What did she "get"?

I don't see where she 'suffered' anything, personally. She started to have (what appears to me) consensual sex, then ended it before it concluded.

She probably does feel guilty for what happened. She's probably angry with him for it going that far too. But in the end, she didn't 'get' anything.

Now...I could be wrong. I might be a callous SOB.

But that's honestly how I see it. Now, there may be more information to the whole story. But based OFF THE INFORMATION WE HAVE...that's the conclusion I tend to draw.

I think she started down the path of a ONS type situation, and backed out during the event. I think she was being unfaithful to he H while she was about all of this. I think it was a deliberate choice up to the point where she changed her mind.

This is all my opinion. I'm not stating it as fact...I'm stating it as my conclusions (read, opinion or guess) based off what was told and my experience.

I'm wondering if there was not some free flowing alcohol earlier in the evening?

Honestly, with even her admitting that he may have believed it was consentual, there is a snowballs chance of even finding a prosecutor willing to try it.

Guess the only recommendation I have is that yes, the OM's BW should be told. This guy is a predator and has probably done this crap before.

Who
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I understood it that she was telling him no while he was kissing her and taking her shorts off...
i thought the same thing about the alcohol and keep forgetting to mention it.

I thought about this post and the responses all last night... I am really bothered by it...probably because i have been in a similar situations and blamed myself....and even now i feel blamed and judged by others for my own stupidity.

But, i have not come to any solid conclusions myself.
..other than EXACTLY what you said about the OM's wife should be told.
SHR deserves to know.

What did she "get"?

I don't see where she 'suffered' anything, personally. She started to have (what appears to me) consensual sex, then ended it before it concluded.
____________

what did she get?
raped....if what she says is true.
and according to her H she is an emotional wreck over it.

personally, i CAN buy that she is a wreck over the situation.
It happened to me (date rape....unreported) and has haunted me for years....i blocked it out for a while but it resurfaces now and then.

editing to add......
we are all making assumptions here, i know...i can't help but to wonder what has gone on w/ HBJ's W and the OM since this incident...do they still work together..how did he treat her after the incident and does that have something to do w/ her emotional trauma.

If it was rape. Which is kinda what everyone is debating here...whether it was consensual or not. No?

I can belive she's in a wreck about the whole situation too...but this situation is a lot more gray than most are...because of WHERE/WHEN she decided to draw the line and put an end to it...DURING the act, and not at any point before.

Was it rape, or consensual? I think the reason she'd be so upset is because even she doesn't know at this point.

Was it rape, or consensual? I think the reason she'd be so upset is because even she doesn't know at this point.

________________________

and i KNOW what that feels like....and it upsetting and confusing.
plus, she has the added issue of the infidelity to deal with.

I don't know if was rape or not and yes, that seems to be what we are debating....i don't have an answer.

but, it brings back some bad memories and confusion for me.

my 'date rape" happened before i was married..i was still a teen-ager and the guy was a new boyfriend...we had been together (no sex) a few times and i really think it was natural progression to him......the fact that i said NO but was THERE making out w/ him and enjoying THAT was all he needed to assume i really wanted more.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
it is confusing!

PMFJI, but...

I've been on this board for about 2 years now, and if there is one general trend concerning WWs, it's that they never seem to take full responsibility for their actions, at least not while they are WWs. To them, the A "just happened". I guess that's supposed to be some sort of excuse to explain their behaviour, an explanation to show that they weren't really responsible for what they did, that it was all reaction, not action on their part. "Oh, I didn't really choose to get involved in an A, so I'm not really a bad person.."

I see a lot of that WW-type mentality in this W's explanation of events. It just happened that she let him into her bedroom and he kissed her. It just happened that he managed to get her clothes off and have sex with her.

Yeah, right.

And of course, once the sex was well underway, she makes a protest - my guess is so as to be able to say afterwards that she said no, thereby giving strength to her "just happened - it was not something she was looking for" explanation. Whether she actually wanted the OM to stop is another matter.

In fact, I think we can already deduce the most likely answer to that from her actions immediately preceding the act of sexual intercourse - SHE LET A MAN WHO PREVIOUSLY MADE A MOVE ON HER INTO HER ROOM.

But then again, maybe I just have the gain on my BS detection meter turned up too high today...

Whatever actually happened, I support the call for telling the OMW about the incident.

I think in this situation. She and her H may both choose to believe that she was raped. And I will not disagree with the possibility that in some sense, this creep did rape her.

Do I think that if she did decide to press charges against the guy it would stick, no I don't.

Letting this creep into her room does not make her deserving of rape. However, IMHO, it does make her absolutely guilty of having a wayward mind. I don't believe that any person who wasn't even entertaining some serious thoughts about infidelity would let someone into their hotel room, especially someone who had already made it clear they were "interested" in being more than coworkers. At best her judgment is faulty.

So they should tell the OM's BW, let her decide what needs to be done in her marriage. And they, should get some counseling....this gal needs help in establishing some better boundaries for herself.

Who

Do I think that if she did decide to press charges against the guy it would stick, no I don't.
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no, i don't either.
but, do they report him to HR?

i would need more info to decide that one. I agree w/ you that the W had a wayward mind even if she didn't intend to have sex w/ the man...and I blieve that quite possible...because i have been in that position also.

the fact that many posters here do not seem to understand that it is possible for a woman to be in a wayward mind set but NOT intend to have sex scares me. There must be a lot of disconnect out there.
why do men think that they have the green light before she says GO?

I believe her. I did not have a wayward mind when, as a new college graduate, I found myself in the room of a married manager, and he was kissing me as foreplay to sex. I was in shock. Like her, I froze. It took a tremendous amount of effort to get myself out of that room.

Why did I go into that room in the first place? I didn't know him, but my brother knew him from college. And he was married. It didn't even occur to me what he wanted.

This woman knew this guy. I bet she just didn't believe that his coming on to her, earlier in the day, was his coming on to her. Or, she may have let him in the room because she needed to get straight with him what had happened. The hotel room sex was probably some sort of surreal chain of events which she saw almost as a passive witness.

Whether she is lying or not, her husband's approach to believe her will help her to admit to it if she is lying, but what she is saying sounds credible to me.

Cherishing

I've had a lot of conversations with my FWW about her A. It's pretty clear to me that the "wayward mindset" in her case involved a thought process along the lines of "I will not actively seek out involvement with the OM, but if he does I will allow it, perhaps after a slight protest, because that would mean that the decision to cheat was initiated by him, not me."

It's pretty clear to me that the "wayward mindset" in her case involved a thought process along the lines of "I will not actively seek out involvement with the OM, but if he does I will allow it, perhaps after a slight protest, because that would mean that the decision to cheat was initiated by him, not me."
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OH, I believe you.
i am not saying this never happens....or maybe even happens often...i know a few WWs and the justifications they make amaze me.
but....it's not ALWAYS the case...i swear. I have been in the wayward mindset to some degree...but NEVER EVER intended or wanted to have sex w/ OM....i let my guard down....i flirted and gave the wrong impression.....i had poor boundaries but FOR ME the idea of sex was never even a possiblity.

it's still a wayward mindset and some level of infidelity, i think...but, i swear i wasn't to the point where i would have considered sex w/ the man.

SO, uummm, HBJ, ARE you going to tell Joe's wife??

And HR???

Either way the wife and HR should be told. (consensual or rape)

IMHO

kirk

IMHO, there is a big difference between a single, naïve grad student and a married woman. Even before my FWH had his A, when I completely believed it was impossible that he could or would ever have one, I still would have seen him either letting a woman into his hotel room or going to some woman's room as a clearly inappropriate act. Whether they had sex or not.

If married people would stop acting like they were single, none of us would be here.



FWIW, kissing and touching is clearly coming on in nearly anyones point of view. What did she think he was coming to her room for?

Waywards, especially those recently discovered, make lots of excuses, heck, they make excuses to themselves that allow them to have the affair. To me, part of this sounds just like another excuse.

Who

I agree 100%.........

Who are you folks talking 2?

-ol' 2long

Why me, of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, I read this entire thread yesterday with a great deal of interest, and a slight irritation.

I have been thinking on it every since, but my reasons are of a motherly one. It really brought home to me that I need to find some creative ways to teach my daughter personal responisibility. It is very difficult for me to understand how a grown woman can be so naive as to allow herself to be in this position and then completely shirk all responsibility for it.

It's good food for thought for mothers and fathers, in my opinion. Even boys need to be taught how to avoid and/or take responsibility for encounters of the unwanted SF kind in hotel rooms accross the country, and dorm rooms, and back seats of cars, and at the beach, and behind the bleachers...well heck, lets throw in under the desks, too.

Hi weaver!

You must be back from somewhere?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What I meant by my post is that the original poster appears 2 have left the building.

I don't disagree that this topic needs 2 be addressed. Just that the original poster has probably gone somewhere else for advice.

-ol' 2long

I need to find some creative ways to teach my daughter personal responisibility. It is very difficult for me to understand how a grown woman can be so naive as to allow herself to be in this position and then completely shirk all responsibility for it.

It's good food for thought for mothers and fathers, in my opinion. Even boys need to be taught how to avoid and/or take responsibility for encounters of the unwanted SF kind in hotel rooms accross the country, and dorm rooms, and back seats of cars, and at the beach, and behind the bleachers...well heck, lets throw in under the desks, too.

____________

I have thought the same thing...I have 2 teen-agers...a boy and a girl.
and i have been a naive woman...i hope it's not hereditary.

I do worry about the shucking of responsibility and blaming others....I see that as a big problem.

There is something that continues to bother me about the responses on this thread......I have been w/ guys who won't take no for an answer......who proceed when the light is yellow and even red.......what is so difficult about asking a woman if they are ready to have sex and accepting no if that is what she says??

I can't imagine why. I thought he was getting some dang good kernels to gnaw on. And I'm not being sarcastic there.

I did just get back from somewhere, and it was awesome.

I have enough ghost stories to tell at the campfire for every Friday night here to eternity. So look for this Fridays installment after the sun goes down. Can't tell ghost stories on a weekday afternoon, yanno. SS is going to love them.