LG,

Once again, good takes and recommendations. I swear as "god is my witness", I have tried to get her to communicate with me. The only two responses that I have gotten were a result of her thinking that "I was out of here".

Unpleasant experience at one of the local hospitals (nothing on my part as far as malpractice or patient abuse etc), more of a political re-arrangement of hospital staff. Had to get money to support the family. Wife wanted me to take a position for 12,500 less than what my previous salary waws when I departed my last job, but that would not have paid the bills.

I work approximately 1 hour and 15 minutes away and try to get home at least 2-3 times per week.

Thanks

Needless to say that it does not erase the fact that my relationship from start to date was based on obligation and lies.


I do not understand what you are saying


I was planning to go home this evening, but I not sure if that is best. If we managed to be civil (we are friends also), I know that she will feel compelled for an intimate encounter (gives her a feeling of power over me and makes her feel that I will be subserviant until I get horny again.

why not go home

why not stop and get a favorite dessert and go home
why not be kind

and why not NOT have sex...but be sweet and kind and loving...if the cycle is she uses sex as a weapon...
stop playing your part

actions speak loudest

why not just hold her

ark

Ark,

The last conversation we had she expounded the explanation "I was a slut in my 20's, felt like Ti-s and
p-ssy, meaning that our sexual relationship existed based on what she thought I would like. She apologized for bringing oral sex into our relationship. Then with the subsequent changes, No nighttime, after etoh, with the lights on etc. I dont know her anymore and she certainly IS NOT the same woman I married 14 years ago.

Our anneversary was 3 August. On that day, I returned home that date which was a friday. No intimate relations, I was PO'ed!

The weekend that we actually were able to go out, got a baby sitter, took her out for a nice dinner, had a respectable time. I created an atmosphere with candles, little nice fragrance etc.....NOTHING!!!!

LTK...

When I read your above quote along with your other posts, I wonder if your wife may feel like I used to before MB...

-I did NOT understand that men connected with women emotionally through sex...seriously, I did not...I thought it was simply just a physical thing for them...and that was my own fault due to putting myself out there to be used when I was younger...doing that robs women of the real meaning of the sexual relationship and they become hardened and resentful towards men...Even when Mr. W told me that that was how he connected to me, I did not believe him and merely thought it was a ploy to get what he wanted physically...MB changed my perspective completely...Reading here and finally understanding what God intended sex to be...a gift to be shared between a husband and a wife...

-I needed non sexual touching in the beginning of this attitude shift...I needed to see that Mr. W enjoyed just touching ME without it leading to sex...Truthfully though now touching usually does lead to sex, because WE want it...Because I understand that he loves me and that sex is one of the best ways for both of us to express that love...

-Specifically about your quote...this is an area where we still struggle a bit...although for me it is NOT about "power" or "subservience"...it's about ATTENTION...I do find Mr. W to be FAR more attentive when he is "in the mood"...and I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that attention...Now, I know better than to withhold sex-that helps neither one of us...What I have been doing is communicating to him that I need him to be attentive even after his desires have been sated...As I said, we are still working on this part...Mr. W tries and is WILLING to meet that need for me...He isn't perfect and I don't expect him to be, I'm obviously not perfect either, but it is that willingness that makes me know how deeply he loves me...I love and cherish him for that...

Mrs. W

WOW!!! Now thats what I am talking about. I communicated the same message to the Mrs almost word for word. Jury is still out on that one.

Thanks for the insight, I hope your H realizes how lucky he is!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W has given you a wonderful response already.

I'll add this - I think you should avoid placing your W in situations where she might feel obliged to have sex with you. That will cause even more resentment. Now, review the situation you created above - do you think it was one where she would desire to have sex with you, or one where she may start feeling obliged to have sex with you? Do you think you'd feel any better about SF if your W only did it because she thought she was obliged to do it with you?

LTK...

Gonna be blunt: NO WAY would that work for me...In fact, that is a HORRIBLE way to live for a married couple...Did you know that Dr. Harley says that you should never spend even a night away from your spouse? That really isn't gonna cut it...I know that that much driving to and from work would suck, but your marriage ending will suck more...Dr. Harley is adamant that your job is to serve your marriage and family and not the other way around...So you will either have to find a new job or do the drive daily if you want your marriage...You need to be spending at least 15 hours per week with your wife...that time is to be filled with recreational companionship, communication, affection and SF(sexual fulfillment)...That's the MB way and it works!

Also, as far as her being perturbed when you do come home...I might be able to explain that...I used to feel that way about Mr. W-he was constantly at work back then...In the beginning, I missed him and begged him to come home...When he didn't, I got used to a certain routine that did not include him...When he came home, that interupted my routine and yes, I was bugged by that, as wrong as that seems...Spending that much time away from each other left us both very vunerable to an affair...Sadly, I am the one that walked down that road-a horrible experience for both of us...And then we were blessed by finding MB...Things are very different now...So much better...We are happy...You can be too...

Time for some changes...

Mrs. W

LTK:

About this:

WOW!!! Now thats what I am talking about. I communicated the same message to the Mrs almost word for word. Jury is still out on that one.

You "Communicated" the same message?

WOW! That what we call a LoveBuster around here!

Your W may have no idea about what you are talking about when you try to "communicate" the info to her.

MrsW, had to slide into the clutches of an A, as did I, to understand what MrsW was describing in her post.

So, you can't "communicate" this info to her. You have to teach her.

You have to be the one who touchs her with out expectation of anything in return
You have to start bringing her into intimate conversations with you, where you LISTEN to her.
You have to reconnect all those things that are broken between you and her.
Are YOU calling her and talking to her on the way to work, on the way home during that 1.5 hour drive?

Because if you start building that bridge, she will eventually start building from the other side. She may only build 10%, but getting the bridge built is the goal.

LG

LTK,

I'd like to point out some things you have noted.

Specifically, that your wife suspected you of an affair - and that around the same time she lost respect for you.

Around the same time (shortly thereafter), she also changes her sexual activities with you.


You stated that you didn't have an affair - or rather, that her suspicions were not "validated". I'm not sure what that means exactly. To me, that might mean that there was another woman who was getting close to you, and you might have been thinking about it? This might have been an emotional connection on your part to another woman - is this possible? I'm asking, because this could have a bearing on her attitude toward you in the marital bed.

In MB land, having an affair is not exclusively a sexual encounter involving intercourse. It can also include emotional involvement with another person outside the marital relationship, petting, oral sex, or inappropriately close "friendships" with people of the opposite sex that cross the boundaries into feelings of attraction and possible exploration/thoughts of further relationships.

I'd like you to consider if this possibly describes a relationship you had with another woman, and therefore your wife may have begun to detach from you.

One thought I have had about your situation that I figured I might have you consider.


Also, regarding the sexual issues. Too often, the way one partner initiates might be too overt for the other partner. Sometimes, one person might like a slower warm-up. Think back to the days when you first met, and how you might have approached your wife when you were less familiar with her. Try slowing the pace a little.

I agree that there might be a sexual aversion issue with your wife. It's strange that it came on suddenly, though. I wonder if you might have noticed signs of it before that, and you haven't really pieced it together. Think back further.

Another thing that worries me is that you have somewhat rewritten your marital history. You state that your relationship from the start was based on obligation and lies. Not true. You are experiencing an error in memory, called a bias (consistency) error - don't do this. The feelings you have now are not the same feelings you have had throughout your entire marriage. Intellectually, you know that is not the case. If you approach her with this type of statement, it is only a lovebuster, and does not hold water.



Sex should never be an obligation for anyone. And regardless of who took who to dinner, lit candles, or did the hokey-pokey in the nude, she doesn't owe it to you. Or you to her. I think that some of the statements you have posted could be interpreted as sounding like you feel like she isn't holding up to her obligations; to me, sex isn't obigatory.

To me, sex should be a mutually enjoyable experience between the two of you. She should never feel like just because you touch her, you want sex. I used to feel that way, because so often it was the case. I felt pressured constantly, so that it became my expectation that if my husband was in the room, he expected sex. It might not have been his expectation of course, but the fact is that the way he stated things, his comments, his negative statements to me regarding frequency, made me feel like when he looked at me he was doing one of two things:

1. desiring sex
2. hating me because I was not giving him sex right then

Maybe she feels like when you come home, you expect sex. And she wants more than that in her relationship with you, and the cycle you two are in just makes things worse and worse - and she sees no way out.

That makes things tough, when she feels like she might just want to talk some, about her three days without you. About how the wind moves the leaves in the trees and it reminds her of the time you and she went camping....or how the stupid dog jumped in the mud and then in her car and how she spent Tuesday cleaning up the floor mats. Or maybe she just needs you to hold her, without KNOWING the only thing you want to do

is have sex

and that the only thing she wants to do

is not.

Just for right now.

Can you understand why she might just need the time, and not the sex?

I can understand why you want the sex. But you need to understand why she might not.

Between the two of you, one of you needs to be the one to stop the cycle, at least for a little while.

Long enough to hold the other one. Long enough to TALK and WORK this through. In this case, it looks like

that person is you.


I would start with getting an appointment with the Harleys.

SB

1 1/2 hours work-home is not too far to do every day. I did it for 15 years.

You need to be home with your wife if you want to maintain a romanitc intimate relationship with her. (MINIMUM 15 hours a week undivided attention)

you should find work closer to home as well.....

Thank you all so much for the attitude adjustment!! I really needed it.

Last pm was a god send. We talked, I touched her on her face, hair, neck arms. Told her that she was my "soul mate" and how much I really loved and cared for her.

This was the first time in a long time that I was able to have an emotional contact and closiness with my beloved.

A very positive, beneficial and enjoyable evening!

I put my 30 day notice in for the apartment and will start driving everyday on 21 October. My contract for this gig is up in December. But I agree with all of you about being home with the family.

Please take a moment and pat yourselves on the back and give yourselves a sincere "KUDOS".

I am not going overboard with this, I still plan on keeping my guard up. According to Michelle Langleys "Womens Infidelity" she could be responding to one of the phases of infedility.

As ARK has informed me though I am not going to the Affair issue. I am going to drop it and just take notes. Her body language remains suspect that something just isn't right.

Anyway thanks to you all!!

Which book do you think I should purchase from MB that will benefit me the most? I am and will continue to educate myself related to marital discord and the needs of the female specie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

How about "His Needs/Her Needs". I got a CD from here that was title "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" that was good.

Be sure to read the sections available on this site on Love Busters. A lot of people here say that learning about them alone made a huge difference in their marriage.

LTK:

Congratulations on the good night, but more importantly, that you are willing to take the advice and be with your family every night. Hopefully your situation will improve as you spend more time together.

Your wife sounds just like mine. She has developed a sexual aversion and doesn't even want to kiss or touch you as she doesn't want you to think that it's okay for you to have sex with her. I know how that is. All I can tell you (and mind you, my problems aren't solved yet) is that you are going to have to forget about sex for a while, slowly work on non-sexual intimacy for a while (at least 6 months), and build the same kind of conditions and closeness that led you to having sex frequently before. Also spending more time together, focusing on her ENs, avoiding LBs, and going to MC are all things that you can be doing in parallel.

Ok, so you read Langley. There is a thread here dealing with her stuff, you can find it easily. Langley took a very simple concept and blew it up to a profit center. Take what she says with a very large grain of salt.

I am curious.

How old are you, how old is your wife, how old are the kids and how long have you been marriedc? How long are you into the relationship including the time before you got married?

Maybe I missed the details; sorry. I will reserve comment until I know more.

Larry

Thanks Larry. Please give me the link to ML anaology on this site.

I am 49, wife is 44. We have been together 15 years, waited 9 years before decided to have children. Childrens ages are 6 & 5..

Looking forward to your response. Please if you haven't already review the initial post to find out my questions and concerns.

Thanks again for your time and consideration!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay LTK here you go.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

This is one of several threads that discuss Langley and her theories. You can find others by doing a search on her name in the search function on this forum. I was on her forum for over a year. She and I took expection to each other for various reasons and I quit posting over there. In my view, she is a very intelligent phony who delivers less than she promises on several fronts.

Here is the deal:

Women TEND to be more addictive to a chemical called phenylethylalamine (PEA) to a greater extent than males. This does NOT mean that males cannot also be addicted. PEA is an addictive chemical that basically results in an infatuation. This chemical causes intense feelings and is similar to meth in the way it acts in the brain. Some would not say that similarity but I stick to my statement.

PEA does not last. This is the basis of Langley's theories. In effect, it is a cycle; infatuation followed by the let down and then possibly going after the feelings with another male. Harlequin and similar genre cater to women's yearnings and are in effect porn for women. Notice that those books are all about the initial phases of a relationship and NOT about times later on when the PEA effect dissapear.

At 30 and again at 40, most folks undergo life evaluation. It can be that they find it wanting. 39 is a rough age - which corresponds with your wife's change five years ago.

Some women dress up in miniskirts and go chasing male equipment to validate that they are still attractive or whatever. Some women get religion, have affairs, buy a sports car and/or get a tattoo.

You are getting mixed signals from your wife. She is regressing to a virginity she lost in more ways than one many years ago. This could be a rejection of who she used to be. On the other hand, maybe she had an affair. Only she knows and frankly, anything is possible. In any event, she is not bonded to the nuclear family in terms of her rejection of you.

Something is clearly wrong. And you will probably not find it through conventional counseling. Most counselors are crap and do more harm than good. It would probably do you some good to talk to a marriage coach like the Harleys. A competent sex therapist might also find issues, but finding one of those is like looking for a camel that doesn't spit.

I haven't a clue what is going on in your wife's head and neither do any of the others posting here. All we can do is speculate and suggest ways you can find out. One thing is for sure, your work deal is causing stress in your relationship with your wife. This is normal and a byproduct of what you have chosen to do with your work life.

Larry

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions Larry. I feel somewhat simular to ML's book. I thought it was extremely dangerous.

Any additional thought will be apprecaiated. Again thanks for your time and consideration.

I suggest that you stop drinking, and ask her to do the same. It seems to me that her drinking is a big part of the problem.