Having had been married to a professional musician for 16+ years, I can tell you that most, not all, are musicians for more then their love of music. The majority of them also have "Admiration" as their #1 emotional need, some in the excess. This EN ties right into their choice of career.

I don't know if your husband is one that feels entitlement to inappropriate admiration outside of your marriage, I hope not because its a up-hill battle I have seen many wage here and in real life.

What do you perceive as his 5 most important emotional needs?

Jo

I'm not sure what his EN's are but admiration is probably at the top of the list and sex somewhere near the bottom. He loves it when he is complimented and worshipped for his musical abilities. I would say that recreational activities are also very important to him (music again). But....no matter how hard I try, he refuses to let me be involved in the things he loves and refuses to enjoy anything we try to do together. Now he says he doesn't even like to do the things that we did together when we were first dating and bonded. For example, camping.
I'm going to have to review the EN's again because I can't even think of anything else he wants or enjoys. Maybe conversation, but again, not with me.

It occurred to me that maybe the reason I'm having such a hard time wrapping my mind around this A thing is that since it may not be physical, I don't think people will believe me or take the problem seriously. Well already that has been proven. How do you convince someone they are having an affair if they think they aren't?

After reading this entire thread again, I can guarantee you he is having an affair. Regardless if its physical or emotional, its a threat to your marriage. And just so you know, Harley tells us an emotional affair can be even more damaging.

You need to buy the book "Surviving an Affair" and read it. Implementing Plan A is your first step.

From what I read, seems your husband wants to have cake and eat it too. IOWs, he doesn't want to leave but doesn't want to give up the OW. So I think you should implement a short but near-perfect Plan A and then right into Plan B.

Jo

Expose to OW's H. Whether he is having an A or not, he needs to know his W is.

I suspect OW's H isn't having an A. That was a cover to catch your H's sympathy. Stupid WS'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

lol, anything is possible. At the very least she's desperately lonely.

ok, so after reviewing the emotional needs again I think they go something like this:
Admiration
Recreational Activities
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support

This is based off of comments he has made to me in the recent past. He says I criticize too much. (usually because I ask him to meet some of my needs). Obviously he enjoys the company of people doing stuff he likes to do. Recently he said maybe he was feeling like he is because I don't have the pretty tummy that I had when we met - maybe I would consider a tummy tuck. He always fusses over money and not having everything he wants all the time. I contribute and he loves to spend the money I make but it also makes him feel like less of a man for not making enough in the first place. When the house is a mess he gets really stressed out.

So...off to do the dishes and some situps and I'll try my hardest to think of something to compliment him on.

Ok, I ordered the book. Does it have a better description of plan a, plan b? I'm still having a hard time grasping it. I kept myself under control even though it was band practice night and he didn't come home till 2am. I even thought of some good things to say to him this morning. I told him that I appreciated and respected the fact that he went to work every day for us. I told him I know its hard and he doesn't like it and I am aware of what a sacrifice that is. I told him I was sorry for not saying it enough but I really meant it. Then I said "you're a good man". He kinda shrugged and said thanks but after really thinking about his EN's last night I'm hoping those kinds of statements help build him up and inspire him to be the man he's supposed to be.

He's sending me so many mixed messages. My brain kept me up last night and I was wandering around the house in my nighty when he got home. The first thing he did was give me a big hug.

Yesterday he went shopping and bought a nice button up shirt I had been eyeballing for months (went on sale). He said he bought it because I liked it and he wanted to be sexy for me at the show next weekend? I giggled and said "you're always sexy to me".

He talks about moving into a bigger house and things we'll be doing in two years. But when I confront him specifically - he says he doesn't want me. Agggh!!! It's enough to drive a girl insane.

I even got some this morning. He went a whole month completely neglecting me sexually and since I've been home after "giving him some space" for a week, I've been getting it every other day. I don't think its very emotional for him, but I'll take whatever I can get. Sex is definitely on the top of my list and nothing makes me psycho like not getting it. So at the very least it helps me stay sane and shows that perhaps he is trying to meet my needs. I've been trying to make it easy on him by doing all the work. Alas, nothing makes sense. But I do like this little world of denial and non-confrontation much better than the one where he ripped my heart out every day.

I've been thinking about boundaries. After my last upset about the text messaging, he hasn't done it even one time in my presence but that doesn't mean he's stopped completely.

I know that if I insist he quit playing music I will lose him. How will that be beneficial to me?

Can I insist that he stop the non-business related talk as a condition of staying in our home? Can I ask her again too? Is that enough of a boundary or do I need to insist that they never speak again?

If he won't do it, then what? Can I still do plan A or do I have to leave? I've asked him to leave several times and he won't do it.

He asked me to contact her because he left his phone at practice last night. I started typing this message and deleted it. I'll save it here in case I decide to send it later. I didn't really want to until I found out from you guys if its even worth doing anyway.

Speaking of text messaging....
I have to admit that I am still having some issues with the frequency and content of your contact with my husband. I understand that you guys are friends and you have to communicate because you are in the same band. I want to be ok with it, but the truth is I'm not. It's a huge stumbling block for me right now. With the stuff that has gone on recently, I hope you can understand where I'm coming from about this. I've thought long and hard about it. I've researched every spare moment of my time just trying to find answers.

What it boils down to is my husband is exhibiting the exact same behavior that every cheating man has exhibited since the beginning of time. It's like the words he says are coming out of a cheater's handbook or something. No kidding. It's unreal, but a little comforting to know he's not the only one who's ever acted like this. While I do not know where he would have the time to have a physical affair, it is very apparent to me that he is having an emotional one. Our situation dictates that it be handled like a physical affair. Doing so is the only glimmer of hope that I see.

Even if neither of you are considering ever doing anything, you are both coming to eachother to meet certain emotional needs. Responding to your messages about how you are bored, have a headache, think he's mad at you or whatever - I've only intercepted a few, is stealing the emotional support I rightfully deserve as his wife. Do you understand what I am saying? I'm not blaming you for anything but I feel so very threatened. The fact that it makes me insecure and hurts my feelings alone should be enough to stop, but he refuses. He refuses to distinguish the boundaries between a wife and a friend.

In addition to that, he was a little tipsy the other night and admitted that he finds qualities that you have and I don't to be appealing. You have a nice body, he admits that he appreciates that, while mine is wrecked from bearing his children. (He recently said maybe the reason he isn't attracted to me is my belly and asked if I'd consider a tummy tuck. In that light, perhaps you can appreciate how devestating that comment was to me). He also said that he enjoys spending time with you because of your similar interests. I can't be in a band with him, and he refuses to enjoy any other sort of recreational activity with me. So the fact that the two of you are growing close in your recreational setting means that you again are meeting an emotional need that I can not, or at least he won't allow. He also told me that you have talked to him about your own marital problems. Again, another big red flag.

All I'm asking of you is what I already asked. To just back off a little and be sensitive to the situation. I don't really feel like that request has been honored. You claimed that the band is like your family because you've known them for so long. You haven't known chad for so long. He wasn't even loyal to your group until he started having these issues - which are fresh and coincide with the two of you getting close. Chad needs to focus on me and his kids. We can not afford for him to be distracted by another woman's emotional needs.

In my mind you have become "the other woman". I want to like you, I'd like to even be your friend but some boundaries must be set and respected. If not, the consequences will be dire for all involved. I am prepared to go to whatever lengths I have to, to regain the love of my husband. Nothing is more important than our marriage. I hope you understand my resolve.

Chad and I have a lot of work to do and we can't even start until he is willing to focus on the problem. I know this fact is not your fault. It is chad's responsibility, but I'm reaching out to you because you have the power to stop this nonsense when he apparently does not.

Thank you for your understanding. It has never been my intent to create an uncomfortable situation. I hope you see that I have no alternatives if I wish to save this marriage. It is my hope that we can resolve this problem to everyone's benefit and that I can be included in these activities. I've always been included and helpful in his band stuff. This is the first time he's shut me out - another great cause for concern.

As far as the suicide thing goes, it does not appear to be as much of a problem. He went to the doctor and they adjusted his medication. He is not acting as depressed right now. At least as far as I can tell. If anyone is at risk right now it is me because of my rollercoaster emotional state. I've had some really appalling thoughts lately that I've never had before in my life. I can honestly say the pain of death sounds like a welcome relief from the pain in my heart. I've never felt such pain, and the fact that the one who promised to protect me is causing it is a hard pill to swallow. I could probably benefit from some anti-depressants or at least a few good drinks but unfortunately this pregnancy is preventing me from seeking any form of physical relief. I have kids to think about and its the only thing keeping me even slightly sane.

Ok, to sum all that up. Please if you care about Chad, if you care about his family, do everything you can to separate yourself from him emotionally. Share with the other band mates and encourage them to be sensitive too. He got really mad at me when I told him I contacted you last time, but its up to you whether or not you want to share this info with him. I know he gets embarrassed easily and it causes a prideful reaction. He doesn't like to share private stuff. Usually I would respect that but doing so in this case would only allow this monster to grow even bigger.
Thanks,
Stormy

I'd probably just say, if she needs someone to talk to she needs to call her husband, or mother, or therapist, not your husband. But it doesn't sound like your H should stay in this band. Even if she quit text messaging so much, would that really set your mind at ease? The situation is not going to get any better if they are always around each other. Even IF they didn't have anything going on, this situation has caused you alot pain and your H doesn't care. And if they're having an affair you telling her nicely to back off isn't probably gonna do much. But there are others here that can probably give you better advice. Hang in there and take care of yourself.

Don't send that, if you already haven't. It does not good to appeal to the better instincts of an OP (other person) because they are excited to have the forbidden attention of a person who is "taken" and they feel like rebels, walking on the wild side.

Do not expose your vulnerabilities to this creature.

DO, however as I think Artor said, DO go and watch the band. Wear something that makes you look womanly and sexy and flaunts your pregnant belly. Pregnant women glow. Get a sitter for the kids. You do not need your H's permission to go and watch him play.

Make yourself a beautiful and obvious presence. Be charming and listen a lot. You could learn from the patrons and from the band, you could get some clues about what is going on that he doesn't want you to know. You might even learn how to contact the OW's husband. (Who by the way is likely NOT having an affair.)

He never loved you = textbook cheating spouse.

The shaved penis thing? Red flag. One thing I know is that when infested by pubic lice it helps to shave all the pubes down to the skin. Personally, I think a heavy thatch is attractive, but he may be fantasizing about - oh ******, not may be, he 99% sure is fantasizing about sex with the OW.

Anything you can do to break this thing off is fair. You are fighting for your family. Just try not to go off emotionally and come off looking like a harpy.

Don't expect emotional support from his family. They sound like enablers. If they are close enough geographically, just tell them you would appreciate them having the kids over for the night, but don't tell them what you are planning (going to watch your H play) because they just don't "get it". Why you want the evening for yourself is your own business.

And if you have to pay a sitter - ****** pay it. It's cheaper than a divorce.

He actually asked me to go to the show and arranged the babysitter for me. (First time he's ever done that). He also encouraged me to have a friend come so I wouldn't feel so alone. The only friend I could get to drive up here is the one I stayed with when I left. He seemed happy that it was her. ???? She knows everything. He's acting like such a freak. He did make a big deal out of driving separate cars so I could get home right after the show and not have follow them back to trevor's house and break down equipment.

It's so hard for me to feel beautiful right now because I'm only 10 weeks. I'm too fat for all of my clothes and no belly to show off. I puke all the time so I have big bags under my eyes. I think I may call my hair dresser today and schedule some pampering. I think it would do me some good. Or better yet, wait 'till saturday when my friend drives up here and brings her kids - leave all the kids with him and then both of us go alone.

The shaved pube thing... its something that he does periodically. He read somewhere that it makes your you know what look bigger. At first he said he did it for my benefit. That's why I was surprised that he did it while I was out of town and that's why I accused him of cheating.

The only people left to tell about the EA are his bandmates and her husband. EVERYONE else questioned whether or not to take me seriously. Even my best friend. She believes me 100%, but she is analytical and her first response when I told her about exposing the EA was, do you think anyone will even believe you? It's not like you have any evidence that they are actually doing anything.

How do I go about wrecking his fantasy land without being emotional?

I few days ago I posted an email I sent to their drummer. I think it warranted a response. I realized yesterday that it had been read, but no reply.

When he says he never loved me I always ask why he stayed around and wasted my time. His response is he was trying to fake it until he made it but it just never worked. That's the only thing he gained from the last book we read together. Be a faker!

I just scheduled a 3 hour manicure/pedicure. Not sure why it takes so long??? That's thursday. Maybe tonight after I get the house clean I will go shopping for a new dress and shoes.

I went to the show. I had my best friend drive up from 2 hours away for emotional support. When I walked in the door I had a total panic attack. I started shaking and came really close to crying and flipping out. Luckily my friend was there watching my face and helped calm me down. I was there for quite a while watching my H bounce of the walls before he noticed I was there. He could tell I was uncomfortable and made a point to spend his time not playing sitting next to me. He introduced me to everyone but they all looked at me like I was some sort of scary psycho ******.

I met her. She has a perfect body and wiggles around a lot. Her husband was there. He was overly friendly and kept telling me how proud I should be of my husband for being such an awesome musician. He flirted with my friend a lot. I got the distinct impression he is a swinger.

During the show my H kept giving me the OK signal. After the show he made a point to stick with me. He also had about 8 beers.

The next day I wasn't feeling very good about the whole deal. He wasn't acting as nice as he was the night before, partly because he got 4 hours of sleep and had a hangover. Later in the day my friend was leaving and my sister showed up. She had missed her train and needed a place to crash. As soon as he found out she was staying he asked her if she could watch the kids so we could go out to dinner alone.

Dinner was nice even though we had some conversations about why I wasn't feeling so comfortable the night before. On Monday he dropped his phone in the parkinglot and someone ran it over. He hasn't been able to talk to them or text message all week. Surprisingly this week he has been very attentive to me. Not so much as I would like but every day he has said or done hopeful things that he couldn't bring himself to do before. He's been spending time with me willingly every night. One night he suggested we play a board game after the kids went to bed instead of watch a movie.

When we were at dinner I gave him a list of things that I require. The first was a husband, an ipod, a sexy 7 passenger vehicle instead of the freakin stupid camper van I have to drive, a laptop, and a tummy tuck and boob job. I told him I wasn't high maintenance before, but now I am. He said good, you deserve it. A few days later he came home very excited to present me with a gift from my list. An ipod! Well not an ipod, a zune but its the same thing. It was a good gift and he seemed genuinely happy to give it to me.

I've been trying to think of ways to "admire" him. It's been tough because he is so not admirable right now. One night when he was practicing his bass I told him that I liked to listen to him practice because it relaxed me. Usually he wants me to leave the room while he practices, but now when I've been laying in bed in the evening not feeling well, he says "let me play my bass for you, because I know it relaxes you". He's let me cuddle him while he plays every night this week.

So those are just some of the details of my week. My heart still hurts a lot. I forgot to add that last week we had agreed that he would be moving out on Sunday. That didn't happen and no-one mentioned it. The deadline happened to coincide with his improved attitude. Since then I've had a much easier time controlling my emotions and doing my plan a perfectly.

I had to order him a new cell phone that will be here in a few days. He had to have the really expensive orange enV. The super text messaging phone. I think part of the reason we had such a good week was because he was not distracted by the OW's constant contact. I'm not looking forward to the new phone.

Maybe now he will be more sensitive to the situation, I don't know. I guess I'll keep on with plan A, he finally seems to be responding to it - thankfully. I'll need help keeping it up and figuring out when and how to go to plan b if necessary.

Thanks for all the support! It's good to have some relief from this mess. Even if its just temporary.

I'm still going strong with plan A. I had kind of a hard time with it yesterday because I didn't get enough sleep. I just felt depressed all day.

My WH is starting to respond to me. It's not as much as I want though. I'm so impatient. Yesterday he told me he was starting to be more attracted to me because I haven't criticized him at all and he's come home to a nice smelling house every day. He has even told me my new hair cut is very pretty about 5 times. He only says I love you if I say it first. I don't like that so I've been trying not to say it. If we are talking on the phone he just says, goodbye or I'll talk to you later.

How long until he starts returning some love? When can I start asking for it?

I read an e-book all about how to get a man back the other day and it seemed to contradict with everything dr. harley says. It was all about not giving them any more than they give you and making them think you are expensive, not giving them sex etc, and acting like you don't care about them.

He hasn't had much contact with the OW and has started mentioning to me how annoying she is. How she is needy and how he wants to be nice but has enough problems of his own and doesn't want to deal with her. Truth or a front?