will be for your recovery to progress. Radical honesty would mean that if your H asks you if you've intercepted any of her messages, you would have to say 'yes'.....and that would set HIM back in his withdrawal.

There must be a way to block her account and deflect future emails so she gets the right message. Informing her supervisor would be helpful, too.

Hope today goes well and things continue to improve.

Acey

I agree with him being able to bann her from caring for his patients. Sometimes it's difficult but if the supervisor knows the reason, and too bad for the humiliation for him in having to explain it, then they should be able to facilitate it. Hope your doing okay today.

FTS

Hey Limbo,

Did you guys counsel with SH today? How'd it go?

Ace

Hi,

We did. It went OK. SH pushed H on the issue of showing remorse. He told me some things privately, and then talked to H privately. I do not know what H's assignment is.

OW sent another email yesterday, saying simply "ily and I'm crying." Thank God H did not read it. He is calling me more often during the day. This morning, as he did most mornings on our vacation, he woke up and held me and said "I love you and I really am sorry." It is hard not to flash on his over the top emoting romancing of OW emails when he does that. KWIM?

I asked H to articulate what his plan is if she shows up at his office (esp. after hours.)

I walked away form the car dealership yesterday after a lowball offer on my trade. Frustrating, but later research confirmed I was right. we'll see if they call back (I've had that happen after walk-aways before) or if I find someone else who really wants to make their quotas this month. If not, c'est la vie.

LL,

We used to do that, too...DH and me.

"What are you going to do if...

she calls?

Comes to your store?

If you see her somewhere?"

What are you gonna do game. I'd listen and nod.

"What if someone asks you about her?"

And these promised responses stay in effect for a lifetime.

My DH hadn't been asked or answered that last one...and then it happened, about six months ago (2.5 years after)...and he told me after it happened...and he changed the subject, didn't answer...so he had a plan, anyway...still in effect.

Still affecting.

No being caught unprepared, unaware...which protects our weaknesses and our reactivity...honors the marriage.

Stop reading OW's emails...do what you've been advised...block her email address...or have them automatically forwarded to one of your accounts, print out and store...erase...do not dwell where you have no control...that's you wiping out the love bank deposits your FWH is making...proving him right, btw, that you won't get through this...so why try?

Don't prove him right. You and SH are telling him that NC means he'll get over the addiction. He'll re-train his thoughts...choose his life...and I don't think you're into telling somebody what to do and not doing the same yourself...

Are ya?

LA

PS...I don't see you addressing exposure, either. Now that you read her emails...that makes you an accomplice to lying to OWH. You're actively withholding that his WS is spouting gibberish ILYs and crying over another man.

Hi, Limbo.

Love the new car thing!! I hope you end up getting what you want. Way to go on holding your own with the dealership ... I'm so impressed. When we bought our car a little while ago, I got way too excited and they very much got the better of me. But it's all good, I love it. It's fun and fast and very distracting to get to play with ... not at all like my old mini-van. Hope yours is just as fun and distracting and exciting when it comes through for you!


Have you thought anymore about bouncing OW's e-mails? Seems like the ultimate response to her little "feel sorry for poor little sweet loving me" is "You and your message wwere REJECTED. No one even cares enough to read anything you have to say!" (obviously that's a little bit of a paraphrase, but I'd think that message would be pretty loud in response to her little declaration of love.)

And then you wouldn't have to get sliced at by her drivel, either. I can't imagine how furious, hurt, sad, etc. it would make me feel to read something like that.

I guess the downside would be if she knows that those messages aren't getting through, then maybe she'd try to find another way to contact him. I don't know. Maybe a restraining order, or a nice threatening letter from an attorney ..... "My client has asked you not to contact him, yet you continue to do so. Any further attempts will result in my client filing a restraining order and harassment charges against you."

I guess those are actions that your H would need to take, but since he hasn't seen the e-mails, and presumably hasn't gotten any other contact from her .... he may not (hopefully does not) know that it's coming in. So he wouldn't know there is a need for further actions to prevent it.


When is your next surgery scheduled? Will the recovery time for that be the same as the last one? Maybe this will be his chance to redeem himself a little from not being so helpful after the last one.

Maybe with enough oportunities, he'll be able to start seriously showing remorse and start ramping up the romantic emoting with YOU.

I'm really, really pulling for you! Wish there was something helpful I could do.

-AmI.

How about forwarding the e-mails unread directly to her husband???

Stick to your guns on the value of your trade and remember, they always are more willing to deal on the 30th than the 22nd, they still have 10 more days to get their end of month quota and bonus.

What does SH say about you intercepting the e-mails and not discussing with WH? Should it be a joint blocking, are you DJ'ing or being secretive in reading these without his knowledge? Don't mean to stir the pot, just wondering what SH take on this is?

Hope you are doing well.

FTS

Hi, My reading/deleting the emails was H's suggestion. He has asked me not to tell him about their contents unless they contain threats to safety.

SH does know about the email arrangement. I'm thinking about what everyone has said about blocking. Right now, it gives me a window into whether either of them really believes it is over to be able to read them.

Car-I do know the end of the month is the bargaining sweet spot. I am having surgery the 31st. Looking so forward to that! My guess is the dealer wants to see if he can sell his remaining 07s this weekend-- the 08s are supposed to be delivered starting Saturday. Who will be hungry still after the weekend? I don't know. If I can't work it on this one, there are 2 other models/brands that would meet my needs. (Mostly, a TON of back seat room for DS 13, who is growing, has huge, clumsy feet, and melts down over sensory discomforts that most people wouldn't even notice.)Anyway, I am sure that somebody out there would like to sell me something I would like to have, but I don't have a ton of time or energy to follow through much after the next few days.

Exposure. Guys, I am going to stick with the Harley advice I am paying for. I do hear and understand all of your arguments. I do. And I have made my preparations for exposure. But it is going to wait.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have a mini-van for sale .... lots of rear-seat leg room! And very comfy seats. And separate climate control for the back seat, your DS could pick his own temperature. I'll give ya a good deal on it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL

That was my walk-away solution when the dealership wanted to haggle prices over my trade-in. Forget it, I'll sell it myself, just give me my new car!

Sigh ..... I got a little over-excited, I guess. Could have written "sucker" on my forehead. I am sure you will do much better than I did! You sound totally prepared and researched and with it. Happy bargaining!!!


What kind of preparations do you have going for the surgery? Same fun stuff as last time? Do you get to go to the same recovery spa again? How are you feeling? Are you up to adding the physical pain on top of the emotional stuff you're going through now?

-AmI.

In Limbo,

Just a friendly warning here.

If I were you I would save at least one message with the ILY and such in it. I met a lady on another board, her H is a physican and his AP was the receptionist in the office. Their lawyer advised them to keep a little evidence that it was a consensual relationship because he was in a higher position and she could try to sue him for sexual harassment.

If the OW starts to freak out, she may try that avenue.

Did SH mention why he wanted you to hold off on the exposure? I certainly would trust him on it, I'm just curious.

LC

I am past the mini van days, but am going for an SUV. With back seat climate control. And other assorted bells and whistles. I have been looking since last fall. Drove my H crazy that I took so long to decide. But I wasn't "ready."

Surgery--I have to have new blood tests but don't have to go through the "interesting" abdominal prep this time-- this is upper body only. I saw before pictures again this week when he was making new "after" pictures-- I can't believe the difference. I've forgotten what the old me was like.

Different recovery spa this time, 2 nights-- I am told it is less "clinical" and more frou-frou. Beverly Hills is so far removed from actual reality. Anyway, since this is less arduous surgery than the last one, they are sending me to the more "fun" recovery place.

I'm feeling physically good. Strong. Very happy to be rid of a big burden, and anxious to finish the job. Yesterday 2 different people who knew the "before" me saw me and I got the "can't believe it" comments, which was nice.

Thanks for the warning on saving messages.

Why not exposure-- I am not sure of the exact reasons, but he was very explicit that it was not time to do that.

I agree on sticking with the Harley's recommendations. If your H is aware of you seeing the e-mails great (I just didn't want him accusing you of sneaking).

Good luck with your surgery, I hope it all goes well for you with the outcomes you are hoping for.

And if you wait for the 2008's to hit the lot they probably will still have 2007 they want to move. Good luck and have fun

Fled

Oh, UGH. OW just sent a really nasty one.

Slammed me, slammed him, in the most hurtful ways possible.

I think I may need to talk to H about the contents of this one, there are some implied threats.
The problem is, she is BEGGING for a response.

Here is what she wrote:



How dare you do this to me..you must be a real coward not to have nerve to say anything to me. You remember that we never had a physical relationship and I am not a bad person who
ruined you as you're making me feel. We had a friendship and a lot in common I thought.
You always said "let me know if you have to go away, so it's easier for me", then you do this to me. You were the one having an affair with [OW #1] and I thank God I never did and
never would. (have an affair). I know that your wife sent that e-mail, I could tell. There's no
need to threaten me, I have told my husband why I left [working for you] and why I cannot go back (you). You forced me out of my job there, wrote some letter telling me to do what I had to do, (go away), when I wasn't doing anything anyway, then had your wife call me. I gave you that beautiful plant and that radio and I want them back. I do not want you enjoying them when you have been so mean to me. I will leave my truck unlocked and park behind the hospital over the weekend and also on next Thursday, you can just put them in the back.
If you don't I will come to the office during office hours and get them. Hopefully your wife
will get enough plastic surgery that you can stand looking at her again and stop using
people and trying to steal other men's wives or better yet, [OW 1].


Somebody give me a lifeline here.

Hi Limbo

Not sure if this is a lifeline but-as a high school teacher of more than 2 decades-I can tell you that is one adolescent tantrum. "... want them back because I don't want you enjoying them when you were so mean to me." What is she-a sophomore who just broke up with her prom date?

If "nothing" happened between them and they are just friends-why is she so p#$$%d? A friend would want to help another friend save their M.

And the plastic surgery comment-vintage middle school mean girl. It's meant to hurt you into responding. That's how the mean girl gets points. If you respond, she gets points. If you cry, she gets points. If you get your husband to respond, (in middle school it would be the parents) she gets points. If you ignore her-she loses points.

I think it's time to block her emails. Have them just bounce back. That's easier than reading her juvenile rantings and immature slams.

Others may have advice on whether to share this with your H. I do think there are some veiled threats in the email so you might want to keep it.

That's all I have to offer. Sorry it isn't more helpful.

I have a suggestion -- try reading a book called "The Gift of Fear." The author is an advisor to celebrities who get stalked. His basic view is that ignoring threats is often a better approach than responding to them because responding to them encourages more contact, which is what the stalker wants. He doesn't believe in no-contact orders because they are a form of response.

This is just my take on the book, but it sounds to me like the OW is going to become a stalker. One reason why SH may want you to hold off on exposure is that, at this point, she still has time to leave gracefully, without a lot of noise.

Cherished

In Limbo,

Ignore her she is trying to force a reaction and a reply. I agree she is being very high schoolish, but that is what many affairs are like. Right now she's in withdrawal and will do and say anything. Based on her message I sense she is in panic mode because she has lost control of the situation, you are now in control.

Her mind is racing a mile a minute wondering what is going to happen to her, who is going to find out, what will people think of her when they do, what if her H finds out, what if I lose my job, etc, etc.

I have been in her shoes although I never said anything nasty about FOM's W, but I did email him messages and eventually I could force a reply. Hold on tight it might get worse.

Did they email a lot to each other? If so, she is addicted to the replies. Even though my FOM and I worked together and were neighbors our A was very much via email (it was safe, so we thought). I became very addicted to the replies. I would email him and could guarantee to get a reply within 10 min. When I ended the A I was sure we could go back to just a plain friendship. We did that for a few months and then he started to ignore me. It drove me nuts, how dare he do that to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

It hurt and it made me angry. I needed the reply. My messages were never threatening nor did I ever say anything nasty about his W, but I knew I could get him to reply at some point. Once I got a reply, I got my fix and was good to go.

I can't tell you how many times I embarassed myself and at the end an exchange he would ask that we stop emailing. I would agree to no more emailing, would be fine for a few days, then I would come up with some (usually ridiculous reason) why I had to send him a message. At first he would ignore me, I would push, finally he would answer. I got my fix and was fine again for a few days. See how that works?

I'm sure my FOM thinks I am a major psycho-freak, but I couldn't stop myself. I needed for him to email me. At my lowest point he was trying very hard to ignore my emails and I was desperate. I was freaking out that my H would find out, but at the same time so full of guilt for not telling him, I couldn't believe I had had an A and I had a mental breakdown. I hit rock bottom. It was through therapy that I finally could stop the cycle.

In my case neither of our spouses knew so no one was there to stop my incessant behavior. I had to hit rock bottom all on my own before I could pick myself up and reclaim my dignity. I hope for your sake she starts to control herself. At least you are there to stop the cycle.

I'm not saying the OW in your case will do what I did, but I wanted to warn you it may not stop for a while if the addiction is strong.

I hope this makes sense, it's the middle of the night in my neck of the woods and for some reason I can't sleep.

LC

Johnstwin is right about the adolescent response, I prefer the B word. I think your best bet is to just ignore her, bounce the e-mails back as refused. Be on guard for her showing up. She is a nasty spiteful little beast and she is digging deep in the barrel to be nasty to you.

Thinking about you, focus on you and your surgery and keep doing what SH suggests and keeping talking w/ your H.

Fled

I agree and vote for the "no response" plan, too. Especially after her first line of "how dare you not respond to me." Seems like she's telling you exactly what will bother her the most.

And the advice to keep the "ILY" e-mails, in case she tried to claim that he forced her out was SOOOO right-on! She's already hinting at that in this latest e-mail. I can't believe it.

I think her whole e-mail is designed to get a response. Full of threats and accusations and things that anyone would feel obligated to defend themselves against. She's certain that this one will work. So I totally agree that the best thing to do is NOT respond.


The big problem with that, though, is with her threatening to show up at his office. You've got to be prepared for that. Maybe your H should be warned about that part, and his office staff can be on the lookout to intercept. They could just be told that she's not allowed anywhere on the property and to call the cops for trespassing if she shows up.


I originally thought that maybe they could have the radio and plant nearby, in a trash can or something (with a few coffee cups and nasty food wrappers thrown in for good measure) and just hand that off to her if she shows up. But that would let her know that the e-mails had been read and had at least a little bit of influence.


I wonder if you could set up your own bounce/filter/forward kind of automatic rule in his e-mail system. I understand that you want to keep tabs on the e-mails and keep reading them. So I wonder if you could set up some e-mail rules that would 1) send her a bounce auto-reply (even if you had to doctor the form to make it LOOK like a bounce, you could easily do that, I bet). Then 2) forward it to you and delete it from your H's in-box. You could still keep monitoring, in case she tries contact from another e-mail address, and you'd still have copies of whatever she wrote. But she would see a "bounce" and be faced with how unimportant she was.


If it were me, I think I might be tempted to leave half a dozen poisinous snakes and bugs and other nasty critters in her unlocked truck ..... but I suppose that would not be nice. Maybe just a handful of bedbugs. And lice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Sorry about the plastic surgery digs, I agree that they are juvenile. That part is definitely worth ignoring if you can, although I imagine it stings.


Can't imagine how frustrating this must be for you. The good news is that it sounds like either she's quite an e-mail actress or the NC is actualy sticking this time (so far).

When's your next apt. with SH? I wonder if you could e-mail or fax him her latest e-mail and just ask for a quick response on how to respond ... not neccessarily a full blown appointment, just a few minutes of his time.

-AmI.

I'm praying for you Limbo. Glad you have so many options and suggestions.

I'll share my OW stories later. She actually self-destructed in my H's eyes by revealing how big of a liar in denial she actually was. He shudders to think of her now. She doesn't know that she actually helped him choose to de-fog. When he handwrote that NC letter, it finally seemed to get through to her....but she tried to stay connected to him via me. At least it appeared that way.

But I can never let my guard down.

Ace