AS long as there is contact, your wife isn't going to be too interested in the marriage. If you have done everything you can to expose the affair and done a good Plan A, I would start thinking about Plan B.

An interesting development has just happened. Wife told me that she is looking to get a new job, (where she worked when we first met) for more money and security. this would completely take her away from the OM, geographically and career wise as well (currently she could use the past association with the school and class as a reason to meet up) Working at a new job like this would completely take her away from him, in distance and time.

When I think about that, it says to me that the affair is definitely over.....what do you think?

I know (as i've said before!) that I can't read significance into anything, but I still keep seeing and hearing things come out of her that hint she's not ready to completely leave.....our conversations would sound like there's never been a bad moment in our life together, the other day we bumped into each other at a department store, and had a great half hour together with our daughter. When it was time for me to leave(with Stephanie), i saw that she was watching as we walked away...about 100ft or more.

There's more things like that, but you get the picture. But then on the other hand, theres the concrete things she has said, like how frustrated she was, can't think about coming back, find another girl, that sort of thing. Is that babble, or is she serious?

Even though she has said what she has said, I'm still blindly hoping/wishing for reconciliation and recovery! Am I ridiculously in denial here, or what?

Based on the good relationship we have, and the fact that she's looking to change careers tell you that I should re-double Plan A, or should I still think about moving to B?

Whatever anyone can suggest, I'm grateful for,

Ron

Ron,

I would continue Plan A for another month or so. If there is NC then it will take her time to come around and you need to be trying to meet the emotional needs like conversation that she will allow. Moving to Plan B is for when you can't deal with the situation anymore and you want to protect what love you have left in case their is recovery.

But I know how you feel, you get sick of being the only one who seems to care and feel a bit useless especially when she says find another girl etc. But hang in there don't be needy and who knows.....

Goodluck

Hold tight in Plan A for a bit if you can. Her changing jobs would be a good thing. It doesn't mean the A is over, but its a good sign. Don't read more into it that what you know, but be hopeful.

You aren't being ridiculous. You love your wife, you want a chance to reconcile and repair your marriage and family without a 3rd person involved. That is entirely reasonable, admirable in my opinion (definitely biased, take it for what its worth!).

Thanks guys!

Well, I guess it’s going to be back to a determined Plan A!....I know you all know, but is this ever tough…..I keep going from hope to frustration about a hundred times a day… from feeling like it’s going to be fine to thinking “you’re a complete idiot! She doesn’t want me, and never will anymore!”

I look for strength, and find it in my daughter…..it’s something when a 5 year old can support a 44 year old man!

As far as my Plan A is concerned, can I get some ideas as to how often I should try to make contact? And what sort of tone should I take? I don’t want to be pushy, seem needy, but I do want to give her the chance to see me in all my glory. I’m feeling like I am starting this all over again….which I guess in some ways is a good thing….better to be happy in a Plan A than B I guess.

So, back into the trenches,

Ron

Ron

Read the thread success stories for newbies. I just bumped it for you. Check out mywifeilove's story there are 3 parts. Truly inspirational.

Ron,

Good luck with Plan A. I won't give you advice as there are far more experienced and better qualified people on here. I just wanted to let you know that there is some hope. If she REALLY is in NC!!!. Then in a few weeks you should start to see her change and her perception of what she wants will probably start to change too.
My WW really convinced me she did not want to be married to me anymore but we are now at about 4 months of NC and over the last couple of months she has wanted our marriage more and more. She may not yet be back in love with me the way I would like yet, but she has told me on 2 or 3 occassions recently that she really wants to make a go of things and has been making plans for Christmas.
NC really is the key and you need to do all you can to verify the A is over.

Ron,

Would you consider phone counsel with the Harley's, help map out your strategy?

Please do not read too much into anything your W does. It can be so confusing, and misleading.

I.E. my FWW would spend hours with me on weekends looking at new homes. This sent a message to me "she is obviously looking at "OUR" future together". She then told her cousellor, she only did it because the thought I enjoyed it?? She had no intention on buying a new home.

It made NO sense at all.

JKT:

Oh I know..there's no sense in them...I was talking to the babysitter today, ending up comparing daughter to mother....read that STUBBORN! The sitter told me my wife has been complaining about how much she hates her apartment, how lonely she is, especially when Stephanie is with me, and she complained about how hard it is to be single......Sitter asked: is it really worth it? Wife said: sometimes im not so sure.....

But then, since then, she's told me to find someone else, has warmly hugged me and held my hand, has said she's hoping to move from her apartment now into something bigger......Makes me want to scream!

Sitter said she would start throwing in a few innocent jabs from time to time.....ie.... I could never leave my kids....that sort of thing.....

Thanks everyone...
Ron

I would definitely consider counsel from the Harley's....have to check the bank account first! Things are not desperate, but getting a little snug...

Yes, counseling with the Harley's is an EXCELLENT investment. I would wait a couple of weeks so you can see where this is going. But it would be great to do the counseling to get a recovery plan.

It made me smile to read about Braeworth ….it’s great to see that there’s hope for those of us still in the wilderness!

As far as my situation goes, I have had a few interesting conversations with my wife. She came over the other day to pick up some winter clothes, and we sat down for a while to talk. She was going over the issues that caused her to stray (my kids, who gave her as hard a time as teenagers can give), the LB’s that I made, and her general lack of attraction for me. I countered with the fact that I have learned lots about myself, and that the issues she was so upset with in me, are changed, and in that aspect, I am a new man. I told her the boys (who are 15, 15 and 13) have also learned a lot, and are almost as sad and upset as I am to see her away. As for the lack of attraction, I said that if we can get the emotional problems solved, the physical shouldn’t be far behind.

I told her I didn’t expect her to jump back in my arms right away, I only wanted her to keep her mind and her heart open to me. She told me that she hadn’t shut the door on me. But she doesn’t know what or where she wants to be, or where she wants to go. I think that she is actually in worse shape than me right now, she looked really sad and unhappy a few times. It seems like she’s in withdrawl.

All in all, we had a good time. Daughter was playing in the snow with 13 year old son while we were talking, and then we went and fed some apples to the horses behind our house. Had quite a few laughs while she was there; I think that things are more optimistic now than they have been for a while.

I had a talk with my boys, and begged them to be friendly, or at least polite if they speak to her. It’s not that they were rude or hateful before, they’re just teenaged boys, doing what they do best……it’s nothing deliberate on their part, but I had to make them realize that our house has to be warm and welcoming for her to want to come back at all..

The house is still for sale, we were just on the phone talking about price. Some may say stay in it, but I don’t really want to. If we split, there’s too many memories, if we stay together, a new house would represent a new beginning. Heck…..I’d sell it for a dollar if we could start off new together.

Encouragement, advice, comments or bricks are welcome!

Ron

Thats good news Ron. Could be that her A really is over and she's starting to come out of the fog a little bit. Keep up the good work and don't pressure her.

Take care

I forgot to mention, I suggested we all go for counselling, not necessarily to repair our marriage, but to work on the issues that affect our whole family. She was open to it briefly, but it didn't have enough momentum, and the idea died.....However, she did think about it....

Maybe I'm stupid and crazy....I can't really talk about things to my friends or family, they're worn out I'm sure. I think they're sick of me trying to keep this alive. I suspect that they would just like me to tell her piss off.

Taking the high road is really lonely

Sounds like you're getting some positive results Ron. Just keep her talking, keep it light and friendly like you have been. I'd try to push the counseling idea a bit if she's interested, its another opportunity for contact with her, although that could blow up in your face if the counseling seesions aren't productive. Double edged sword there I guess, but I think its better to go than not. Try to find a good pro-marriage counselor, obviously.

Glad to see its looking up at least a little bit. Make sure you're takin care of yourself. Do something YOU like to do. For me, I threw myself into golf, improved my handicap by 8 strokes while my wife was having her A. Absolutely sick, but its kinda upsetting that I know I won't be able to play as much next year!

Anyhow, I'm readin, your thread aint dying, hopefully the same will be said of your marriage!

Thanks everyone, for your advice....

I have a question....Right now, my wife isn't calling me, unless there is something specific she needs to talk about. Any "social" contact is strictly initiated by me. Having said that, whenever we do talk, it is friendly, and goes beyond whatever the initial purpose of the call was.

Can anyone guide me on how much, how often, I should call her, or try to initiate something. I don't want to appear pushy, definitely not needy, but given that I'm working on Plan A when she's not in the house, I'm not too sure how to go about things.

Every couple of days, once a week, once a month.....what should it be? I'd love to call her every day like I used to, but that's probably worth a 2x4.

Ron

If you call and leave a message, does she call back?

If the conversations are going well, I would call her as often as she seems comfortable with, once a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me, you are married to her after all. You don't want to seem needy or obsessive so watch her reactions and modify accordingly. I'd make sure you always have something to talk about, make a list or something if you have problems thinking of things to say. Invite her to do interesting things, and inconsequential things too, but don't press or expect her to accept, just keep inviting, make it as an afterthought sometimes "I was just heading out to get a coffee, you got 30 minutes?" That type of thing. Try not to let things get uncomfortable, avoid those uncomfortable phone pauses and err on the side of caution and end the calls sooner than you'd prefer, as if you're in a rush. "I'm really enjoying talking to you but I promised so-and-so that I'd do whatever for him and I gotta get on it, I'll call ya back in a while if that's cool." If she says yes, then don't call back, let her wonder, when you call her the next day, "Sorry I never got back to you, it got late and I was worn out, busy day, blah blah".

Be interested in her, and have interesting things to say about YOU. Be BUSY, and let her feel that while you want to talk to her, you really got stuff goin on!

Just kinda brain stormin with ya Ron, I think with Plan A you need to have as much contact as she'll tolerate, and the more she will and the better you are at keepin it light and interesting the more of it she'll tolerate and eventually she'll take you up on a casual invitation to do something. I hope so anyhow, if someone else comes along and tell you I'm full of beans, you should probably give thier opinion at least equal consideration though!

Whenever I call, she calls back. Now having said that, I usually do call with a specific purpose in mind, and then the conversation is steered towards other topics.

I guess that any ideas of having her do the questionnaires, or things like that should be put on the back burner for now?

There's no real point in it as far as impacting actual recovery, you'll just get a lot of fogged out babble if she'll do it (My WW filled one out). However, I'd say that the survey is useful in getting her to think about things and think about the idea of you being willing to work to repair the M and what that would take. I think that as she fills it out she will realize that the issues keeping you apart are not as significant as she has convinced herself they are, and thoughts must necessarily turn to "what is the problem?" "oh, maybe its that I've moved out and am fooling around?". One can hope anyhow huh? It might make her really sit down and spend some time thinking "what IS wrong here?" Maybe you could get her to do it by saying something like "I know you aren't ready to commit to us, but I am trying to change and grow as an individual. If you would fill this out it would help me identify areas I need to focus on." Something like that would do several things, it would plant the seed in her head that this status quo is not forever and that you plan to have a life beyond her, show her that you truly are trying to change, and give her a platform to voice her issues.

Thks Tyk...

I will do that. I like the idea of putting something into her side of "effort"... I was talking to her on email today while we were at work.......It was fine, as always...but i would give up my right arm for her to call me, just to ask how things are going! It fees like all the effort is mine alone riht now~