If a guy doesnt take no for an answer.........he is a bad guy. Maybe you should try and hang around men with a little better character........no offense.

If you don't want to have SF, then don't put yourself in a sexual position with someone. That is what chaperones are for.

~no~ used up front works a lot better than ~no
~ after the fact.

Grown adults are completely capable of discussing how far they are prepared to go sexually before they get into heavy petting.

An adult who has sex with a young person not of the age of consent is a rapist, even if the young person consents. They are not mentally or emotionally developed enough to give consent of so serious a nature. I am adding this only because I have been trying in my mind to quality date rape, and what would constitute such. Any sex with a minor is rape. That is as far as I have gotten and has no bearing on this posters sitch.

and believe me I was the queen of not knowing how to say no as a young teen. Girls have the misquided notion that being a good girl means being nice, to nice to come right out and tell someone they are not interested is not nice by any stretch. And the same for boys, who get the same crap as girls do as far as unwanted advances.

If you don't want to have SF, then don't put yourself in a sexual position with someone. That is what chaperones are for.
________

This just doesn't sit well w/ me.
and that is what i am talking about...men...boys/men shouldn't have to have a chaperone to accept no.
we just keep making excuses for them.

why do girls/women need a chaperone for protection from a guy they are dating?

you think any girl/woman who kisses a guy puts herself in a sexual position?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

If a guy doesnt take no for an answer.........he is a bad guy. Maybe you should try and hang around men with a little better character........no offense.
___________

no offense taken...at this point I am not hangin around any men at all......except my H and my son.......what i meant was that i think need to teach our young men to have better character...not make excuses for them.

I have always known what "no" means. And it wasn't hard 2 stop, because SF has never been "just sex" for me, though my W made that allegation many times after d-day (and before, 2, now that I think about it).

I attribute that 2 her fog, though it might also indicate that she was date raped by RM the first time they had "drunken sex" 2gether 17 years ago, but she didn't do anything about it then because they were "friends".

But I may never know.

-ol' 2long

Nia-

I don't think anyone is condoning bad behavior. I'm the proud dad of three boys and one girl. All of them understand what "no" means quite well.

I would agree that anyone who keeps going after "no" is WRONG.

But, I would also say that the other person has to say "no" VERY VERY CLEARLY. Don't make it 'grey'. Don't make them GUESS at what you want.

I have to say, your posts are starting to sound more and more defensive. You seem to be taking comments by people in their worst possible light.

I highly doubt that anyone says that a girl who kisses a guy puts herself in a sexual situation. You're taking this to an extreme. Now...any girl who starts "making out" with a guy IS putting herself into a sexual situation. If the kissing is getting passionate, if its done in a setting that could condone things going further (like a bedroom/motel room/etc...), then YES, she's setting the stage for it going that way. JUST AS A MAN WOULD BE DOING THE SAME IF HE CONDUCTED THE SAME ACT IN THE SAME KIND OF ENVIRONMENT.

Boundaries are boundaries.

Can you see what I mean about how you're responding?

I have always known what "no" means. And it wasn't hard 2 stop, because SF has never been "just sex" for me,
_____________

That is perfect
and that is what I hope to teach my son......Most men i know did not learn this and still had the idea that you took sex whenever you could...from whoever would let you....and sometimes you pushed it.

i know there are girls out there who push it too....all the more reason we need to young men that sex isn't "just sex' and something you take whenever it's offered....and especially when it isn't even clear if it's being offered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

2long,

I 2tally agree.

Talk about threadjacks, we have mul2ple TJs here.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I believe in chaperones for teens,

and for adults, adult communication.

If you made it clear to the guy you were only ready to go to first base before the necking session, then a lot of confusion and mixed signals could be avoided.

nia, if a guy proceeds to have sex with you after you told him you didn't want to, well then it would be rape. However girls need to hold themselves accountable for being in a sexual situation when they don't want to have SF, giving false signals as well.

It's been my experience that most guys won't cross boundaries, if they know what those boudaries are. They are probably even thankful for them, until you are both ready.

I have to say, your posts are starting to sound more and more defensive. You seem to be taking comments by people in their worst possible light.

I highly doubt that anyone says that a girl who kisses a guy puts herself in a sexual situation. You're taking this to an extreme. Now...any girl who starts "making out" with a guy IS putting herself into a sexual situation. If the kissing is getting passionate, if its done in a setting that could condone things going further (like a bedroom/motel room/etc...), then YES, she's setting the stage for it going that way. JUST AS A MAN WOULD BE DOING THE SAME IF HE CONDUCTED THE SAME ACT IN THE SAME KIND OF ENVIRONMENT.

Boundaries are boundaries.

Can you see what I mean about how you're responding?

_________________________

i think I understand what you are saying and i am sure I sound defensive...I am feeling that way.
that part in your post about a girl making out w/ a guy is setting the stage.....well, that's the case she deserves what she gets to me.

sorry but I do not feel as though I deserved to have happen to me what happed to me just because I was making out w/ a guy who i had dated several times before.....I still had the right to say no and he should have listened to me.

No will always mean no, no matter what stage has been set.

If Scarlett Johannsen rips her clothes off and throws herself at me, but then changes her mind and says "no", I have 2 respect that decision...

...truthfully, though my hormones would be all a'flutter if such a thing were ever 2 happen, I'd be the one 2 say "no".

...and then go cry in2 a picher of beer afterward! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Hey 2Long, You're not holding your breath for this to happen are you??? "Snort" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This thing you got for Scarlette needs to stop 2long. I swear everytime I see her in a movie, I think of you. She did a fine job in "A Love Song for Bobby Long", by the way.

GB has a thing for Meg Ryan. You'll never catch me asking him what he would do in the sitch you described, though. I am content to believe he would very politely ask her to please put her clothes back on as she is grossing him out. LOL

TJ over and out.

Not ac2ally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ac2ally, I've NEVER had anything even remotely approaching one of those kinds of fantasies ever happen 2 me in my entire life! And I'm almost dead!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

When you said no...he should have stopped. Period, end of discussion. No two ways about it.

No point in debating this further. At the end of the day...we don't know the REAL story in the original poster's case, and he's likely left.

Owl,



I think so too. And I feel a little bad. I suspect that he had a little BS FOG going on and so many pointing out the holes in his wifes story probably cleared that away and left him facing what he probably already suspected.

Maybe he'll return once his wife comes clean with him.

Who

When you said no...he should have stopped. Period, end of discussion. No two ways about it.

No point in debating this further. At the end of the day...we don't know the REAL story in the original poster's case, and he's likely left.
____________________

You are right....I have completely gotten off the orig. posters situation and was thinking of my own. sorry for that.
HBJ hasn't checked back in.

like Weaver I have been reading this thread w/ much interest as i have a some questions about the topic of date rape and myself and my children.

i can accept responsibility for my poor boundaries....and even for the fact that i may have sent the wrong message.. to a point....
I realize after reading some of the responses here that I was (is) naive to believe that a guy should understand the words NO and STOP even if we are making out (and we were fully clothed.)

BUT......i will not accept responsibility for the guy i dating when i was 20 holding my arms down w/ his knees while he unzipped my jeans....touched me and then proceeded to unzip his own jeans and pull out his penis and ejaculate all over me....all the while i was saying NO and STOP.

no,there wasn't intercourse and I WAS making out w/ him.......maybe even considering the possibility of having sex w/ him in the future....but not that night.
And for that reason I never even considered it rape...but now that I rethink (and have a daughter) it was not right.

so, for all you guys out there who think that the woman wants sex just because she lets you into her room or allows you some liberties...listen to her when she says NO and STOP......
and...
if you didn't have respect for her in the first place....but, thought you might get some sex anyway....you shouldn't have gone to her room.
I think men need to take some responsiblity for their actions too.

Now...any girl who starts "making out" with a guy IS putting herself into a sexual situation. If the kissing is getting passionate, if its done in a setting that could condone things going further (like a bedroom/motel room/etc...), then YES, she's setting the stage for it going that way.
_________________________

OWL,

Maybe i don't understand... but,
I don't agree w/ you on this and in fact it scares me that you and others seem to think making out and getting passionate condones sex.

It very well MIGHT condone it to you...but, to me...going out a few times and getting increasingly passionate is the way a relationship will naturally proceed.......but, it does NOT automatically mean she wants sex.....especially if she says no or stop...and I THINK men need to be VERY clear about that before they proceed or assume she wants sex.

THEY need to make that their responsibility.

I feel you may be missing the point a bit Nia.......too many women assume a guy has good intentions......and most do, but there are many preditors out there and women need to be aware of that. The way you are typing leads me to believe you think ALL men are the type to ignore no. Myself as an example.....I wont even WANT to sleep with a woman (wife of course) if she didnt want to have intercourse with me as well. That is a big turn off for me.

oo many women assume a guy has good intentions......and most do, but there are many preditors out there and women need to be aware of that. The way you are typing leads me to believe you think ALL men are the type to ignore no. Myself as an example.....I wont even WANT to sleep with a woman (wife of course) if she didnt want to have intercourse with me as well. That is a big turn off for me.
___________________________________

something about this posts sounds like a contradiction to me.

first you say that many women assume a guy has good intentions....then you say that many men ARE predators....and then you say that you think i believe that ALL may men are the type to ignore NO.
before you called me naive for assuming a guy does have good intentions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

and NO...i do not believe that all men are the type to ignore NO at all.....It just puzzles me that posters will put the responsibility on the girl/woman to not not get herself into a certain position because a man might not understand when she says stop or no....but not on the boy/man to understand that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />