Okay, I agree. I sorta spaced that one. Yea, it doesn't look like he is doing much lifting. Thanks

Larry

Got it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As always Bob, all the best.

Larry

FLT2H

it would help immensely if DH, like Larry, would explain what would make him happy.

Have you asked him? If so, what does he say?

the fact is, maybe he does not explain because NOTHING will make him happy.

Well maybe yes, maybe no. It could be that he is reluctant to tell you. For example, it would make me extremely happy if my wife were to invite me for a ride. Without telling me where we were going, we would pull up to where the OM lives and she would get out of the car and kick him between the legs as hard as she could. I am not going to tell her that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

She made me nearly jump through my skin after two years almost to the date when she said out of the blue, "I foked up Larry, really bad." That was a major, major big deal with me. Her tone and voice was more sad than at any other time I have known her.

She has asked me to get married again. I have demurred so far. I may take her up on it.

maybe some people cannot work thur the betrayal.

Accurate.

and yet he is not saying that. he says he wants to stay married. he says he has forgiven me but always follows that up with he has not forgotten, which is ok. i won't be forgetting ever either.

Well, and therein is the rub. Forgiving is relatively easy if you love someone. Shaking off the sadness of betrayal is a herculean task I haven't managed completely yet.

I have some suggestions. Gosh, I wish my wife would ask someone as you have. Be that as it may, here you go:

1. Don't give up. Never, ever, ever give up. He will smell it on you like a plague of locusts.

2. Understand something; he is vulnerable to you at a level it is hard to explain but I will try. With a look or word or tone of voice, you can devastate him. Understand that you hurt him at a level that is hard to grasp unless you have been on the receiving end of adultery.

In other words, be kind to him. You will be amazed at his reaction. At least do this one if nothing else.

Sorry, I am bogging down. This is hard. I think I better stop for now. Maybe I can work up something for you later on tonight. Probably it would be helpful for you to study PTSD. It is real and likely applies to your situation.

Just be kind.

Larry

I bumped the sadness thread. You might find it helpful. It is GQII.

Larry

Hey FLT2H,

I think we’ve discussed this before and it seems that you and your DH are still pretty much in the same place as 3 years ago… Your DH is still with you and doesn’t want to leave you, but he hasn’t progressed or been willing to work through the A issues with you.

Larry had some good points in that if YOU are not satisfied with the state of the M, regardless of the past, it is YOUR responsibility to let your H know this…

One of the hardest things for Mrs. RIF to do post-affair, was to get up the nerve to really “put me in my place” when I was doing something that hurt her. I can only guess that she felt that she had no “right” to confront me after hurting me. This actually happened when we were in MC… and my initial reaction was “how dare she” even think this way after all “I’ve done for her”… It was a classic “taker” mentality on my part.

Thankfully, our MC guided us through this phase and she learned that it was important for her to let me know her true feelings… because keeping her hurt feelings bottled up inside her and NOT sharing them with me… was one of the contributing factors for her multiple A’s….

The key to sharing our feelings with our mate is to do it in a loving way…

FL – I think it would really help you if you can learn how to communicate your feelings and desires with your DH. It’s YOUR responsibility to let him know how you feel. I suspect that you WANT to do this, but are afraid that if you confront him, that he will leave… and that you still feel that you can’t do this because of the past A’s…

Please give this some thought and talk with your IC to see if she can help you learn how to communicate your feeling in a loving way to your DH.

Semper Fi,

RIF

FLT2H--

There has been some great stuff posted on this thread from BH's all along the timeline. I know I can relate to much of it and can attest to the accuracy of the feelings represented.

But, like your husband, I struggle with believing that my wife views me as "special" in a meaningful way.

Sure, I'm "special" because I wear the counterpart to her wedding ring. I exchanged vows with her almost 20 years ago. I am the father of our children. I live in the same house and share the same bed.

These things no other man can claim -- not even any of her OM.

But it was many of these things that have been "corrupted" or "cheapened" by her decision to have her affairs.

She violated our vows, she shared his bed, she told him she loved him, she made plans to leave me.....

It's hard, sometimes, for the BH to convince himself that he's not much more than "second best" or a financial "convienence" for the WW / FWW.

As was suggested on this thread, a BH frequently compares himself with the OM and typically sees his own shortcomings as magnified.

Looking back, I can see things my wife did for her OM -- ways she dressed, took care of herself, long lunches, skipping school to see him, in short -- the way she went to "special" extremes to please him.

Now that she's not in an affair, these things have stopped. No "special" clothes for me, never comes to my work to meet me for lunch, when I come to her work for lunch it's always "I've got to get back soon", etc. You get the picture.

I'm not thread-jacking here -- just trying to help you see how a BH can view himself as less "special" than his wife's other men.

I agree you both should fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaire. It really is a pretty non-confrontational survey. I finally got my wife to fill it out and she was surprised how high Admiration and Sexual Fulfillment were on my list (numbers 1 and 2).

I would suggest that you encourage him to use the blanks at the bottom of each page to WRITE ways you can meet those needs. My wife did little more than circle the numbers and letters of the answers and spend very little time expressing herself in the blanks. I expressed that I wish she had written more and pushed her into the, "You're never satisfied with me" speech. Not my intention. So set out any expectations you have first -- it will help the process of reviewing it together go smoother.

Back to your question:

I would feel special if my wife were to come to me and say something along the lines of, "DH, I messed up badly. I look at the OM now and realize they don't comapre to you. I failed to see how you are a better man than they are -- I see that now. I love you and would be sad without you in my life as my husband. I am sorry for what I did to you and our marriage."

Maybe you've already said this to your husband. If so, he's lucky. Sometimes, FWS say things that they truly mean, but he BS isn't "ready" to accept them or hear them when they are said. Perhaps in your situation, since you self-exposed, you expressed this to him, but he was still reeling from the impact that he didn't "hear" it.

If you read MarriedForever's recent thread involving her expressing to her husband her need to hear "I'm sorry" more than once, you get a picture of my wife. "I already said I'm sorry -- I don't need to say it again." The problem was, I wasn't always ready to hear it when it was said. Maybe that's my fault and problem, but it's not a hard thing for the FWS to remedy -- express it again when the BS is listening. I'm not advocating, by the way, the FWS become a "whipping-boy" and "puppet" of the BS -- that's abuse and doesn't belong in a healthy marriage. But a willingness to recognize the impact of the damage they've done and a willingness to address it head-on -- no matter how uncomfortable or painful is sometimes needed.

When I see my wife bending over backward to do something nice for me -- I feel special. Not something courteous ("Can I get you a drink?"), but something she would only do for me ("I mowed the lawn for you while you were at work so we could spend time together.") Not that I expect her to mow the lawn every week (I thought that's what I had children for) -- but hopefully you get the idea.

I'm wrestling with just such an issue in bed with her -- something I know she did with OM, but won't consider without great protestation with me. Not something kinky or involving latex/chains/leather -- just a "convienence" issue that I'm working through. Part of feeling as if she did things for her OM she wouldn't do for me. "Specialness" reserved for him, but not me.

How much does your husband know of your interaction / time with your OM? Are there details that could be haunting him?

Sorry this is so long, but I can relate on some level to where your husband is, except I'm the one pushing counseling and pro-active recovery and my wife would rather pretend it never happened.

I wish you well, FLT2H -- you are to be applauded for seeking help with your husband. Some wounds heal slower -- others leave scars -- but together you can build a new and better marriage.

Blessings

Hello FLT2H,

I've enjoyed reading the responses to this interesting topic. I dream of the day that Bonkers would even consider posing this question to herself let alone like you have on this board.

for those BHs whose marriages are not yet recovered. do you have ideas as to what actions by your wife would help you feel special again.

I think the answer to your question is when both of your Love Banks are overflowing for each other. I think feeling special is a mutual thing in a relationship and not one sided as you suggest. I don't think that you can make him feel special unilaterally. He's got to bring something to the party too. The actions that you both need to take are down to the individuals involved.

IMHO, your marriage is still at risk because you don't really understand what his ENs are and, more importantly, how he likes to have them fulfilled - and vice versa. He doesn't understand yours and how you like them fulfilled.

I think your H's reluctance to engage in questionnaires or MC is alarming and you should be very concerned about it. I think you are entitled to make a 'thoughtful request' for him to engage in helping to repair your marriage. The Love Busters book has an excellent description of how to make thoughtful requests instead of demands and how to discuss reluctance or objections in a way that doesn't harm. Maybe there are ways other than the questionnaires or MC that can get you both to the point where you properly fulfil each others ENs?

I think your H is very lucky to have a repentant FWW who wants to repair the marriage. As I said, I dream of getting one of those. However, no matter how repentant you are, a relationship in which you are both unfulfilled is not worth having and is unlikely to last. Sounds savage but true.

there is one thing he has told me would be meaningful and that is to lose weight. i'm about 30lbs over weight.

So you have identified one EN - physical attractiveness.

i try and i fail over and over.

I sympathise. Try something different to your previous attempts. Try this or the book. It works.

You also seem to have identified another of his ENs - SF. Even better with this one, you know something about how he likes it fulfilled - by you initiating it. However since you too prioritise this EN, he should fulfil it in a way you like too. The fact that he doesn't and you have become exhausted by the one-way traffic is another symptom of your relationship failing.

Hark at me preaching like some kind of expert <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I'm demonstrably not or else I wouldn't be in my position. Hopefully my 2 cents is of some value.

I wish you the best of luck.

Hey FLT2H,

How was your weekend? You're getting some great posts here...



God has forgiven AND forgotten your past sins... Learn from the past, then move on.

There is no reason to wallow in the past just to "keep you from doing the same thing again"...


Semper Fi,

RIF

Hi all,

The family was out of town for the weekend and then my DS and i went on a mini mom/son overnighter. i'll be back tommorow and will respond more. i do thank you for these posts, i read them fast cuz i'm sitting in a hotel lobby right now. i'll certainly be reading again when i have time to go slow and respond then.

thanks, FL

Absolutely. I can remember when I proposed to my WW. Her response was not what I expected and certainly not very emotional. It was more like a big sigh and then "okay". I spent some time thinking well, don't worry too much about that. Afterall, we had dated for years and try as I might, its not like when I popped the question it was a big surprise. At first, I chalked it up to maybe I was expecting too much from her reaction. Later, I chalked it up to "well, my WW is just not one to show a lot of emotion" After about 4 years of M I realized that I was not very special to my WW. It was at that point I knew my WW was going to leave me one day.


In short, either invest in me and acknowledge when I pay dividends, or when I invest in her, she pays dividends, or, preferrably, both.

Investing involves discovery, exploration, risk, openess, possibilities.

Acknowledging dividends involves respect, authenticity, forgiveness, empathy, reciprocity.

Dividends involve needs and wants.

IMHO, within that framework, its hard to get to specifics. People stop feeling special when someone stops investing in them. People stop feeling special when you don't acknowledge dividends they provide or paying dividends when they invest in you. People stop feeling special when the dividends you provide don't match their needs and wants. There are tons of combinations that short circuit the loop.

well to anyone that has seen my other thread you know what's been going on.

anyway, DH has said directly that he never really has felt special to me. with one exception. when i arranged the purchase of a motorcycle for him as a surprise xmas present.

that's if folks, 25yr relationship, 3 children (one in heaven), the motorcyle is the only time he felt special.

nice message. huh?

so ark, if you are reading this one. what is going on is so much more then dressers.

Special. Hmmm. Tried to answer that before, had some new thoughts.

Special. Well, BS rewrite history too. I know my wife used to make me feel special BA (Before affair). I forgot all that until recently. Her affair whipped all that out of my mind, so to speak.

Special. I saw her look at the OM with a look of rapture on her face. This was just before I discovered what was going on. I thought at the time, "WTF." I don't remember her ever looking at me like that.

But she did yesterday. I saw it. She made me feel special.

Then I remembered. She used to look at me like that when we were working on starting our youngest. Then I had a chill; was that on her mind that one time I saw her looking at OM? Never mind, he didn't start anything except bad news. But I didn't feel so special anymore.

Then she looked at me again this morning the same way. Yea, she wants another kid. We have three. That's enough. Life goes on as best as it can be. If you look back, something might be gaining on you.

The joy in your heart shows through your eyes and face. He will see it, or not as he chooses.

Larry