AlphaBeta - Your intent and your attitude are an example of one of the primary reasons why I decided to stop posting on MB. Because this thread has devolved into a difference of "opinion" between experienced members and essentially inexperienced members (including those who have been registered for a long while but have very little experience in working with someone trying to recover from adultery), I thought I'd simply log in and answer your question DIRECTLY before logging out once again.

Before going to the direct answer, let me comment on your statement in first part of the quotation. "It appears as though my thread as been hijacked by posters with the intent of furthering their own agenda." AlphaBeta, for those arguing FOR contact, you are right. For those arguing for NO contact, you are wrong. Their "agenda" is to try and help people recover from infidelity, save their marriages, and build a newer and better marriage than what existed before and during the affair.


Having said that, let me answer your question.

"My intent was to ask a simple question. I really wanted simple answers. What would YOU DO in my situation?"

Having read your posts it is clear that advice is not what you are looking for. You reached you conclusion and what you want to do PRIOR to asking the question. So here is my 2 part "simple" answer to your question, given your presupposition:

1. I would insist on NO contact whatsoever. If ANY communciation with the OM (to or from) "necessary" for work related issues exclusively cannot be handled through some intermediary rather than directly, then something or someone has to "go." There is no middle ground on this if you want your marriage to survive. Anything else will be ineffective "band-aids" that will just cover over the problem while allowing it to fester underneath;

2. Since you already have chosen the path of contact being "okay with you because it's 'necessary,'" there is no point in providing additional comment or advice. You have chosen your path, you will walk it.

When you come to the realization that No Contact is not "optional," MB members will be here to help you try to pick up the pieces.

Good luck and God bless.

I debated, after scanning through this thread, whether or not to add my two cents knowing full well the lashing I will receive. So I will just say where my WH and I am in our R and let those who wish to judge, do so. I am not asking for advice, just putting in where we are in relation to the original question.

I haven't posted in a while so some of you may not be familiar with my story. Brief...WH had begun an EA with a co-worker (emails/phone calls) that neither one of us was aware of until I came across some emails. After I did so, WH was ashamed and fully committed to working on our M. He let his supervisors at work know and stayed away even though most if not all contact was by email and phone. He works in the field and she in the office. When he told her that they could no longer have personal conversations, she of course was ticked and did the "don't call me if you need anything from the office" email.

FF 6 months later and he has now survived 7 rounds of "pink slips" and has searched endlessly for another job - 40 plus applications, home for sale, and NADA. To say he hasn't tried would be a lie. He still works with her. More so than he did when the EA was discovered. He knows I monitor his emails, he has no problem with that. He knows that I have eyes on him at all times if there happens to be a few and far between function where they will both be at. He is not a social bug so I don't really concern myself too much with that.

Am I concerned that this could start up? Yes. Am I panicked, sitting at home freaking out on an hourly basis? No. Do I think we are in recovery? No. Do I think if he had another job lined up he would make an excuse not to take it? No.

So...I live day to day knowing that he is still vulnerable but not on edge expecting it to happen. We discuss things as they come up and realize that as long as we continue to communicate what our needs are and what we see as red flags, we will be less vulnerable. Notice I did not say NOT vulnerable, I just said less. Do I like living like this? No. However, I also know that the bills have to get paid, when he is not at work, he is at home with me and there is no justification for phone calls, emails, etc....because there are none.

Some may say I am living in my own fog, and that's fine. But this is how we are handling our situation and so I just thought I'd share.

And here is your bottom line. You're not in recovery...because NC is not established.

And that's what we've tried to convince the original poster of as well.

Just because your WW isn't CURRENTLY screwing OM or anyone else (that you know of) doesn't mean that you are in recovery. The longer she is in this unhappy state, the more likely she is to cheat again and leave you. This is not a situation to take lightly.

AB,

I saw your first post a ways back...because of your screen name. I worked at AlphaBeta in my youth.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You asked for "What would you do" and got quite a few responses from those who did what you are choosing to do...and you can hear their regret, can't you? Passionate responses from a deep connection with you...that's what I see.

My contribution? Well, this reminds me of the passionate statements we've made at some time in our lives about our spouses and children. "I would step in front of a car for you"...

Contact is your car, AB. I promise.

In my marriage, our highest priority was money. We were poor. Hit our EN for admiration, appreciation, security, attention, etc. We focused on staying afloat, gaining ground...not our marriage. It was an undercurrent of fantasy we both swam in...rationalizing that without money, we'd have no marriage.

Not reality, eh?

Since MB, we've discovered how enmeshed our focus was with our belief in what love was...had to be earned, maintained, stored, stacked, measured, projected and manipulated. Problem was, we discovered that choosing to act from that belief meant that we not only earned love, we earned punishment for not loving in the way we wanted it, when we wanted and how we wanted it.

And I struggled for 15 years feeling second or last place in my DH's life...in his priorities. I spent a lot of energy to try to make myself his number one...not realizing it wasn't in my control.

My DH also struggled with feeling second or last place.

When my DH was told by his MC that NC was the only viable way to have a marriage to consider recoverying, my DH didn't hear, didn't listen. They worked together, three days a week. A week later, the MC said again...NC was undue influence...ruined clarity, grasp of reality and dashed hope of recovery because of this. An hour after the session, my DH broke up with OW by phone. They still worked together. Contact continued, of course.

We couldn't live without his salary, now, could we? That would ruin our marriage.

All the while his contact with OW three times a week had already ruined our chance of rebuilding our marriage. The difference that I see was that though I was aware and accepting of the contact as you are, I had chosen to wait on my DH's decision to either leave the marriage for OW, for himself or stay and give our marriage two years to change, to work on it. That was his goal in MC.

I can't tell from your posts what your WW's goal is--can you tell me?

My DH put in for a transfer with his company before deciding for the marriage. Didn't stop him while waiting for it to have personal contact a number of times and lie about it. Didn't change anything...he began following the MC blindly, going through his mourning (withdrawal) period before he really was not in NC...his mindset was there...which reminds me of your WW...reality wasn't.

When DH transferred and NC really began, we began to live in reality with both hands. Very different than before. That's when his lies stopped--both to himself and to me--and real recovery had a chance. We took it.

Putting our marriage ahead of everything else...money, children, admiration, image...well, it's changed our world. We would give lip service to saying our marriage was most important to us...that we'd step in front of a car to save the other...

Know that car. Because you will see you are lying to yourself...you aren't stepping in front of it...you don't take the action, you won't have the feeling of being half of your own top priority...which means you're in the way of the natural consequences of an A...rejecting reality, twisting it to fit with fantasy...

The anger will come down the line...especially with continued contact. Avoiding shame, humiliation (when in fact, you haven't avoided them at all...you've felt those, they're real)...public or private...if the public comes before your marriage, then you're second place...if your children's comfort zone comes before your marriage, then you're not leading your family, are you? They are equally affected by her choice to have an A. I know...I was born of infidelity and grew up in it...we know, even at 4, 5 and 6 years old. Pretending it didn't happen, doesn't have consequences made a liar of my parents to me over and over again when they said my actions had consequences.

Why did mine if theirs didn't?

When consequences threaten to destroy our ground gained to our goals, then look at the goals again...if they were your highest priority, could they really be why you ended up where you are today? What we think are our priorities may not come close to being...to acting from.

You believe you've got a year of healing...recoverying. I don't see that. I don't see the huge discoveries of how your WW chooses to live...does she go by what she feels to define her reality? Feel nothing = No A? What about you?

Take feelings out of the equation. I equate continuing the A (creating new consequences, ongoing wounds) as continued contact. Why? Because where your thoughts dwell, there is your treasure. Each time there is contact, there is renewed thought. No renewed thoughts? Hmmm..."No, he doesn't affect me" during contact? Still dwelling...focus on him making her...which was the drug...empowering someone else to make her feel, think, believe...OP are just the conduits, not the source. We are the source.

Your WW may feel you wouldn't step in front of a car for her...though you may say you would. She may not believe your words of love and devotion because your actions say to her she's a paycheck to you, a conduit herself. Can feel like we're managing our lives, not living them. Intimacy is knowing her beliefs...which that is...choosing to believe she is of service to you...not your equal partner, born lovable, whole, complete...cannot earn your love...that you choose to love her...act from your love; and she, you.

Step in front of that car, AB. Accept that the upheaval in your life is because your marriage is now your number one priority you're willing to act on...to do what it takes...for its protection...so that what you ask of your WW to do isn't unreasonable...what you're unwilling to do and not do for it.

If you choose to live from her feelings, then you're saying it's okay to when you feel in love with someone, to betray yourself, your spouse and your marriage...your children, too...for you are teaching them to react to their feelings instead of acting from their beliefs. Affects everything.

Her feelings will follow her actions...not the other way around. Respect she may not choose NC...all it would take to ensure it...accept she has different priorities. By accepting contact, please accept that your marriage is not your number one. Be really honest with yourself, first.

Real recovery takes years. Because we're complex humans in a human marriage. Forgiving too soon is a betrayal, too; as much as not choosing to forgive fully. Learning to respect marital boundaries changes the marriage. Put that knowledge into action, AB. Respect yours.

See the car.

LA

Awesome, L.A.

How would I handle? How DID I handle. I let contact continue. It lessened in frequency somewhat, and I monitored as much as I could.

Our divorce was final aug 30 this year. We were separated for 2 years before that.

We lived in a ****** from the time I first realized how intense the relationship the two of them had. A steadily more painful ****** into the lowest circles of pain.

My H still has his good paying job, all the benefits, the prestige and respect of people who only see the surface. He has moved back into the family home after buying me out for my share. I receive a decent spousal support. He does not, however, have a marriage, a wife, an intact family.

To my belief, they never had sex. Just contact. By the time he offered to break off contact with her and her family forever, it was too late for me. The hurt and pain is still there. And our 18 yo son is forever affected by our D.

Your future, if contact continues. Guaranteed.

What Mark1952 quoted in red really stood out for me also.

You both had "pretty" much healed from the A and then a few weeks ago your W started acting distant..etc.

GOSH...MAYBE SHE HAD CONTACT WITH THE SCUMBALL!! Ya think?

Some event at that approximate time caused her to change her attitude toward you and the M and become distant.

I have a bad feeling that one of these days you will post a thread that will say "FOUND OUT W & OM IN TOTAL CONTACT..SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO MEL AND THE REST"

Believe it or not, there have been many threads with this theme.

It is BLACK AND WHITE in adultery because there is no GREY area.

IMHO

kirk

AlphaBeta, I know I said I wasn't going to post to you anymore [so I lied, kill me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />] but I just found a radio archive segment that closely resembles your situation. The man's wife is a teacher who had an affair. The affair "ended" 2 years ago but they are not in recovery because she still works with the OM. Dr. Harley tells him to go into Plan B because the marriage cannot be recovered as long as there is contact, because she remains in the FOG.

He tells the H to go into Plan B and move to another city if he wants to save his marriage.

Dr. Harley: "she is going to be in the fog as long as she works with this guy."

You can download this segment for a $1 or email me and I will send you the password to my account at [email]ohmelodylane@aol.com.[/email]

archive link: https://secure.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/radio_programs.cfm

Sign in and download Segment: #00485
May 15, 2007 - Segment: #00485

Description:
John from Ohio, his wife had an affair and continues to work with her ex lover. John's wife is angry with John for suggesting she quit her job. Also John says the love relationship is still not back to normal.
TIME: 6:44 -- SIZE: 1.54 MB

This really is too funny. The most basic premis of killing an affair, NC under ALL possible circumstances, is classed as extreem. LOL. Well I guess it is extreme. Harley tells people to leave jobs, move away. Guess he's an extremist.

Yeah, that should do it for you. Then "Moderate" contact can be maintained. Although, your marriage won't make it. But hey, if maintaining contact is priority then no worries, right?

Jo

Kirk is correct. I think we should start counting those posts where BS come back and their new post reads "YOU WERE ALL RIGHT, WHY DIDN'T I LISTEN".

Some folks just have to learn the hard way. Its sad.

I was thinking of quoting excerpts from different posters but realized that there were so many that I will not. I do not think anyone wants to hear my story...listen to what I am saying and stop jumping to conclusions. In fact, just like ML, I will not post in my own thread again.( but ML lied :-))

Why are I here? Because I have M issues. Why do I have M issues? Because I was not meeting my wife's EN. Why not? Because I had become "fat and lazy" in my M. It's the easy way out. No more spark, no butterflies etc. Quite content to sit on my computer while she went back to school.

So what happened? She started talking to another man. They talked and emailing on and off for two months. They never saw each other (actually they did. It was once.)

Stop jumping to conclusions and keep reading!!!

My W was getting her EN from the OM that she was not getting from me.

Now here I come along. I find out about the email and the phone calls. I talk about it and cry about it. We go to counseling. Things are getting better.

Why are things getting better? Because I am now providing for my Wifes EN that she was not getting from me. Since she is getting them from me, she no longer needs them from the OM.

This A was very very very very minor to start off with. It did NOT even develop into anything. It was barely even considered an A.

OK, so now I am fulfilling her EN. Life is good. During that time she does not SEE him, she has VISUAL CONTACT with him. I think you believe that if someone SEES someone else, they are doing something they should not be doing. It is not like that. She barely even acknowledges his presence when she saw him. She has no need to. The cause had been eliminated.

The cause of her minor interest in the OM has been eliminated because I am there for her whereas I was not during her time of need.

Fast-forward a year. We are getting along quite well but like any M, we have our ups and downs. I am the one who is rebuilding the trust and to do so, I am in hyper-monitoring stage just "to be sure" that there is nothing going on. I find nothing. I am still monitoring. Nothing is getting past my monitoring.

For all you pundits out there, quit telling me she is definitely seeing him behind my back. In her job, I know where she is at all times. Being a public figure, she cannot even go to the bathroom without someone knowing and seeing her.

We were experiencing a "down" when she said that she was not sure of her love for me. We continued counseling and continue still.

Her lack-of-love feelings have NOTHING TO DO with her A. She felt disconnected a very short time. 2 weeks ago we were in the "down" period. That is when I joined MB. We are actually getting along splendidly right now. Perhaps this is the"up" in our M.

Everyone here (with the exception of MyRevelation who seems to understand my situation a bit more) believes that my wife has had an affair with another man. If you can call talking on the phone and sending emails an affair, then you are all right. I call it an affair but that term is so general that any inappropriate contact no matter how minor is considered an affair.

What's the difference between my W sleeping with OM and my W talking to OM? Nothing. They are both considered an affair but they are not the same.

If you feed a dog every day and then feed him less and less, he will go looking for some food because he is hungry. If you realize that you have made a mistake and see he is hungry and start giving him a lot more food, he will not look for it elsewhere.

My wife is that dog (sorry dear. I mean no harm. You are not literally a dog) (just in case she ever finds this posting and figures out who I am. LOL)

Folks, I am moving on here. I really really appreciate the passion this topic has caused. What I really was asking is .. what would YOU do, not what should I do. I was looking for opinions given the circumstances. Apparently that was taken out of context. The feedback this thread is receiving is based on the assumption that my W was/had a full-blown affair and that she had a secret desire to continue. Perhaps I should have made my self a bit more clear although I believe I did state exactly what happened.

In closing, I have accepted responsibility of my actions. I firmly believe my M is on the right track.

Lastly, this is MY situation. Everyones situation is different. At least give me the benefit of the doubt when I say I know my W and she has proven that I can trust her again. While not 100%, it is getting better all the time.


Sincerely,

AB.

Wish you the best, AB. We will be here if you decide you want to save your marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

AlphaBeta - I read your entire thread, did not "jump" to any conclusions, but arrived at conclusions based upon what you decided to dole out about your situation and your responses to the posts of other members.

So why am I bothering to take MY time to post yet again to you? It's because OTHERS may read your thread who could be harmed by your attitude (and that of MyRevelation, etc.) who THINK that your situation is so "unique" that ignoring MB foundational principles for recovering from infidelity justifies, rationalizes, and is right if you don't "like" what you are hearing from experienced members.

You began with the PREMISE that rock solid, foundational principles of MB do not apply to you, your wife, and your marriage. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT. You can believe anything you want to believe and do whatever you want to do. You can practice Conflict Avoidance all you want, but all you are doing is sweeping the "problems" under the rug. They WILL resurface. You are playing with "acceptance" of the symptoms and think that your attempts at meeting your wife's Emotional Needs is the SOLE answer to your marital problems. You can continue to live in that fog of denial all you want. The RISK is yours, not ours. For the benefit of others who may be reading your thread, however, I will address some pertinent statements in your thread in the hope that others may be disinclined to think "your way" is the "right way." Whether or not you choose to read further or, heaven forbid, perhaps even consider that experienced members might be right and what they are saying might actually have relevance to your marital situation.


So WHAT is "behind" your thread, your posting, and your "attitude"?

So it is CLEAR, and not a conclusion "jumped to," that your INTENT was NOT to seek help but to "stir the pot" of dissention and argument SO THAT you could "set up" others so you could disagree with them AS IF you were the authority on recovery from Infidelity.

Of course, you didn't reveal your true intentions until much later in the thread. What you DID was set up the circumstance of APPEARING to be seeking opinions and advice when you had already reached a conclusion and brought your presupposition "to the table."

What you SAID was: "My intent was to ask a simple question. I really wanted simple answers. What would YOU DO in my situation etc etc."

You did NOT want answers, simple or otherwise. You want to contend that CONTACT of any sort is "okay" and "permissible" because of "unavoidable" circumstances.

That contention is pure rubbish and it is that PREMISE that is rejected. You begin with a false premise and all of your "logic" is thereby flawed because it begins with a false premise. Contact is NOT "unavoidable." It MAY be "inconvenient," but it's NOT unavoidable.


The FACT that you know this to be true was revealed when you posted:

This is a false statement at worst, or fog-laden rationalization at best.

You DO NOT "agree with everything MB stand for in the pursuit of a fresh start to a marriage" simply because you reject one of the bedrock fundamental cornerstones of the "MB philosophy" of HOW to obtain a recovered marriage and a "fresh start to a marriage" that has suffered from infidelity in ANY of it's forms (EN, PA, or EN/PA).

You tacitly acknowledge that "MB" is right when you conclude with " If I had it my way, there would be no contact Period!!"

AlphaBeta, you CAN have it "your way." Understand this if you understand nothing else: The Wayward Spouse is/was totally in control of the Affair and SOLELY responsible for the CHOICE to engage in an Affair; the Betrayed Spouse is totally in control of the Recovery from the Affair. YOU are exercising your "control" in allowing contact and rationalizing it in your head because of "extenuating circumstances" that would make NO CONTACT "inconvenient," but not impossible.

If you "had it your way" makes it CLEAR that you are "having it your wife's way," ceding "control of recovery" to her by way of Conflict Avoidance and "hoping for the best." Some plan!




AlphaBeta, people DO heal and move on emotionally. Feelings for the OP DO subside. But only AFTER all contact has ended...period!

Since you like analogies so much, let me give you a couple of others that might illustrate your "wishful thinking" in how to approach Contact and Recovery.

Consider an alcoholic or a smoker. A person CAN "taper off" and hope they will "kick the habit forever." That DOES work for some people, however the VAST majority have to "kick the habit" COLD TURKEY and completely. They must NEVER again, doing it either way, have ANY contact (use) with the alcohol or cigarettes. They SHOULD NEVER put themselves into a setting (social, business, etc.) where others who have NOT been addicted and don't see the "problem" for the formerly addicted. ONE drink or ONE cigarette "may not" re-ignite the full blown addiction, but it WILL cause "fond memories" and "desires."

You might think that's not happening or might not happen, but let's be honest with ourselves here, it's ALREADY happening, and you know it even if you are stubbornly trying to discount or ignore it. Re-read what you posted about your CURRENT "marital situation:"

"My wife appears to have been distancing herself from me over the past few weeks. She has withheld almost all affection. ...She believes she still loves me but cannot confirm that she is “in love” with me. ...All questions are answered with the classic “I don’t know” when I ask her if she loves me or wants to be with me or even get divorced."

Now contrast that statement with your later statement; " In closing, I have accepted responsibility of my actions. I firmly believe my M is on the right track.

Lastly, this is MY situation. Everyones situation is different. At least give me the benefit of the doubt when I say I know my W and she has proven that I can trust her again. While not 100%, it is getting better all the time. Rrrrr…ight!
It's obviously getting much better and will continue to "get better" as long as the OM is NOT "out of sight, out of mind."


AFTER a year and you are STILL getting “I don’t know” when I ask her if she loves me or wants to be with me or even get divorced."

Here is the "problem," AlphaBeta. All marriages ARE different, ARE between two people with differing personalities, beliefs, desires, and Standards and Boundaries.
But there ARE also certain things that COMMON and SHARED by ALL marriages that are marriages in the "traditional sense."

First is the VOW of exclusivity.

Second is the VOW of "forsaking ALL others."

Third is the VOW of a lifetime commitment "for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health.

Fourth is that there is ONLY "room" in a marriage for a maximum of three people: the husband, the wife, and God. There is NO room for anyone else. If someone is an unbeliever, they can drop God, but they cannot substitute anyone else in God's place.



Your wife (and you also by your acceptance of her behaviors) DOES NOT believe in the MB principles of CARING and PROTECTION.

It really IS that simple.


MyRevelation said: " Obviously, there are those who view the world in strictly Black and White, whereas the world is nearly all varying shades of grey when viewed through my eyes."

You latched onto that false statement and viewed is as affirmation that you are right and all the other members are wrong when they are "non-negotiable" on the issue of Contact with a former Affair partner.

Ahhh….but now you say that they are both just "consummate professionals," and THAT is supposed to insulate and protect your marriage. "Ridiculous" would be my response. INFIDELITY does not respect one's "professionalism," education, position, or "status" in life.

There is NO [color:"#666666"]"gray"[/color] area or "shade of gray" when it comes to INFIDELITY and Recovery from an Affair. It is stop smoking, stop drinking, and NEVER put yourself in a position to be tempted again or to be "reminded" of the "good fantasy feelings" associated with the Other Person. There is NO other way to accomplish that than total and complete No Contact for the rest of the Wayward Spouse's natural life. The "line" of friendship, professional job related only contact, etc. has been IRRETRIEVABLY crossed and can NEVER be reestablished. There is no "gray" area here, not "just a little contact" is okay because we can maintain, "surface appearances."

But what is YOUR response to the advice that has been proven time and time again, is a fundamental bedrock principle of Dr. Harley and the "Marriage BUILDERS" philosophy of recover from Adultery?


MyRevelation has NOT hit the "nail on the head." He has provided you with RATIONALIZATION and ENABLEMENT so that you CAN continue to sabotage your own marital recovery attempts. In short answer to your question, "NO." There is NO "greater stress" on a marriage than ADULTERY. There may be "stresses" involved in the other options such as changing jobs, having less income, etc., but they are PART of the marriage covenant. They are done to save and rebuild the marriage, NOT to punish or "control" the Wayward Spouse. Materialism and inconvenience are NOT the determinants of a "good marriage." Adultery is the guillotine application of "how to NOT have a 'good marriage'."

AlphaBeta, there is NO "usually with good intent." The advice regarding No Contact, for life, is ALWAYS with good intent and is fundamental to a successful recovery from Adultery. I speak from personal experience on this issue and not solely as an advocate of "some MB position." Contact of ANY sort does not work and it WILL sabotage ALL of your recovery efforts no matter how many of your wife's Emotional Needs you think you are meeting or trying to meet.


So when you ask:

The answer is and emphatic "NO!"

All of your other "reasons" are just rationalizations and justifications to ENABLE your wife to continue to vulnerable to an affair (at best) or to carry on a clandestine (at worst) affair "beneath your radar."

You think you are great detective, but you would not be the first person to be deceived because there is another truth that goes "hand in hand" with the Wayward Spouse How to have an Affair Manual, course number 101:

ALL Wayward Spouses become accomplished and professional LIARS and learn how to avoid the radar. At least for a while, because eventually the truth WILL come out.
So how you like "playing with fire?" (Contact)

You already answered that question, but then found ways to rationalize that it is NOT the one basic and fundamental NEED and RECOMPENSE that a Wayward Spouse can offer to his/her Betrayed Spouse and that is REQUIRED for a successful recovery.


" If I had it my way, there would be no contact Period!!"

You CAN have it your way. It IS the only way. Grow a set, establish the Boundary, and actually take the single biggest stance that will help to recover your marriage.

If not, we'll all see you around later, either for a Divorce or for how to recover from; "All questions are answered with the classic “I don’t know” when I ask her if she loves me or wants to be with me or even get divorced."

"I love you but I'm not in love with you." THE common verbiage of the active and/or mentally and emotionally "checked out" Wayward Spouse.

Are you in recovery? Maybe, but the "odds" are strongly against it and getting worse with every "allowed" contact.

Your signature line states the misapplication of a statement that is true in a given context but false in the context of Conflict Avoidance as a means to insure recovery from Infidelity; "[color:"brown"] What the mind can perceive and believe, it can achieve.[/color]

Try perceiving and believing in NO CONTACT for any reason for the rest of her natural life as being essential to successfully recovering your marriage to your wife.


Good luck and God bless.

AB:

There is still PLENTY of help here, to HELP you get further along with your W.

You described the roller-coster of recovery. Ups and down with W.

What are your top 3 EN's?

What are your W's?

LG

Well AB,
I would say that the post you just received from FH, is in reality, "the one that hit the nail on the head."

BTW, FH, where the heck have you been? You're missed around here. Well, at least by some such as me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

All Blessings,
Jerry

LG, the point is that he can't even begin recovery until contact ends because his wife is in a FOG. The next step is not to focus on EN's, but to go into Plan B if contact doesn't end.

There is alot of denial going on here, and AB seems not to even understand that this is an affair. No one can help him with anything until that changes. All of the need meeting in the world will not compensate for continued contact.

Great post, ForeverHers! Glad to see you back!

My attorney also mentioned that WH does NOT want to go to court. Maybe he doesn't want to get up on the stand and testify as to how he betrayed and abandoned his wife and children without attending a single MC session...?? About how he lied for two years...about what RT was referencing in the emails that I discovered on d-day...

________________

Hi LS,

as it stands now....WIll he have to go to court and testify?
what can happen that will change that?

how do YOU feel about going to court and testifying?
(curious more than anything)

Hope you are well.

nia 17, Did you accidentally post on this thread?