cut the ties...

drop the handle of the wagon you've been dragging him round with...

time for plan b...

why you ask..
why now you ask..

because YOU are falling deep in to your own BS fog..in which
YOUR WORDS
and
YOUR ACTIONS
are toxic to YOUR marriage...

how you say...

well becuase you are saying crazy confusing things to a WS...who is not very firmly based in reality..

who surrounds himself with only those that tell him what he wants to hear...

BS must speak clear concise no blurred lines on what the definition of marriage is...because WS love nothing more than to shift and move that definition around...


Friday, we talked & agreed to be the happy couple in public but go our separate ways in private. That way we could spend time with anyone we wanted & didn't have to answer to the other. Not a good plan A thing but what could I do besides agree?

I would suggest you disagree
remember that bony thing running down the middle of your back...you need to get reaquainted with ole thing...
and set a boundary for YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!


. I told him I would agree to this so that I could live with his friendship with her.

just to clarify this..you are agreeing to his continual friendship with the OW..just to have him in your life...

I'd beg him to let me go if I thought it would do any good & wouldn't be totally against my Plan A.

that's cute eh...against your plan A?
hee hee...

come on lost you are better than this..but you are getting more lost here than is safe...

I told him that if he or I found anyone else, we could then divorce.

yes dating and encouraging our spouses to seek and find other people while married and living together is always a good idea..

makes perfect sense to me..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


So where is the plan B letter you have written cause this pile of bull$%^$ is the death toll of your marriage...

basically YOU are throwing your beliefs out the window just to keep him home....

YOU are changing the definition of marriage to keep him at home...

YOU are begining to live lies like a WS just to keep him home....

plan B letters begin usually with..

Dear Husband...

this is the hardest letter I have ever had to write in my life....................................................etc etc etc...

times a wasting...
and the pen and paper are a calling...

and plan B includes cutting MIL out of the loop

let her pressure her son...not get info from you that keeps her from confronting him..
IF I KNEW my son was cheating on his wife..you'd think I wait for him to tell me himself....
ha

ha ha..

ARK

Thanks all for the 2X4's.

Yesterday, we were on the phone & he told me that he wanted to kill himself when he got home but the thought of his kids stopped him. I told him that would create more problems than it would solve.

I did tell him very firmly that I wanted a marriage where my husband loved me, wanted to spend time with me, wanted to be my best friend & treated me with respect. That I would not settle for anything less than that because I had not been such a terrible wife that I deserved anything less.

We talked about the OW. He feels he owes her something because her W/BH committed suicide. I reminded him that life is about choices & he didn't make that choice for her W/BH (btw her H was having an A on her at the same time this was going on, that's why the W/BH.) We didn't talk long but he did ask me why would he want to end a relationship with a beautiful woman for a relationship with a woman who is not beautiful. I told him I couldn't answer that. He asked why would he want to jump out of one relationship & into another. I told him he wouldn't, he was already in both relationships. That made him think some.

I sometimes feel I am falling into a deep pit from which there is no escape. When we went to bed last night, he told me he doesn't think he ever stopped loving me & I noticed that all night long he stayed right up against me. The last 2 mornings, he has reached to kiss me goodbye rather than me reaching for him.

The guilt he has is not about me, but about the suicide. He says he needs to talk to someone who doesn't know him personally. I told him I knew where he could find someone that he could talk to. I'm going to start another thread strictly about the question he's asked & see what response I get so I can show him he's not alone.

Yea, I'm placating. But I know that when I agree to these things, he thinks about them & the next day doesn't want to do what we agreed to because the thought of me dating (which, just to set everyone's mind at ease, I won't do until I am divorced, if it comes to that) is something he can't live with. I know he's not seeing her but checking with her by phone. For some reason, when I agree to that stuff, it rolls around in his mind & he realizes he may lose me, & he doesn't want that. But, truth is, he doesn't want her & knows he doesn't want her. He just feels responsible because of the suicide. Dumb, I know. He also told me he stays because I'm his wife, that he should feel things for me, that he owes me alot for the years we've been married, that he wants to know that he loves me. He feels he is the only person to ever be that screwed up in the head. I did tell him that getting your mind straight is not something that just happens overnight. That you don't just go to bed & wake up the next morning & everything is back the way it should be. It's something you have to work on & figure out by talking to someone with a level head themselves.

Who knows? Today's another day. Everyone tells me that I'll know when I've had enough. Sometimes when I think I've reached that point, something happens & I decide I can stick it out a little longer. It took my Step-MIL 2 years before she'd had enough of my FIL & kicked him out for good. It's only been 11 months for me.

Keep the 2X4s coming. I need them.

They aren't just 2x4's, lost.

They are talking about strategy and specific actions and plans. And I think you should listen to them -- ark and 2long have both been here a long time and know what they are talking about.


You need a plan, and you need to follow it, even when the emotions are running high. The "placate and give in to his manipulation and then manipulate him back by trying to make him leave or make him think about you dating other people" plan is not an MB plan and appears to be doing an incredible amount of damage to you and your M.

So stop it.

If the only way you can stop it is Plan B, then let's figure out how to get you into Plan B.

It's not going to help you or your H or your M to just say "Who knows, today's another day...." and then come back and recount the next round of crazy-making conversations and mixed messages. It's time to get the concepts, take some control and follow a good plan.


So don't just sit back and wait to see what happens next.

Figure out what you are going to DO, what action are you going to take right now? Pick a plan and make a list of what you are going to do to follow it. Plan B? Then post your Plan B letter and start throwing out some strategies for how to get one or the other of you out of the house. Plan A, then start talking about specifically how you are going to follow it.

People here can and will help you with those specific kinds of actual strategies and plans.


If you want to keep following Plan "manipulate, control and justify with each other and then get upset and confused when it doesn't work" .... I don't think you will get a lot of help with that.


-AmI.

Ami is correct..

look at just this one sentence..break it down..

Yea, I'm placating. But I know that when I agree to these things, he thinks about them & the next day doesn't want to do what we agreed to because the thought of me dating (which, just to set everyone's mind at ease, I won't do until I am divorced, if it comes to that) is something he can't live with.


OK so there's a ridiculous pattern identified by you in which YOU play a major role in....

a pattern of pathetic communication
a pattern of game playing where you husband says cruel ridiculous things...

and you agree with him since the PATTERN is the next day he just changes his mind...

do you want to live the rest of your life....
playing a role in immature behavior like that...

is that a good plan....

he spews crap
you placate
he takes it back...
then the next day

he spews crap
you placate
he takes it back
then the next day....

and so and so on and so on

stop engaging in ANY relationship talk...

today it's good news
tomorrow it's bad news
next day good news..
next day bad news..

loves you today
not so much tomorrow
loves you the next day
not so much the day after that..

and so and so on and so on and so on

ugggh

aren't you TIRED of this yet...

This would have sealed it for me:


I'd tell him to take a hike. That he is RELEASED FROM THE BURDEN OF BEING WITH ME. He is free to pack his belongings and get out of my house -- immediately.

I would send him a letter (plan B) that he is not to set foot in my house, he is not to call me, email me or communicate with me in any way (unless the kids are bleeding...) and he is free to go be "happy" with OW.

Im trying to figure out who he was calling beautiful.....his wife or the OW.....It isnt very clear to me.

If he is saying the OW is beautiful......that would be the deal breaker for sure and I would leave.

If he is calling his wife beautiful and is confused to why he cant leave the OW whom isnt beautiful......******, I would still leave!!!!

His wife is the beauty, and OW is the beast.

I'm a firm believer in the notion that we make our own choices, nobody makes them for us. That means: If we have an affair, it's because we made a conscious decision 2 break our promises, not because someone pushed us in2 boinking someone else's spouse.

I'm also a firm believer in taking responsibility for the influences we can have by interfering with other peoples' lives, because not everyone learns the lesson above, that they make their own choices for themselves. What this means 2 me, is that we should think before we say or do anything 2 someone else, lest they misinterpret our actions or words and act without thinking or learning how 2 respond 2 their own benefit rather than detriment.

Your H did not murder the OW's H, but I firmly believe that he is responsible for giving him an excuse 2 commit suicide. Worse, your H is using his death as justification for continuing 2 have an affair with his widow and cheating on you.

Sick.

-ol' 2long

Yeah, I see a pattern here. But I keep telling myself it's fog babble, he doesn't mean it. Because that's what most everyone here says it is. I guess that's why I placate so much, because I think it's not my DH talking but my WH who is in the fog still.

PrincessMeggy, I've read your story & it sounds a lot like me except my WH hasn't ever really moved out. Just left for a while.

Here's a part of my life story.

I am a preacher's daughter. I was ridiculed in school to the nth degree. By the time I met my STBH, I was a basket case with no self esteem & couldn't imagine any man wanting someone like me. If you tell someone something long enough, they start to believe it. My parents never knew until several years after I married what had gone on at school. I thought I was the ugliest, most useless person on earth. One of my turning points came when the guy in my class who had been the most hateful to me committed suicide. I saw then that they were the ones with the problem, not me. I left home & married my H in August before my senior year of high school. By graduation day, I was 4 mths preggers with DD#1. No regrets about that. My H helped me see that I was a good person. To this day he still carries something of a grudge against the ones who treated me so horribly. I've gotten over it & he says nothing to them, but when he sees them he will tell me he dislikes them for hurting me the way they did. We've been through to oilfield busts & one year he got laid off on Christmas Eve. But we've held on to each other until this.

He admits he doesn't know what truth is anymore. This on the occasions when the fog lifts a little. In the last week or so, I pray that he is really trying. I won't fully believe until NC happens. But he has been more affectionate than he has been in about a year. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to fall.

I've seen others who seem to be in a similar sitch stick it out & end up in recovery. Some of them never get to Plan B. I hope I don't have to go that far. But for now, with finances as they are, I have to stay. Staying in the camper with him in the house don't work because we tried it.

Seeing the ones in recovery gives me some hope that I will be there eventually also. I know my WH has tried blame himself for things that happened when he was a boy that he had no control over. He feels he should have known & done something about it. I don't know why he's that way.