My XWW established and maintained no contact for 21 days last January. OM and her work at the same company but different locations separated by about 70 miles. I was desperate for her to get a new job.

A meeting I did not know about was called at her office and included the OM. She came home that night and told me that they were very good and never spoke to each other. She was also foggy as he!! and clearly back to day one of withdrawal. We were back at square one.

She left home within a week and filed for divorce. My divorce was final in 4-1/2 months. She now has pictures of OM and OM's S2 proudly displayed in her new house.

I sure am glad to know that you are so unique and this can’t happen to you.

She has. The A was brief and she has no desire to see him. She sees him professionally but NEVER alone. And it has only happened twice in the year since the A.


I agree that I am the least experienced in the thread but closed minded and unobjective? I do not think so. I have contemplated this issue for a long time and decided that it is far more risky to my M to FORCE my W to quit the job she loves and has worked so hard for. And who is to say that our M would recover any differently then it is now? Plus, who is to say that she is so unhappy with my “ultimatum” that my M suffers irreversibly.


There are two different issues here. We had pretty much healed from the A. A few weeks ago my W was acting distant and it came out in therapy that she was unsure of her love for me. I was shocked and so I came here. Since that time we have been getting back to normal and her feelings for me are returning. Granted, they are not where they should be but they are better so my demeanor today is different than it was 2 weeks ago.


Why do you say that ML? Yes you have been here probably longer than anyone else and I’m sure you have heard the same stories over and over and over again but how can you say that EVERYONE’S marriage would not recover given that every relationship is different and probably a large percentage would not recover if the W sees the OM but she is not seeing him. That’s my point. She has no feelings for him. It was a brief EA on the phone because I was not there for her. I am now and she has no interest in him. I know this for a fact!!

She does not have contact other than what is absolutely necessary for her profession. An example of an email would be... “Hi, what time can I expect you at the XXXX on Friday night?” Then he would reply and she would say, “Ok thanks,” and then her signature. That’s about the extent of the contact. A few sentences. Her phone records show barely a handful of calls for less than two minutes each for the entire year. No texting. No private email addresses. No IM'ing. I have all the technology in place and have been checking every single day.



But it has to work both ways. I would prefer not contact at all. Let me repeat that. I would prefer no contact at all. Maybe I should SHOUT it out to you all. I have discussed it on numerous occasions with my W and it just cannot be. If we would continue to live where we are and my kids go to school where we live and my W works where she does (as do I), then the minor contact in a strictly professional manner continues. Do I like it? NOT AT ALL but it will do more damage to change it.

I know that what I am doing does not sit well with all of you. I am really sorry about that. I know you all mean well. I am at an impasse and I wish it was as cut-and-dried as you all make it seem.

You have all told me the there is to be no contact. That much is true. That much I believe. What I am missing here is HOW do you make that happen when the upheaval of one’s life could (and in my case, will) cause more damage that what has already happened?

AB

AlphaBeta...

Won't a continuing affair and a divorce be FAR more damaging? That IS where you are headed...No Joke...And I can tell you that you DO NOT know with certainty that she has no feelings for the OM-you just don't-not possible-I don't care how well you think you know your wife-we aren't talking about just your "wife", but your "wayward wife"...those are ENTIRELY different creatures...And my friend, I know this, sadly, from standing on the wayward side of the fence myself...

And AB, this is not some competition that we are trying to "win" with you...We just KNOW...Be it from our own lives or be it from our time here reading and posting...Seriously, it's the RULE, and not the exception...We see you about to cross the street with a mack truck speeding your way and we are desperately screaming and waving to HELP you...to SAVE you...

Honestly, my gut tells me that your wife's affair continues today...In your shoes, I'd put a GPS on and a voice activated digital recorder in her car [surely you've heard of the dreaded "affairullar phone"?] maybe even hire a PI...I think they have taken it deep underground...I sincerely hope that I am wrong...

No matter what though I KNOW beyond a doubt that I, and the others here are 100% RIGHT about NC being an absolute in order for recovery to take place...Please call the radio show and ask Dr. Harley yourself tomorrow...Will you do that AB?

Best,

Mrs. W

and AB - MrsW just triggered something in me.

NC for life only makes sense in the context that there ARE still feelingf for the OP by the FWS. Harley states it categorically in the section of HNHN that deals with affairs. Simply, your wife does have feelings for him, repressed though they might be. Any contact risks reigniting them.

VERY TRUE BK...AB, your wife will FOREVER remain vunerable to the OM...Just like an alcoholic forever remains vunerable to alcohol...There will ALWAYS be a low burning flame for him that could reignite at anytime...Sucks to hear that, I know...You can wish for that not to be true til the cows come home, but wishing will not make it any less true...

Please call Dr. Harley tomorrow...It's free...You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by calling and listening-click on the radio show link for the toll free number...Will you do this AB?

Mrs. W

Here's the info to call Dr. Harley AB...

Live Broadcast Monday-Friday
11:00am-1:00pm (Central Time)
Call-in 888-606-1776

Mrs. W

AB,
I'm going to be a little more harsh here, than the good folks that are her on this forum.

Your suppositions about yours W"s A are all Bullsh**.

Your wife choose to have an A with OM for a very simple reason, because she could.

Until you face that fact, you are nowhere near reconciliation.

In the mean time, you allow continued contact to exist, because your primary interest, is to preserve your comfortable lifestyle.

It is absolutely obvious, that your life means more to you than your M. Kids in the right school, going on to college, becoming successful, like you.

How rewarding is that when you have a WW willing to throw you under the bus, because she has a different plan?

You don't know me, but, I am the offensive one here. You have been advised by the best of best on this forum. And yet you throw that advise into the gutter, and arrogantly believe that you know better.

Your M is a piece of sh** right now, and unless you are willing to listen to wisdom, you are doomed. Your W is USING you right now, and has complete control over you, because of the financial status of your M.

I'm willing to bet, that you were not this way before your M, right?

NO contact, forever, for life, your choice, not mine!!!!!

All Blessings,
Jerry
What can I say to you?

AB, this will be my last post to you because I don't have time to waste on someone who won't help himself. But let me leave you with this thought. Adultery is absolutely the worst thing that can happen to someone. For many it is worse than rape or the death of a child. Leaving a job pales in comparison. People leave jobs and end contracts every day. To say that the "trauma" of leaving a job is worse than that of adultery, rape, the death of a child shows me that you are so committed to a path of denial that any words would be wasted.

Dr. Harley says that recovery is impossible as long contact continues. Your wife has never withdrawn. You have seen the proof of this in your own marriage yet you deny it.

Our words are wasted here, folks.

I only ask that you STOP misleading newcomers into believing that yours is an acceptable path. It is not. It is one thing for you to play chicken with your marriage, but please don't try and induce distraught newcomers out into the street with you.

We are selling our dream home, the home we dreamed about retiring in. Yep it's very traumatic. We built it ourselves, raised our kids there. we put so much detail into that house....phttt.. gone....why? cause it's way to close to XOW and SHE cannot be trusted.

And you know what, its just building materials and earth.
We are what is important and if there is the slightest chance she can slither up that driveway, I don't want to take it. So we are gone, several states away from her and it will remain so.

While you may trust your WW, you have no control over OM.

he is afraid of his wife....
afraid because he KNOWS her job is more important to her than their M...
afraid because he knows she would leave him in a heart beat
afraid because if he places this as a boundary issue, the house of cards he has built will come tumbling down.

read this mans posts from just a few short weeks ago...this is a woman that is most likely involved in an affair right now...and it is definitely a H that has no intention of standing up for his family.

[color:"red"]"We had pretty much healed from the A. A few weeks ago my W was acting distant and it came out in therapy that she was unsure of her love for me"[/color]

I quoted this in red because it jumps out to me as a huge red flag...

This is a sure sign of someone who is fence sitting. She is not sure of her feelings for you because she is still trying to figure out her feelings for OM and those feelings still exist because of the ongoing possibility of continued contact.

Don't take my word for it. Read TJ3's thread or ask Lifeschoice or Mrs W what happens when contact continues and withdrawal never takes place. Go to RLT's thread and read about continued contact and what it means and does to the BS when it comes out what is really going on.

Imagine an alcoholic who says, "I'm just going to have one drink on Fridays." Soon it is, "I'll only have one drink per day." That ends up being "I'll only drink when I have nothing more important to do" and that ends up "I'll only drink when I have time." Soon it is "I'll only drink when I can get it." The bottom line becomes "I've got to have it."

I'm not trying to scare you into being convinced just so I can prove you wrong. I don't even want to be right. My analogy is not far from what happens to someone involved in an affair.

It is also a red flag to me because if she has really ended her A in her own mind, she should begin to experience her feelings for you all over again, not be unsure of those feelings. It might mean that you are still missing something important to her in the way of meeting her ENs or are doing something consistently that she considers to be a love buster.

But the most likely scenario is that she is still harboring feelings for OM and is "trying to work through them" on her own. The problem is that if that is the case, she cannot think logically enough about it "on her own" to make rational choices. She is, in effect, still in the fog and will be until she can completely withdraw her emotional state from anything to do with OM.

Additional signs that this is the case might include conversations where blame for her having OM get shifted to you in any way. If it is still your fault that she had an affair, she still doesn't understand what happened or why.

You can continue doing it all your way if you want to. You might even be in that something less than 1% for whom NC is not required. You marriage might have been so wonderful before the A that your wife will never even question as to whether or not she has the best...

Of course I would ask, if that were true, why did she have an affair?

Mark

Forgive me for having the audacity to have a differing opinion in this one isolated instance from the all great and knowing ML.

One thing I've noticed is that this board has an "ignore" feature, and if I'm going to spend any time here going forward, which admittedly is worth less and less each day BECAUSE of the condescending arrogance of people like ML and the other disciples, I think simply "ignoring" these toxic personalities is in my BEST interests.

While I agree overwhelmingly with the MB principles I've seen, read and experienced ... I just don't buy into all of the ALWAYS, NEVER, IMPOSSIBLE, hyperbole that is spouted by the disciples. The real world may work for these principles in an overwhelming percentage of the cases, BUT NOT FOR EVERYONE or every situation. It is simply FOOLISH to believe so, so as in most situations, I will ignore the EXTREMISTS and interact with the reasonable moderates.

Your advice to AB may prove to be spot on, but when you place yourself as the absolute authority with NO CHANCE of being wrong, then you lose all of your credibility with me, and likely many others.

As I tried to say to you before ...

Good Day to you.

No credentials?

p.s. it is not my advice that I am promoting here because I realize I am *NOT* an authority on the subject. The authority on the subject is DR HARLEY, which is why I consistently quote HIS OPINION, NOT MINE. HE is the expert, not me.

Now, I would like to see YOUR credentials that lead you to believe you are qualified to REFUTE Dr. Harley when he says that recovery is impossible under these conditions.

Myrev...you are truly an ***.

Edited by MEDC (thereby saving Justuss the trouble)

MyRev,

I think the big issue here isn't really about opinions or inflexibility. I don't know of a singe BS who would not prefer NC forever. Some have chosen to settle for less because they lack the strength or courage to enforce it as a boundary.

I didn't find MB until 15 months past D-day, but on my d-day, I told FWH that there could be NC of any type with OW ever again. I knew instinctually that I would not be able to stay with him otherwise.

AlphaBeta knows he is in the middle of a mine field in this. He wants to believe that things will ultimately be OK for he and his marriage if he accepts things the way they are. But he knows better and either he will find a way to enforce this boundary with his WW, or he will continue to allow his wife to sit on the fence.
.

I think it was Bob Pure who once asked the question "What would you do if you weren't afraid? So A/B, what WOULD you do if you weren't afraid?

Who

Sorry AB but i agree with all the others. It does not matter about jobs or schools or anything except your M if that is what you want. I feel NC is one of the most important things for me to continue in my M. I made my FWH leave because he did not agree with me on the NC thing. I know it can happen any time, any place, with anyone. But i am not going to chance it being with that one. I think that is really what you want too but are afraid of the consequences.

OK- I'll jump into the fray here.

By allowing contact of *any* kind - you are playing Russian Roulette with your marriage. A marriage that, by your own admission, is not exactly solid with a Wife who is not 100% committed and unsure of herself and her feelings for you. There is no "grey" area here. This does not apply to "some" people but not "all" people. It. applies. to. everyone.


In Mrs./Mr. Wondering's respective posts, they talk about how NC cannot be allowed, EVER. So, if a FWW like Mrs. Wondering, who clearly IS commiteed and invested deeply in her M ( or she would NOT be here ) realizes that it would be dangerous for HER, excatly how dangerous do you think it would be for YOUR wife?

No one is trying to "prove superiority" here. The folks who have been branded by zealots by folks who, quite frankly, would do better to pay closer attention to their own recovery are trying to *help* you. It is no accident, A/B - that the consensus on this thread is overwhelming in favor of NC of any kind ever. Why is that? Because these folks have been here long enough to see what happens over and over. Ive only been here myself for 9 months and Ive seen the very thing you are trying to avoid dozens of times when NC is broken.

It is your decision. You need to do what you think is best. In a couple of months, when you are posting on a very different kind of thread - these same folks will be here to help you

Everyone here is trying to tell you the same thing:

Your marriage CAN survive the upheaval of your lives.

Your marriage CAN survive your wife's anger (though you refuse to believe this and are terrified of her anger.)

Your marriage CANNOT survive your wife dating and screwing other men (though you seem to think that somehow it can cuz then she won't be mad at you.)

This appeasement policy you're following WILL destroy your marriage.

There are many, many stories here of men who have tried just what you're doing. They are now divorced and watching other men raise their children. Have you read brokendreams's story? It's right here on the first page of this forum.

His story is exactly where you are headed if you do not stop fearing your wife's anger.
Mulan

AB, I wish you well.

As I stated before, a single contact at their work between my XWW and OM in a meeting where they supposedly never spoke to each other ended my marriage.

I truly believe that in time these ongoing, occasional brief emails, phone conversations, meetings and presentations will end your marriage too. And as your WW has no boundries it may not even be the current OM. After all you always allowed her to keep contacting the old OM.

When that happens you will find the price very high. Half your money, investments, property, income and time with your children will be gone. Your children will be affected for the rest of their lives. A lot of sadness and regrets for the things you did not do.

The upside is you will not have to fight over the TV remote in your new bachelor pad. Always look for that silver lining AB.

By the way, you say something about your WW being a principal and both of the having some kind of binding contracts. Most contracts are pretty sensitive to conflict of interest. School districts are particularly touchy. Presentations are typically sales oriented. Is he a vendor and she in a position of influence as a buyer? That would be very scary for both of them.