How does this sound? I have some archiving work I do in the evenings. I've been doing it while we watch tv together in the living room. Say I do this: I sit in the living room watching tv & doing my work, he's on the couch ignoring me, I make comments on the show like I usually do. Would that be like you're suggesting?? I wouldn't be avoiding him & really, he can't ignore me forever if I'm in the room!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tomorrow, while he's in the bathroom, I will get up & fix his lunch stuff, like I've been doing. I'll just leave it on the counter by his meds so he can see it.

OH GOD!!!! I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE!!!

I called his work cell number today. He text messaged her on the way to work. She called that number back at 5:04am & left a message that I listened to.

"Thanks for text messaging me this morning. I've had a rough week. I still love you & miss you. I'll talk to you sometime."

She was boo-hooing.

I can't take this anymore. That message cut right through my heart. I think I need to file for D. I just have to find a way to get the money. He'll never leave her alone & I can't live like this, being ignored. I called my realtor & told her to get the house sold ASAP. I don't care if we have to sell it for what's owed on it. I've just got to get out of this. He's not going to try, he's staying here until the house sells & he can get a D.

For my heart's sake, I really need to find a way to go Plan B immediately.

I have forgotten why you are selling your home. Is it because of a possible divorce? Anyway, I would get it all cleaned up and dejunked. Watch one of those shows on TV about how to get a house ready to show.

Remember, Plan A doesn't usually end the affair. It is just to give the WS some good memories. It will probably take Plan B to wake him up.

Are you working outside the home?

Did you ever get SURVIVING AN AFFAIR?

You do know that PLAN A is done while the affair IS continuing?

KNOW AND ACCEPT THAT CONTACT BETWEEN THEM IS CONTINUING....is part of PLAN A....

Lost,

I am very sorry to see your sitch. Your WH may be more than just the usual run of the mill WH. WS's are selfish and entitled while in the A and in the fog. However, in some people, this behavior existed prior to the A, it is their personality and character. It seems like from what you say with his reactions to prior accidents (more than 10 years ago) he was also angry with you. Also it appears that even his mom says he has anger issues.

MB doesn't address these character/personality issues. I agree with ForeverHers, you need to have some boundaries in place. Plan A doesn't mean the WS gets a free pass to be disrespectful, yelling at you at the scene of the accident, well that crosses a line IMHO.

In my sitch, my FWH grew up in a FOO which his mom and sisters catered to him. This is deeply engrained in FWH. He doesn't even realize that most of the time his world revolves around him and his feelings. This goes beyond A's. I have learned, and continue to learn, to put boundaries in place, and to let him know when he is being uncaring.

I am having to accept that I choose someone that doesn't have a level of care that I need and then judge him by this, become angry that he is what he always has been. I don't have any real answers beyond that, still trying to figure it out.

It looks like your getting stronger and standing up for yourself, good job!

Keep on growing,

nab

Oh, lost.

It sucks that your H is being such a jerk. The whole pretending like you're not even there thing is so incredibly juvenile. And doing it around your kids, how silly. It really does make him look ridiculous -- to everyone, not just you.

But I firmly believe that he's trying to make you justify his A. He's looking for excuses to do whatever he wants to do. He's trying to find a way for it to be alright. Right now, the car accident is a handy excuse (as convoluted as it sounds to us).

He's being a total, complete jerk. He should have been seriously worried about your welfare in the accident. He should have been ashamed of himself for making you do that community service, he should be avoiding contact with the OW, he should be kissing your rear end and begging you to forgive his idiocy .... there are lots and lots of things he should be doing. And eventually he will get to the point where he recognizes those things and realizes what a scum bag he's been to you.

But he's not anywhere near that point yet.

Right now, he's trying to make it acceptable for himself to carry on with his A. He's trying to make you give up. He knows that he's wrong, and he's trying to find a way to make it alright. He's looking for proof that you are a terrible wife, looking for ways to make YOu be the one to quit and give up.

And hon, you are falling right into his trap. You said that you still love him and want to save your M ... but every time he ups the ante, you respond. You kick him out, you give up, you say you can't do it anymore, you AO and DJ and fall apart. You respond to his actions at his level.

Plan A is all about NOT sinking to his level. It's about showing him that you're a great wife, regardless of how much of an a$$ he is. It's about making sure he knows that there is a much better alternative -- that creating a great, happy, stable M with you is possible and in his best interests.

And THEN, once you've done that, THEN you go to Plan B and protect yourself from his [censored]-ness and let him miss you and let him realize how bad off he is without you.

IMO, you haven't had a chance to do the great Plan A yet. It's hard, I know. I used to watch my H go out on dates with his OW after we tucked our kids into bed. It would kill me, and I'd come here and say the same things "I can't do this anymore...!"

But you CAN. And I believe that it's the best way to have a chance to save your M.

I'm all for setting boundaries. And I'm not advocating you just roll over and let him treat you like crap. You need to let him know that it's not acceptable. You can most certainly say things to him like
"It is not ok to treat me like I don't exist. I am your wife, the mother of your children."
"I understand that you are angry. I am angry and hurt, too. I still plan on learning how to have a very happy, caring, loving, supportive, healthy marriage."
"You've chosen not to speak to me, your wife, and to speak to your mistress instead. That feels like a knife twisting right into my stomach."

Share your pain, speak your truth. Dont' expect a reaction -- he'll pretend not to care or not to hear it. But you will know that you said something and didn't allow it to just go on. And you will also know that you still did the things you needed to do to show him that you're a great wife -- even when he's not such a great husband.


There will be a time for Plan B. And it will be when YOU determine it is time. When YOU set the circumstances, YOU make the plans and YOU decide. Not just when he's become enough of a jerk to drive you into it.


-AmI.

He talked to me when he came home last night. I let him know that I knew he had sent her a text message. For 3 months now & really longer, he has been telling me he doesn't love her, doesn't want to be with her but wants to be her friend. He calls because he's concerned about how she's doing. I told him that when I heard the message, it felt like they both stabbed me in the heart & twisted the knife. And, as expected, he got all high & mighty, "you snooped through my phone; I hate your guts for snooping; I thought maybe we could work this out but since you did that, no way; There is no us because of that; I'll destroy every cell phone in this house." I even looked at him & said, "I expected you to say exactly that."



I didn't fall this time. I did all my AO & DJ this time right here. I wanted to get it all out before he came home so I wouldn't do it. I refuse to kick him out. When he pops off "Are you kicking me out again?" I calmly say "No, I won't kick you out again. I want you here. If you leave again, it's your decision, not mine." I am not going to fall to his level this time.



I did say that it was not alright to treat me that way. I told him (& I did it calmly) that I knew he was mad about the car, that I expected him to be mad & he had the right to be. But I didn't do it on purpose & I was very upset that it had happened. I told him I felt stabbed in the heart when I heard the message. I told him that I wanted to make a better marriage for both of us.

He asked me why I couldn't have done these things before now, during our whole marriage. I told him that I didn't realize how important some things were to him. That I did for him the things I thought would show him I loved him, not knowing that that was not what he needed from me. I did things that, if they were done for me, showed love & concern for someone. Now I know the difference & that it's not too late to do it right & make a go of it. I'm just now understanding what he's been saying, I see the things I did wrong all these years. I did them wrong because I was dumb about what to do. No one had ever taught me the difference & I didn't understand his language, just as I felt he didn't always understand mine. That I know that a clean house shows him I love him, whereas buying me a new car or something like that is not what I need to know he loves me. That I need different things than he does & I understand that better now, too.

Sarcastically, he said "Oh, & how do you know that now?" I told him about this site & the book I'm reading. I told him that it shows a way for us to have a better marriage than we have had the last 24 years. His reply "I ain't playing no games." I told him it wasn't a game, just a way for us to sit down together, talk & help each other see what we both need, so we can meet each other's needs.

When it came up about the kids, I looked him in the eye, said "I feel that you love those kids so much, you can't deal with how much they've been hurt by all this. You're not ready to see their pain." His reply was "Oh really?" but I saw pain behind the sarcasm. I know he hurts, even though he told me last night I don't know. Yeah, he's been mad about wrecks in the past, but never before like this. I've also seen in the past, that he covers up feelings of scared & worried with anger. It's easier to handle that way than to admit at that moment to those feelings. Usually after it's all over, he calms down & tells me how he really felt. I think his reaction was over-exaggerated due to the problems we have right now financially. I was behind on my car payment & having a hard time getting caught up. I think this was God's way of getting me out of that payment so I could get something I could afford easier.

Last night, he said he wanted to go back to the way it's been for the last three days, as if we don't exist to each other. I said "fine but I'm not going to stop doing what I've been doing." This morning, while he was in the bathroom getting ready for work, I put his drinks in a bag & left them on the counter by his meds for him to see when he got there. There was a note on the counter when I got up shortly after he left. It said "Thank you for bagging my drinks this morning." Under it I wrote "You're welcome!" He'll find it when he gets home. I'm not going to stop just because he wants me to. I'll stop showing him I love him when he divorces me, & only then.

I will admit I did cry. I can't seem to help that. When the hurt is too great to hold in, I cry. Not to manipulate but to ease the pain. I'm hanging in there, taking care of the house. I started packing up books yesterday since people are starting to look at the house. We are trying to sell it because the payments are high & so far, we haven't, because of late payments, been able to get it re-financed to payments we can afford. I don't want to lose my house, & he doesn't either, though he won't say it very often. Hope is still there with another bank where a friend of mine works. We're waiting on word right now.

Thanks, ya'll. I need the hugs. I'm trying harder than I've ever tried at anything in my life. I'm fighting for my life. I'm glad I can tell it all here before I say it to him & ruin everything I've done so far. It helps.

Wow .... !!
Way to go!

You did a nice job, even in the face of him being cruel. That's not easy to do, so I hope you feel proud of yourself. Keep it up, you're doing great.

What's your plan for tonight? If he wants to not interact, then what are you going to do? Do you normally make dinner? What's the normal routine for your evenings? Maybe some of the really good Plan A strategists can help find good oportunities in there.

How is the insurance stuff coming along? Are they going to total your car?

-AmI.

He's mad at you over a freakin' Datsun? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

What happened 2 "Honey, are you alright? Never mind the car, it's a 'thing' and things can be repaired or replaced. People can't."

Maybe the Datsun can be repaired so that when he goes, he can be buried in it?

Are you okay? That's my first 2uestion, and I don't even know you...

best,
-ol' 2long

AmI,

Geico came yesterday & looked at car. It's totaled but I figured they would, $3000 to $4000 to replace each airbag & both deployed. I checked NADA & they called today & are giving me $5 more than NADA - $500 deductible. So I think it will just pay it off & maybe a little left over. If there is any left over, I will buy new tires for DD#2 truck. Hers are bad & I'm driving it alot.

If he comes home tonight & doesn't want to interact, I will go on as I usually do. I have to go to the grocery store (didn't do it because of the wreck). Then I'll come home & clean the living room shelves that I have emptied since it's a pretty good bet right now that we will be moving. I will probably fix supper since he complained last night that no one does anymore (not true but haven't been able to because no one's been home long enough). I called him at lunch & left a voicemail about the payoff on the car. He hasn't called back but I didn't expect him to.

I'm really worried about him. He came home yesterday & immediately started calling doctors he's been to & asking for an EKG report. They did an EKG on him Friday, when I went to the doctor with him. He told me at first that it was none of my business & it didn't concern me. I'll ask him again in a text message.

solong,

The anger is a pattern with him. When I broke my tailbone & he had to take me to the emergency room, he hollered & acted mad the whole way, until the doctor finished & told him that nothing major was hurt, just a broke butt (& that's exactly how he said it, LOL). Unfortunately, he uses the anger to cover up the worry & scared he feels. According to MIL, done it all his life. After he finds out everything is ok, he isn't angry anymore. But the reaction this time is because of the WH fog & the financial sitch we are in. We can't afford another new car right now, which is why DD#2 sees this as an opportunity to get something she thinks she will like better than her truck & I will take her payments which are about half what mine were on my car.

We'll see how the evening plays out. I'll keep everyone updated!

Accidents happen, that's what full coverage insurance is for. Sometimes, like you said, things like this are a blessing in disguise. You really needed out of that car payment.

He needs to look at the big picture. Nobody died, and no one has a terminal illness or disease. You didn't intentionally run into that guy to upset him.

Him being so mad is just an excuse to justify talking to OW, IMO.

You did NOTHING wrong by having an accident.

An update.

WH is still mad about the car, mainly because of the finances. We can't afford a new one & our insurance will go up. As he got all the details of the wreck & the police report, he realizes I was NOT following too close (as is mostly the case with me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />). He is still mad but I'm mad about it, too. I really loved my car. Only had it a 18 months.

I wrote him a letter yesterday. In it was things we had talked about, what I heard him saying, my feelings on things. Yesterday was a really low day for me, probably the lowest since D-day. I was really down. I worded things so it wasn't an AO, DJ or anything, I hope. No accusations but did have questions I needed answers to. I left it on the table with his stuff, he was asleep. I went on to the plasma center to donate. When I got back, the letter was missing from the table. I've snooped in all the trash cans & drawers & can't find it anywhere, so he read it but apparently didn't throw it away. I'm not sure what he did with it. When I walked in the living room, he asked if I was pi$$ed. I told him I wasn't pi$$ed about anything, just really down & feeling like giving up. He asked if it was about him sleeping on the couch. I told him no, but the whole situation in general, that I figured he was sleeping on the couch because he was still mad. And he said that was why.

We talked about the situation. I never asked him if he read the letter or where it was. But I did bring up things I had written in there, never referring to the letter at all. He told me he doesn't know why he keeps contacting the OW. He assured me he doesn't love or want her anymore. We talked about the fact that it wasn't fair to OW or me to keep us hanging. That he was keeping her from going on with her life. I mentioned that when you have had feelings of love like that about someone, if you break it off & then call them, it gives them the impression that you still feel that way, whether you say it in words or not. I told him I know about that, that a woman especially will feel that way. He told me he wanted to give me what I want, be it him or freedom. I looked him straight in the eye and said "I want you." He told me he keeps thinking he will wake up one day & his mind will suddenly be straight. I told him I didn't think it would happen that way, that you have to work on straightening out your mind.

I talked to him about the MB plan for recovery. That it is a proven system to get things back on track. That I've talked to people here who have used it & their marriages are in recovery. He looked interested. I told him about the SAA book & suggested he also read it. That it was for both of us to read & he would probably be better able to understand the road to recovery. I hope he reads it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Short change of subject. Most of the time, I'm at work when I get on here. My boss is 78 & when he has nothing to do he comes up & sits across from my desk. Doesn't always talk, just sits. Drives me batty!!!!

Back to update:

He asked me if I wanted him to sleep with me. I told him I hadn't asked him to sleep on the couch so I figured he would come back to bed when he got over being mad. He came back to bed last night. And more than that, there was SF too. It was good. He told me afterwards, before he fell asleep, that it was because he wanted me, not because I was convenient & not because he thought he had to. I told him I appreciated him telling me that, it made me feel better. We slept like we have all our married lives, before D-day.

Today, the fog may be back but I hope not. He seemed to understand for the first time that his continued contact was keeping her on the hook. He mentioned that he thought he was scared. I said I thought he was terrified of doing the right thing. He looked at me & asked me what the right thing was. I said to either choose between us or let us both go so we could go on with our lives. I told him I felt like I was in a tug of war with him alone. With one hand he's pulling me to him & with the other hand he's pushing me away. He said he doesn't know what he's doing or why. I told him I can understand that. I mentioned that he keeps bringing up that I should go find someone else but that when I mention dating, the look in his eyes tells me he is mad about that. That he gets mad when anyone else mentions my being able to find someone else. How he won't discuss it when we talk about separating & divorcing. He doesn't think he really wants a divorce.

I hope he will join me on this road to recovery. Yesterday, there seemed to be a breakthrough. I'm not sure if the letter had anything to do with it or not. I did tell him I thought I was at the lowest point in my life, that I couldn't fall any further.

He has a company picnic coming up in October. I mentioned it in my letter.



This is what I think about it but didn't say to him.
If she is there, so what. I've sat at the same table with her & ignored her, I can certainly do it in a crowd of people. I have no desire to have a public fight with her. I'm a better woman than that.

This is something I said in the letter.



This is how I ended it.



Probably not what I was supposed to do. I tried not to LB anything. I wasn't angry when I wrote it so I don't think any anger came through. I didn't accuse him of anything. I guess I'll know more when we get home today. I got up with him this morning, as usual. I got his drinks ready, we talked some about our day, I walked him to the door like I always do. He turned & kissed me goodbye. A good sign because he hasn't done it in weeks. Yesterday morning he wished me a good day when he left. Tuesday evening he asked me why I fixed his drinks for him that morning. I told him I did it because I love him & I wasn't going to stop doing things for him, even if we were disagreeing about things. I told him I did it because I wanted to. He seemed to like that.

I hope this is the beginning of a turn-around for us. He was different last night when I got home. I went to tell him something, he asked me to stop yelling, I said I wasn't, he said I was so I said, I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to yell & calmed my voice down. It worked. No fighting & no hateful or sarcastic words. It felt really good.

Pray for us, as I know everyone does. I can't thank ya'll enough for the prayers, good thoughts, 2X4's, encouragement & help I've been given here. Thank you!!!

why do you disclose so much to his mother...

do you think that bodes well for your and his recovery...

ARK

How's it going today, lost?

Not so good, I think. Another down day for me. She won't quit calling & he has never told her he doesn't want to be with her. She told a friend she would stay away if he would just tell her what he wants, that she's beginning to think he's stringing her along. I wish she'd just disappear. I wish he'd let her or me go, one of the two. I can't live with him having her as a friend. Can't do it. Kinda back in the fog but I don't think it's as thick as it was in the beginning.

I guess what gets me is he really doesn't even know why he keeps contacting her. He is emphatic about the fact that he don't love her & don't want to be with her anymore. She left another message yesterday that I heard before he changed his voicemail code. Wanting info about someone who can fix her 4wheeler. She ended it with "As for anything I need, I need you, that's all. I'll talk to you later." I didn't tell him I heard that one. And I don't know how to figure out his code.

He wants to keep acting like we're fine in public. Like our marriage is surviving. He tries to cut me off from any friends or family that I confide in & vent to. If he knew I was talking to his mother, he'd cut that off, too. I may be telling her more than I should, but she has always been there for me when I needed to vent, especially about him. And since she just found about the A a couple of weeks ago, she lets me talk if I need to. She would even give me the money for a divorce if I felt I truly needed to go through with it. He doesn't know that she knows the whole story & he never told her directly about OW, just told her he'd done something she wouldn't be proud of him for. She has never let on that she knew, waiting for him to tell her, because he usually does.

Today is the first football game of the high school season. Our DD#2 is in the band & the flag corp so we go to all the games. He'll sit there with me like nothing is wrong. Then he is leaving tomorrow morning to go to Louisiana for his annual fishing trip with his 2 best friends.

The right thing to do would be for him to either let us both go so we can get on with our lives or choose which one he wants & tell the other one goodbye. He's told me several times he's broken off with her, but I never have any proof. That's how I know it will never end.

I just talked to him on the phone. He doesn't want to lose her friendship. I feel I have nothing left to gain. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

Yuck. The downs on the roller coaster are not any fun.

Remember that Plan A is all about contact. It's about breaking up the A. Did you read that thread of Ark's? So this isn't new. You already knew he was still in contact. And you already knew that a WS isn't going to know or care what "the right thing to do" is.

The right thing to do is for him to kick her to the curb and kiss your toes and crawl on his knees begging for forgiveness .... but that's not going to happen just yet.

So try not to focus on what he should be doing, and focus instead on what you are doing. Your plan, your own behaviors.

It's hard, I've been there. Sometimes it would help me to think of the rabbit hole image, or the drug addict illustration. His behavior is about fantasy & addiction. It's not about you, not yours to own or worry about or be responsible for.

You follow your own plan, and you tell him how you feel. How much it hurts when he contacts her. And then leave it there. You aren't responsible for his reaction, you aren't responsible for making him stop -- that's his choice. You can't talk him into it, you can't force him into it, he has to do it on his own. And eventually, you will put a big Plan B boundary down and let him know that you won't tolerate it any more. But until then, you let him know how you feel, and then walk away. Don't even listen to his response, much less argue with him or discuss it with him, because it will all be nonsense fantasy.

I once told my H that it was like he let someone into our house, and that person beat the heck out of me and the kids and our home with a baseball bat ... and now he thought I should be ok with him wanting to "be friends" with her, and leaving the dooor open for her to come back into our house anytime she wanted.

He argued that no one hit me with a bat, that it wasn't affecting the kids, blah blah blah ... and he didn't stop having contact with her right away -- in fact, contact continued for a long time after that. But it's an image that stuck with him, that he stewed over and often brought up later when he had finally cut off contact with her. It wasn't my job to make him react or respond, it was just my job to tell him how I felt.

So let him know how muchit hurts you, then leave it. Don't argue, don't discuss, just leave it.


As for talking and venting .... you do need a support system IRL, and there is definitely a place for exposure. But I agree with Ark, the more dirty laundry you hang out to his mom, the harder it will be to clean it all up in recovery. You might want to re-think that a little.

Who else have you exposed to? Have you exposed to her friends and family? This friend that told you she said she'd give up if he told her to -- does that friend know?

It may not hurt to let the OW know that yes, honey, he is stringing you along. I assume you know who she is, does she know that he's married, still living with you, still having SF with you?

SH once advised me to contact the OW, to put a real face on the person she's hurting, and also to let her know that my H was lying to her, too. That he was still sleeping with me, still saying that he wanted to work on the M, etc. He said that the OW needed to get the picture that she was being lied to and "cheated on" as well.

I never went through with it -- I was too afraid I'd lose my cool and I felt like it would be a lie, because by then we weren't sleeping together anymore. But it sounds like the OW in your case might need to hear the same message, since she's already starting to think that he's stringing her along.

Do her friends and family know about the A? That he is married, with kids, and that you are trying to save your M?


Your H wanting to go out in public and pretend that nothing is wrong .... it's a little disingenuous on his part, but it provides lots of great Plan A opportunities for you. Make sure that you guys have a great time, that it's light-hearted and fun and remind him of how great those times can be, and how much fun you both have together, how great your smile is, all those fun things. Think of it as a date and set off to wow him. Doesn't matter how you got him there, you're there, and he's at least faking it. It's a great chance for you.

And you never know, maybe the reason he's "trying to pretend like we're fine in public" is becasue he really wants everything to be fine. It's better than him trying to pretend ike you're already D'd in public!


Hang in there. You're going to be alright.

-AmI.

AmI,

Yeah, the downs are awful. Yes, the OW knows who I am. I called her a day or two after I caught them together, not knowing it was her. She sympathized with me, said my WH had really helped her with her B/WH by giving her a man's point of view. Blah, Blah, Blah. I wanted to kill her when I found out the identity of the OW. She pretended to be my friend.

The friend who talks to her is a co-worker of my WH. He lets me know what's going on at work. And he knew about the A almost from the beginning, as did everyone in the plant. They didn't hide it as well as they thought they did. My WH was shocked when another worker told him everyone already knew about it, after they got in trouble with corporate. He really thought they had kept it hidden. Several of his co-workers are also friends of mine & have told me things I needed to know.

As of now, I've exposed to everyone. Even old friends we haven't seen in a long time. I see no reason to hide it anymore.

Friday was pretty good, we won the game. He left on Saturday morning for his trip. I didn't speak to him until he came home. He had left his cell in his truck & couldn't or wouldn't call me from his friend's cell. He could have & he knows I know that. When he got home, I helped him put up the fish & shrimp. He made a snide remark that K's wife had supper fixed when they pulled in the drive. I told him that if I'd gotten a call, I'd have fixed supper also but I wasn't sure when they would be home. His answer "Now you know I didn't have my phone, that I left it in my truck." I said "Yes, but K had his phone." He got that irritated tone with me & I told him he didn't have to talk to me that way, that I was working as fast as I possibly could. Later, I asked him if he was glad to be home, since they stayed in a Trailer that wasn't very clean, had holes in the floor, etc. He told me he'd rather have stayed there. Now, mind you, I had cleaned the house, vaccuumed & mopped all the floors, etc. so he would come home to a nice place. He didn't notice. I said nothing about it.

Today, at lunch, I talked to the co-worker who has been telling me what's going on there. He said my WH asked about OW & that WH acted mad at him. I asked what he told him about her & he said he told him that she was dating some guys she had found on the internet on a dating site, that she was tired of waiting on him. I told this friend that WH wasn't mad at him, but upset about her dating again. That this is a pattern with him because when he's upset with someone else, he acts all mad at me. Jealousy rears its ugly head.

Friday, we talked & agreed to be the happy couple in public but go our separate ways in private. That way we could spend time with anyone we wanted & didn't have to answer to the other. Not a good plan A thing but what could I do besides agree? He asked about what would happen if he wanted to spend time with me. I told him to ask me. I told him I would agree to this so that I could live with his friendship with her. He told me that I talk to my ex-BFs. I told him only if I see them on the street or they come in my office & then it's only a hello, how ya doing & strictly business, no personal questions asked or answered by me. I told him I don't call any of them on the phone to see how they are & if they need anything. He threw at me that if he saw her in public, he would speak & I said that was different. Personally, I don't think we will ever see her in public if this ever ends. I know he will be mad at me when he gets home because he's had news of her. I'm sure he called her to find out if what he heard was true. I'm getting to where I just don't care anymore. I'd beg him to let me go if I thought it would do any good & wouldn't be totally against my Plan A. While talking all this out Friday, I told him that if he or I found anyone else, we could then divorce. "But what if, down the road, I want to make our marriage work?" he asked. I said we would cross that bridge when we got there. I told him what kind of marriage I wanted & that I would settle for nothing less. You know, if he don't want to give me that, why not just say so? So the day ended pretty good.

And I'm just building a life for myself, expecting it to be without him. We were talking about something K's wife & I talked about this weekend, about how we had spoiled our husbands. He informed me he wasn't spoiled because I never let him do anything he wanted to do. Now, mind you, during deer season & some fishing seasons, I don't see him except at night during the week & then he's too tired to have anything to do with me. I have never complained much, a few times got mad because I wanted some of his time. All our friends have told me I have been really good & let him do more than the wives we hang out with. He doesn't see that. The FOG, I know. Still hurts.

I don't talk to his mother that much, but when I hurt as much as I did the other day, I had no one else to turn to. I needed a calm voice in my storm of tears.

That's why I think exposure hasn't helped me that much. The A continues. He thinks that because he isn't seeing her, it's over & it's ok. It's not ok. He tells me he's with me. But it's not by choice & I am fully aware of that. Her friends & family know about the A. Her parents love him. Her best friend that still works with WH tells him OW is none of his business when he asks her about her. She wants it ended between them also.

Right now, I'm hanging in there. I just don't know how much longer I can live this way. I know it won't happen, but it sure would be easier if he wasn't living there. I guess I'll have to sell the house first before anything moves one way or the other.

I've told him before, when he brought it up, that it's ok to let me go, if that's what he wants. He gets mad when I say it, so I don't anymore. I just ignore him. Friday, I told him I love him, that's why I would agree to this plan so I could live with this between us. His answer "I know you do, & I'm sure I probably love you."

I think I'm having another bad day. I've felt teary all day long.

Wow......I have to admit, there are alot stronger and more patient folk in MB than I am. There is NO WAY I would tolerate being treated as a nobody and a doormat, while my spouse treated the OP with much respect.

I would leave........sorry. It just makes my skin crawl to read how lost is treated. Her husband is an [censored].

Uhhhhh......I have to go.

Hang in there and God Bless.

WHAT????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Why on earth would you agree to this????

What could you do besides agree .... LOTS of things!! How about saying "No, that's not good enough for me. I want to be the happy couple in public AND at home. I believe there is a way to do that and I'm willing to do whatever it takes for us to build a really wonderful M. I won't participate in a marriage that is less than that."
or
"I DO care who you spend time with, and no, I cannot live with your friendship with her. It slices me to my core everytime you continue to have contact with her. I do not want to be part of a marriage with three people in it."



Lost, why did you think you had to agree to this? Rolling over for him is not going to help you create a good marriage, the kind of marriage that you want. This is a good way to make sure the M ends, or that you are both stuck and miserable.


Have you finished reading SAA? Maybe it's time to read "Love must be tough" by Dr. Dobson. You can't just agree to letting him walk all over you. That won't help you heal, it won't help "keep" him .... it will just buy you more of the same treatment and total lack of respect that he's been dishing out.



Some of this is just babble and justification. Actually, most of it is. But you don't usually get anywhere when trying to argue with justifications. This is one that you could have let him "win" and actually gotten a point in yourself .... "You're right, I have done that. Since it bothers you, I will stop because I think it's more important to protect our M and build a trusting, loving relationship with you than for me to be cordial to ex's." (Something like that, there are lots of people here who are so much better at the wording than I am ... something more succinct would be great). A response like that shows that you are willing to do the same exact thing you're asking him to do -- cut off contact with people who might threaten the M. And you're not sitting there justifying and making excuses and proclaiming that your situation is "different" .... that's what HE does. The WS justifies and comes up with reasons that hurtful behaviors are acceptable. You don't.



We've got to figure out a way to get some hope into you, because it's your job to deliver a message of hope to him right now. "We CAN have a fantastic M, we CAN re-build and come up with something incredible, we DO have a great future ahead of us, there IS a way to do this, and I am willing to do my part. .... " THAT'S the message you need to deliver in Plan A .... I don't understand why you keep falling back on this "Just let me go" message.



My thought all along has been that you really need a great Plan A before you move to Plan B, but I'm starting to wonder if you are doing more damage than good -- to yourself and to your chances for a great M. Maybe you were just already so drained that it really was past time for you to just go to Plan B. I don't know, I am not good at figuring out that timing. But if you're really getting that far in the hole, then maybe it's time.

If you do go to Plan B, then the big thing is that you have to be the one calling the shots -- not pushing the decision off on him, not waiting for circumstances. You decide, you make it clear what the decision is.

Maybe you can find some creative ways to get there without having to wait on the house to sell. Maybe you can find a way to buy him out of his part of the house until you can sell it. I don't know. There are probably lots of options that will work if it's time for you to go to Plan B. I still think that you need to show him some great Plan A before you go there, but you're the one who has to make the decision about whether you can do it or not.


You need some input from the pro's on the timing stuff. I know a call to the Harley's is expensive, and understand your budget crunch right now, but I'd think they'd be the best at getting you some strategy and hope. Maybe you can call in to the radio show. That's free. Send an e-mail question, they'll probably ask you to call in, but you can give a lot more info in the e-mail than you can get out during the phone call.


I wish I had better advice for you, but I'm kind of at a loss right now. You're at a pretty tough point, and I don't know what the best strategy is. You need some serious help from the pro's.

-AmI.

la24y:


I understand why you would agree 2 this, because I did many things myself for a long time after d-day that were placating rather than problem-solving or relationship-building.

If you're going 2 agree 2 pretend 2 be happy, do it all the time, not just in public. Maybe it'll develop in2 something real.

If you're going 2 agree 2 go your separate ways, do it all the time, not just in private. And do it because it's what YOU want, not because you give a flying dogsh!t what he says he wants.


You could disagree. In fact, there's nothing else you could have done, with a clear conscience. Don't fight infidelity with infidelity. Don't drag someone else in2 this drama.


A week or so after my own d-day, I told my W that I had drafted a letter 2 RM in which I ac2ally THANKED him for being a friend 2 her when she needed one. Boy, was I fogged! It 2k a while for that 2 come up in conversation again, but a year or 2 later, she reminded me of that. I pointed out 2 her that I had done and said a lot of placating things 2 keep her around, because I was in such a state. I'm not in such a state anymore, and if there were another A, I'd politely end my marriage 2 her.

You're not in a position, emotionally, 2 do that right now. But you will get there. All the more reason 2 be constructive rather than self-destructive and placating in dealing with your WH. Stand firm on what you know 2 be right, and don't have conversations with him when he tries 2 leverage you in2 agreeing 2 something you know is wrong for you.


Yeah, it's way different, because he's having an affair with her. My daughter still is friends with an old boyfriend and his W - we even went 2 their wedding a few months ago. Before my DD got married, she completely disclosed her past 2 her fiance. They're all friends with one another. But the important point I am making here is that your H's A was a secret, sneaky, sordid, and disgusting thing behind your back and without your knowledge and consent. That's not the same thing as a relationship you had with an old boyfriend before you met your H.


Don't beg him 2 let you go. If you want 2 go, you go.


This isn't how it works. If you do this, you're fighting infidelity with infidelity. You're lowering yourself 2 his lack of moral fiber. No, the way this works is:

You make your best effort 2 save your marriage, if that's what you want 2 do.

If you decide you've tried your best and no longer want 2 save your marriage, you divorce.

Wait a year or 2 before dating. Give yourself time 2 heal.


What he (and you) needs 2 realize is that "down the road" you may not want 2 make the marriage work. he needs 2 realize that he needs 2 get on the stick now and make the right decisions sooner rather than later, because it is a very REAL POSSIBILITY that you will no longer be interested when he finally gets his [censored] 2gether.


This is good. At some point, you may realize that you like the building you're doing more than you like his drama. Right now you're 2 attached 2 him 2 see this. But when you do, he'd better be in a much less fogged position than he is now.

-ol' 2long