Helping her move will only re-enforce her idea that you're at her beck and call. She wants to move out. She can do the work with the FIL.

Don't make it easy on her. Go hang out with a buddy. Take a stand and make a statement. It's very simple. You don't agree with this and will not actively participate in the demise of your marriage.

Again, this is coming from someone who's been in your shoes and looks back in shame at how gutless I was at the time.

Others here may feel different. That's my two cents.

I agree with PO3 on this one. I wouldn't lift a finger to help. But I would be there to make sure she doesn't take more than she's entitled to.

I will warn you that it is difficult to witness. My ex brought over friends to help but I refused to let them in. She had to do it all by herself. It's called consequences.

As a cautionary tale, my SO's ex husband cleaned out the house while she was at work. Took more than a year to work it out in court.

One other thing: what happens if your WW gets pregnant by some other man while she's on her sabbatical from your marriage? Can you be certain you will not be on the hook for CS?

MIL was emotionally abusive to WW and her SILs when they were young (IMO). WW has described it as being like the movie "Mommie Dearest." MIL abandoned WW because a guy offered MIL a car. Then WW went to live with FIL. I met her in HS after all this happened. WW has described MIL as bipolar and that she has been prescribed drugs in the past. One of the SILs was also prescribed anti-depressants.

I am not a therapist, but I do believe that WW has some deep issues that were caused either by her parents fighting/divorce or MIL (or both). One of my coworkers that has been supporting me through this has some experience with bipolar disorders and based on her description of high highs and low lows, I don't think WW is bipolar. She doesn't have high highs. But I am concerned that she suffers from depression or even just seasonal depression. Coming from a very stable family of origin, I was completely unprepared to recognize these types of things. As far as physical abuse: yikes, I don't even want to go there, but do worry. Isn't it true that some people don't even know that they were abused because their mind buries it in their subconscious? I think she has an SF issue and I started to wonder a few months ago, but I could never raise that issue with any of her family, not even the reason why I would ask.

When I first suggested seeing a therapist, after D-Day, she was adamant about not doing so. 'Oh, so you think I'm crazy, is that it?' She refused on the basis of her bad experience with a therapist as a child. She said MIL made her and SILs go to the therapist so the therapist could determine if it was the kids that 'made her crazy.'

She is very resistant to see doctors of any kind. She hasn't seen a single dentist, doctor, ob/gyn, etc. the entire time I've known her. It's always the same excuse she gives for not seeing a therapist: 'what could they tell me that I don't already know?'

Very troubling, IMO. Unfortunately, you can't "fix" another person or even help them if they won't accept that they need help.

Check

Check

I will definitely not wait years. IC said to give it 2-5 years and I was thinking 'No way am I going to sit around waiting for 5 years.'

That is exactly it.

Nope, she did not understand the pain. Part of that is because I went through a lot of it in the 10 days prior to D-Day (due to my discovery) without her full awareness. When she started to read the books, she learned about it. That's when the walls started to come up about 'But these books are about affairs and I didn't have an affair. My situation is unique.'

Agreed.

I don't think Plan B is about "hanging in there and hoping she wakes up." At least, that's not what I'm planning it will be. After I enter Plan B, I intend to try and not think about her anymore. NC of any kind. Live my life how I would like to live it (while not doing anything that would offend W). Enjoy being by myself, work on improving myself, re-evaluating what I want to do, where I want to be. Reconnect with old friends, gain new ones. Put renewed energies into work and hobbies. Put simply, focus no energy on WW. Then I won't think I'll have wasted that time.

Ideally, my Intermediary will be able to help me deal with this. And I'm sure the first few weeks will not be perfect as I plug all the leaks in the dam. But I will try my best (for myself) to go dark.

I've already been there. That was the first couple of weeks. I know our situations are similar, but I am truly looking forward to beginning Plan B. I am not afraid of her leaving anymore and I am not afraid of D anymore. Those were big steps for me. I'm sure you don't see that because my first postings here were a long while after discovery.

Maybe it will seem ridiculous for me to say this. But I see 30 as old (for me). And 13/30 is almost 50%. So I'm trying to deal with the idea that nearly half of my life was a waste. I know it wasn't, but it's a lot to me to just 'throw away.' It's going to take me some time to 'get over' that. Maybe 18 months...

Well, let's be real. I do have baggage. Even if I got a D tomorrow, I'd be a 30-year-old divorced guy who has some trust issues. And I know I'm not ready to date right now. I will need some time to figure that out. I'm sure I will figure it out, but right now there's no way.

I believe you. But the thing is that I realize now she has been emotionally detaching from me for a year or two (while emotionally attaching herself to coworker). I didn't know those words then, but now I can recognize it for what it was. So there truly is not much to miss anymore. Certainly not the criticisms or rejections. I'm sure that sounds kind of sad, but as I sit here alone in our bed while WW sleeps alone in a separate bedroom, I ask myself 'Um, what am I going to miss, exactly?'

This is probably a terrible post for me to make, because 6 months from now you all can pull quotes from it and say 'You said you wouldn't miss her and now you're saying you do!' but it's the way I feel right now, despite WW's current pleasant, giving attitude.

I do appreciate your thoughts on this, especially since there are a lot of similarities between your WW and mine. So don't feel like I'm disregarding your opinion. I put them all in the pot to stir together so I can come up with a decision of my own.

Why limit himself to 25+ year-olds? College girls are a lot of fun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously thought, your WW has a lot of issues that she needs to deal with. You can't force her to deal with them. Plan B will be critical for her. She can either deal with her problems or continue to run away from them. You have done all that you can for her. If she still chooses to run away from her problems, then she is going to be lost for a long time. It's not your fault she's f'ed up. If it doesn't work out, find someone without so much baggage next time. When you learn about a woman's past and find that she was abused or her parents have several failed marriages, you now know to be huge red flags. Now it may not be their fault, but you don't need a woman to drag you down into her misery.

My FWW is the same way. She has issues with anxiety and depression from her parent's divorce and her mother being somewhat emotionally abusive. My FWW is starting to go to a MC with me, but I am realizing that it is going to be a LONG time until things get better.

BHHF,

Since we are talking years, if you married at 31 you will be married 30 years by the time you are 61, which I can tell you from experience is NOT over the hill. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Yes, you will miss the woman she was, the woman you married and you will NEVER forget her. You would be very foolish to even try. She is part of you, she is part of what you are, and she is part of what you will be. Embrace that. But, let go of the woman she is now. She may change and come back. She may actually grow up and then she might not.

No one can tell you differently. So while it is said recall the good things and use them to make your life better. Recall the bad things and learn from them to make your life better. You have total control over this use it wisely.

As for your W who is to know what the future brings. I think your sense that her leaving is the end of the marrriage, despite what she says. You may be wrong.

By the way plan B has a specific purpose. It is to slow down the leak of love so that it prolongs the chance that your marriage might be rebuilt IF she changes her mind. But, the love bank will drain in plan B and eventually YOU will make decisions that are best for you.

Take your time, relax, and realize that you have learned a few things about your next relationship whether you know it or not.

Learn, grow, and you will find life will treat you well.

God Bless,

JL

I have revised my Plan B Letter a bit based on the feedback you all have given me and having thought more about what I want to say and not say.

Dear WW,

I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OM possible, although I take no responsibility for your choices to make it happen. I foolishly underestimated the signs of your unhappiness and was ignorant of how to best meet your most important emotional needs.

This experience has changed me greatly and I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and help create a new life for us that will meet both our needs. I will do what it takes to make our marriage work, if you will do the same. But I cannot do that until you end all communications with OM permanently.

Until then, I will not see you, talk to you or communicate with you in any form. Any required communications, such as those regarding financial arrangements or the marital property, should be given to INTERMEDIARY (whose contact information is included). INTERMEDIARY will pass any relevant information on to me and provide you with a response, if necessary.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know that I have endured great suffering since discovering your relationship with OM, and I can no longer bear to see or speak to you while knowing you are still contacting him. I still love you, do not want a divorce, and will be able to forgive you. But I simply cannot speak with you under the current circumstances.

When you are willing to permanently end all contact with OM, make efforts to prevent further infidelity and express remorse for your actions, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new life in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend. But I only want that as husband and wife; nothing else.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you refuse to stop contacting OM.

Love,
BHHFSGuy


My intention is to mail this letter to WW after she moves out later this month (sometime between Oct. 18-21). The only problem is that her new place does not have mail delivery. She will need to get a P.O. Box and I think you have to show proof of residency to get that. So there may be some time that passes before she can receive mail. Maybe I will send it to her workplace, where she starts on the 22nd.

"When you are willing to permanently end all contact with OM, make efforts to prevent further infidelity and express remorse for your actions, I will be willing to discuss our future together."

Others may disagree, but I think you are asking too much of her by what you say here. First of all, she has told you that her relationship with OM is not an affair. She hasn't been unfaithful. I have come to believe that this is part of the WS fog. Somehow, it's not an affair because an affair is always wrong and this relationship just isn't that way. It feels right. In the book, "Not Just Friends", the author says that people come to realize long afterwards that the relationship was a "garden-variety affair." At the time, as part of the fog, it seems special. It is so special that it is exempt from the ugliness of affair -- betrayal -- infidelity. Why try to get her to agree that she was unfaithful?

Second, you are asking her to show remorse. Why? She seems a long way from being remorseful as she takes another job and moves.

My recommendation would be that you say that her contact with OM is so painful TO YOU that you cannot be in contact with her while she is in contact with him. There is no judgement in that statement. This is about you. Make no contact with OM to be the one condition for reconciliation and then go on to tell her that you will do what you can to make your life together positive for both.

Tell her you care about her and want her to be happy. I remember Harley on the radio show advising a man to help his wife move. That's part of saying you want her to be happy. The idea is that you want her to be happy and so, if she cannot be happy with you, then you want her to move.

Cherishing

Post deleted by papaof3v2dot0

Post deleted by BHHFSGuy

BHHFSGuy,

I think you are dealing with a threshhold problem. Your behavior, over time, accumulated so that your wife has completely and totally given up on you, taking an out of town job and is moving.

I can tell you that I used to just love shopping at Target. I'd buy everything there. When I did try to find a deal on something, I'd often end up buying from Target anyway. Over the last couple of years, I've gotten more and more disgusted with Target -- children boots that leak before winter is over, jackets that look terrible at the end of a season and cannot be handed down, jeans that tear within two weeks, a cow hair embedded in butter, the extreme reluctance of the check out clerks to put food into paper bags instead of plastic bags... I got to the point where I expected problems. Last week, I cancelled my Target card. I hit a threshhold where the experience of shopping at Target had become so unpleasant that I just didn't want to go there anymore. I had to find other places to shop -- for food, for clothes, for household supplies. I've ended up finding different stores for food and for clothes and for household supplies. Now, maybe every once in a while, I'll go back to Target. Buying their brand of food is out of the question because not only was there a nonhuman hair embedded in the butter but one of the eggs had blood in it. I'll buy packaged and canned food with national brands only.

I hit a threshhold with Target. I also hit a threshhold with Ford. We have a Toyota now. That's a long story, too.

I think your wife hit a thresshold with you. I don't think she plans to come back. That's why your treatment of her over the next few days is so critical. That's all the time you have. The Plan B letter isn't so important as how you treat her. Let her know that you are sorry that she wasn't happy with you, that you care about her, that you want her to be happy, -- and help her move. She wants the door open, or at least to give the appearance of the door being open. Help her move.

I think also that she has created a monster in her own mind. My guess is that you weren't controlling so much as you were neglectful. You just had other priorities in your life than spending time with your wife. She couldn't justify leaving you because of neglect so she decided you were controlling. That's why also I think it is very important that you not tell her she has to admit to having an affair and that you not expect remorse.

My husband had an affair. He broke my arm. He's sworn at me hundreds and hundreds of times. The most hurtful thing he has said to me is "Leave me alone." When I asked him if he had an affair to hurt me, he said, "You weren't relevant enough to my thoughts" for me to think about how you felt. How do you think I felt when he told me that he hadn't thought about how I would react to an affair? This from a guy who broke my arm to prevent me from calling this woman. I was upset, yes, and he didn't care. He just didn't care.

I think that your wife gave up on you because she thought you didn't care, but she's still there for just a few days. Take the time to let her know that you do want her to be happy and that this was a big wake up call for you. Tell her you care about her. Then let her go. With a Plan B letter in place, it is up to her to come back to you.

I'll also add that my sister in law (married to my husband's brother) and I have gotten close enough to talk about our marriages. Despite what my husband has done, I'm not through. She is. She's preparing herself for divorce. She's just trying to keep herself sane and prepare for financial independence until the children are older. He hasn't treated her as badly as my husband has treated me, at least in that he never was physically abusive and didn't have an affair. I understand why she's done, however. Neglect is arguably worse than either infidelity or abuse. Infidelity often follows neglect because the unfaithful spouse first has decided to enjoy life away from the spouse, and infidelity often follows when another person of the opposite sex who has made that same decision crosses paths with the spouse who has given up on the marriage. Neglect, though, is so degrading that I cannot describe it. I felt as though I didn't exist. I didn't matter.

The long and short of it is this: I think you neglected her, and what you want to convey to her is that, if she gives you another chance, she will ALWAYS be your number one priority. Leave her with that thought, even in your Plan B letter. If life turns out not to be greener in LOST WAGES, CA, make it very easy for her to come back to you.

Cherishing

Cherish,

Sorry to disagree with you, but you don't understand the personality type. If there's similarities to my sitch, there's little he could have done to keep her happy. She sounded like an unhappy person from the start. She probably felt he needed to make her happy and was disappointed when he fell short. I've been in the same boat. I couldn't have been a more attentive husband. The things I did, however, were seen as obligatory by her. I missed work several times to take care of her. I let her buy anything she wanted. I let her sleep on the weekends while I took care of the kids. I let her go to clubs when we were married despite my objection to it (I joined her after a little while).

I gave and gave, yet somehow it wasn't enough. Sure, I wasn't perfect and I had my moments, but I gave everything to her. Literally. In the end, at time of D, I gave her everything. All our possessions, time with the kids, and I followed her wishes thinking it would make things amicable and help me save my family after her "time apart to heal".

There was never any genuine intent to try to restore our family.

His WW has a very similar personality, based on what he's posted here. I've been able to guess correctly on several WW's backrounds in terms of abuse and I'm pretty confident about his WW. I'm not surprised by him stating she claims to have a Mommy Dearest type mother. I wouldn't be surprised if one of her mother's boyfriends abused her growing up. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Certain things are confusing if you are with someone who isn't very personally strong. Why do they panic when alone or lost? Why the constant trips to the doctor that can't find anything wrong, yet they never question why they can't ever find anything wrong? Why are they so untrustworthy of new acquaintances and friends?

All these things confused me for years and were a real mystery. I figured a lot of it had to do with never being on her own and going straight from home to married life. I couldn't have been more wrong.

I could have been the greatest guy in the history of the world and she would have still been unhappy to the point that she felt things weren't salvageable and she had to end the marriage.

Was I perfect? No. Were there things I needed to improve? Absolutely. Were they bad enough that she had to end the marriage? No way. Everything she ever mentioned to me was workable.

BHHHFSGUY sounds exactly the same. Unless he's not revealing something, but he's probably a normal man in a normal marriage, but normal is not good enough for someone with a personality disorder or unresolved traumas from their past.

That's my 2 cents.

What's nice about this forum is that people bring different perspectives to the problems raised by people. You may be right that his marriage is unsalvageable because his wife has a personality disorder or unresolved traumas from the past. I think that, with days until his wife moves out, it would be better for him to set those ideas aside and assume (even if the assumption is wrong) that he was at some point neglectful and to leave her with the impression that he will be attentive to her if she gives him another chance.

Cherishing

I will have much more to write later (Guess who came back to the marital bed last night?), but I just wanted to let everyone know that I am still in Plan A and will be in Plan A until after she moves out. Just because I posted my revised Plan B letter for review, and I've been making other arrangements for Plan B, it doesn't mean I have begun Plan B. I will continue to try and meet her ENs until she's gone. Once she's left, NC.

It's easier to try and meet her ENs now than it was 2 months ago, because WW's attitude has taken a 180 in the last few weeks and she is both eager to spend time with me and active in finding things to do. But it's also harder in the sense that most of what she has to converse about are details of her moving out, which are painful for me. I am emotionally guarding myself right now and not allowing her changed attitude to give me some kind of false hope that she's changed her mind about everything.

Hug her. Kiss her. Hold her. Touch her. Physical touch that doesn't lead to sex means more to me than sex. Sex is about physical pleasure. Touch is about emotional connection.

Use the word care. I care about you. I want you to be happy.

And if she gives you another chance make use of it to show a lot of attention ALWAYS. The OM sounds like a stopgap attempt to feel better because she felt so neglected by the man she chose to marry.

If she moves, she may quickly decide to move back. For some reason, and I suspect it was neglect, she didn't think you would be the person she could go to for care. Be that person now.

Cherishing

Although WW has repeatedly said that her relationship with OM was not an 'affair,' she hasn't said she wasn't unfaithful. So I don't know where you got that. In her e-mails to BFF prior to my discovery, she has specifically referred to the one physical incident as cheating on me. She has admitted it and it is undeniable by all (except OMGF).

It's only after she started reading the books I had bought that she began saying she didn't have an 'affair.' See, the books always note that the OP must be completely cut out forever, and WW has insisted from D-Day that she and OM 'will still be friends.' So how does she get around that roadblock? Well, the books use the word 'affair' and she didn't really have an affair, therefore the advice is inapplicable. She is uninterested in what any book has to say about the subject unless the relationship it describes EXACTLY mirrors the situation of her and her male CW.

First, WW are in agreement that she was unfaithful. She knows that what she did with OM that night was not acceptable for a married woman to do. Second, I am not asking her to admit that she had an 'affair.' As as been mentioned, it doesn't matter if we both call it a 'bologna sandwich.' The important thing to me is that she follows the steps to recovery from an affair, which Dr. Harley notes is a very narrow path. If she wants to call it a 'mistake' and follow the steps to recovery whole-heartedly, I will have no problem with that. But if she wants to call it a 'mistake' and NOT follow any steps to recovery, then I will have a problem with that.

So I think that asking her to take steps to prevent further infidelity is not asking too much. I don't want 'bologna sandwich' to happen again, ever. It's too painful and until she can agree to that (which she hasn't because she still wants to be "friends" with OM) I simply can't bear to be with her anymore.

Yes, she seems to be a long way from being remorseful. Um, that's why I'm going to Plan B instead of following her. Do you think I expect her to show remorse suddenly? I don't. I expect she will have to come out of the fog before she can express remorse. I will try and wait for that to happen and not go to D. But I will need to at least hear 'I'm sorry I cheated on you' or some apology for her actions. I haven't heard or read that once. I've heard 'I regret getting married so young' and read 'Why did I choose to tell BHHFSGuy?' and 'If only I would've been smarter and not gotten caught,' and the wonderful 'I wish I would've gone all the way with OM so I'd at least have that to remember.'

I have read a few threads on this site where that is the case and the BS regrets it later because the WS simply makes that one promise, returns to the BS and essentially does nothing else (and usually ends up breaking NC too). When the BS comes back here for advice, they're told 'you should've put more conditions on coming back'


Sorry, but no, this is exactly how I've already messed things up quite a bit. On D-Day, I agreed to a number of things I shouldn't have in the hopes that it would make her happy. Those included that she could continue to 'be friends' with the OM. Because surely if WW could see how pleasing and giving I was, she would return the favor...

Do I want WW to be happy? Yes. Do I want her to be happy at the expense of my own feelings? Not anymore. If I send the message that I'll do ANYTHING to make WW happy, then that's what she'll expect. Plus, if I help her move, she'll be even more confused by my NC w/her during Plan B: 'Why did you help me move out, if you were just planning to be mean and not return my calls?' Plus, it undermines my position that I do not agree with the separation. I know WW would like to tell everyone that we both agreed the separation was for the best and if I help her move out, I will only be bolstering that lie.

The reason why not to have her admit to an affair is that you are passing judgment on her by labeling the relationship something that she thinks it is not. Yes, you want her to end contact with OM. What you need to emphasize is that your feelings matter. You want her to care about you, and it hurts you terribly that she has contact with this man.

I have said many times that I want my husband to be happy but not at my expense. I made the mistake of trying to support all sorts of outside activities, and it was just natural for him to move towards enjoying lunches with a fellow co-worker. He had so conditioned himself to disregard my feelings that he simply didn't care that I was hurt by this.

The reason why I don't think you should put other conditions on the relationship is that my impression (which may be wrong) is that you are very much the man of the house, and she follows you. You would take initiative to spend time with her. What you want is a lot of enjoyable time spent together. She seems to me like someone who is so broken down that she could be on the edge of a nervous breakdown. If you push her, she could break. What you need from her is the very minimum -- a willingness to consider your feelings so that that is the only reason why she would end contact with OM because it doesn't really matter if the relationship is appropriate or not; and a willingness to spend time together as a couple enjoying each other's company. Over time, she can regain strength to face and admit to the lie and the weakness in her character that led to it. Right now, what she needs is your desire for her to be happy. She needs to see that, despite what she has done, you won't punish her but instead you will work with her to build a future that is wonderful for both. She seems to have lost hope. Give her that hope.

Cherishing

PS. I guess what strikes me is that she has taken a job and moved and yet she is so wishy-washy in not telling you she's done and now in going back into the marital bed. She is confused. How do you expect her to commit to any conditions? She needs gentle encouragement, not demands that she do this or that.

I will state again that I am not asking her to admit to an 'affair.' Where in my Plan B letter do you see that I'm asking her to admit that? Here are the three conditions I have listed: "permanently end all contact with OM, make efforts to prevent further infidelity and express remorse for your actions." Where does it say I want/need her to admit she had an affair?

And I think this paragraph of the PBL does that: "You must know that I have endured great suffering since discovering your relationship with OM, and I can no longer bear to see or speak to you while knowing you are still contacting him."


Your impression is completely wrong. I don't know where you get that impression, but it is 100 percent opposite. WW 'wears the pants' of the house, so to speak.

Been doing that for months. Still doing that. Will continue to do that until she moves out.

I have had the second willingness from her for months but have never had the first. When she moves out, I will have neither. That's why I'll be going to Plan B.


Yes, and Plan B will give her that time. During which I will not allow her to contact me and continue to hurt me with her painful words and actions.

I disagree. Right now what she wants is to BE happy. She knows I desire her to be happy. She knows I make efforts for her to be happy. Yet she is unhappy. So she is now seeking what she calls an easy solution: getting a new job, moving to a new city, leaving her H behind.


I'm confused if you think I'm not doing that and this is an admonition, or if you're just trying to remind me of what Plan A is about. I assure you that my not punishing her is exactly what I've been doing during the last 3 months. Yes, you're right that she needs to see that. That's up to her to see.


First, I don't know why you wrote that she has moved, because she hasn't moved yet. But she has specifically told me we're not done. She just wants to go be by herself and live as a single person and experience a life she didn't get to. It's called a mid-life crisis.

What demands? Do you see my request for NC as a demand? It's a request. I'm requesting that WW end all contact with OM. I've requested it for months and she has refused on every occasion to honor that request. Thus I have no choice but to enter Plan B and have no contact with WW. That was Dr. Harley's advice.

I'm very confused by your messages because they seem to run counter to the MB method. Would you have me simply give "gentle encouragement" for the rest of my life while she runs off to have fun? Is that a method of recovering a marriage that has proven results?

You seem to be saying that I should accommodate my wife's belief that she didn't have an A. Should I also accommodate her belief (and FIL's) that OM has nothing to do with her moving away? If so, I shouldn't even ask for NC, because then I'm being judgmental, unreasonable and demanding... Remember, he's just a good friend from work who she wants to continue being friends with... Should I accommodate her every belief? Being weak and appeasing is part of what got me into this situation. She has no respect for me. Bowing down and accommodating her every demand will not gain it back.

It's been a busy day for me, so this will be a quick reply with a more thoughtful one later. I equate infidelity with affair. I am recommending that you request NC with OM ENTIRELY because of how you feel and that there be no discussion about whether it was an affair or infidelity or a bologna sandwich.


Cherishing

This may take some time to compose because it almost makes my skin crawl to reply to you. Your situation brings up some very bad memories of mine, and so it is important for me to separate my memories of being told things like "The only thing we agree on is that you get to do what you want" (that's something my husband said last week) and what I see in what you write. In order to do that, I'll try to stick closely to the actual words you use. I'll come back and revise this later.

First of all, your language is laced with what I would consider disrespectful. I've been on the receiving end of this sort of talk for all of my marriage, which is why I am so sensitive to seeing it in print. Here are some examples:


WW wears the pants of the family, so to speak.
That's up to her to see.
It's called a mid-life crises.
...while she runs off to have fun.
Being weak and appeasing is what got me into this situation.
Bowing down and accomodating her every demand...

These words are just from your last post. What you are doing, and again I see this in my husband so I am trying very hard not to attribute traits to you that I've seen in him, is you don't describe what is going on. Instead, you give your interpretation. For example, what exactly have you done to be weak and appeasing. What exactly has she done to show that she wears the pants in the family?

I cannot tell you just how degrading it is to be on the receiving end of judgements, time after time after time.

Cherishing

Cherishing,

I think this is BGuy's place to vent. Living with an unrepentant WW is a very frustrating and humiliating ordeal. From what he has told me, he doesn't act this way towards her, instead he is in full plan A mode. I too can sense a lot of anger and frustration in his posts. Let him vent here. He's been through he11. I know what it's like firsthand.