New to the board, forgive me if I don't use the acronyms.

I broke off a 15 month affair several months ago. OP and I met on a marriage forum (not this one!)sharing our desparation about our marriages,and the fact that both our spouses refused to go into marriage counseling etc. etc. (At one point, my wife and I had not made love in 18 months.)

OP happened to live several hours away. The short story is, we chatted for several months, met, fell in love. I have two young children. If it weren't for that, I would have left and married this woman. Even at the expense of my career which would have ended with my actions. (She did leave her husband. The divorce was pending when we split, but with or without me she wasn't looking back.)

The affair ended as mutually as possible. The bottom line is she wanted to be married. I did too, but I didn't know when, if ever, I could leave my children. I could see the waiting was killing her and chose not to keep it going while I decided. While figuring things out, the last month we didn't see each other but talked on the phone several times a day like we always did.

When it was over, it was over. No contact. This was three months ago. At first it hurt, but it was also good to feel clean again and be free of the complications. For about two weeks it felt right. Relatively little withdrawal. Then the reality hit me that I was stuck in a marriage that wasn't going to get better. I remembered the desparation of the previous five years before the affair. The wanting to talk and work on it, and getting no response. I told my wife about the affair, how it was over, and how I needed to know if she wanted to stay and work on the marriage. Really work on it.

The turn around has been good, if not great. After a few bumps on the way , it is clear my wife is working harder on this marriage than she ever has. I am too. We have a a chance to have a real marriage based on real intimacy with one another

Here is the struggle: Even with my marriage moving in the right direction for the first time in a long time, my sense of withdrawal keeps getting worse. I am still longing for the OP. Before I was married, I had had quite a few relationships of varying lengths. Several that I really cared about. One in which I was definitely in love. But none of them came close to how I felt about the OP. Not even close.

I want to fall in love with my wife. But this is really getting in the way. I haven't shared much of it with her.

I feel like I need to hear some definitive word as to why I am absolutely doing the right thing, something that I can hang my hat on and never look back. It may not be out there. It may just be a time thing. It's the fact that my withdrawal is getting worse with time that alarms me. But somehow the pat answers aren't enough. ("It was really just lust". No it wasn't. I chose not sleep with the OP for the final six weeks as we sorted things out. And to be frank, I haven't "imagined" her sexually since we split "Many affairs live under the "soul mate" illusion." Look, I seriously dated (3 months plus) about a dozen women before I was married. I never felt for anyone like I did for her. Not my wife. No one.)

Somehow I think it would help if I could be convinced my marriage could get close to the intimacy I had with the OP. It was so bad for so long, that I am having a hard time believing it.

Or an intelligent, well informed, non knee jerk response as to the minefields that await those in even the "best" of affairs.

I realize whatever misery I am feeling is the price of an affair. So tough for me. But it is getting in the way of giving my marriage the best. I want to stop looking back and second guessing my decision. I want to fall in love with my wife.

Can't post a lot now.... need to go out to a meeting.

Go read Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. Both are by Dr. Harley.

Also read the concepts section and then come back so we can help you.

L.

It is not easy when you fall in love and it is forbidden...it hurts, it is wrong, but in your heart it feels right. When you have an affair, there is definately something missing from your marriage. In my situation the OP was someone I had a strong connection with, we were able to communicate so well....and I am still wishing for that in my M as well. I fell in Love with OP, it has been 3 years, there has been NC. I am working on my marriage, I love my H, I always have...but communication has never been that great in our M. I need to have communication, and the OP met that need in a big way.I miss him, I miss our friendship, and I realize now that I always will miss him. It is hard to push feelings away, I have good days when I do not think of OP, but those are far & few between. I wish you luck, and hope your marriage can find the happiness you and your BS desearve. I just want to let you know that those feelings may not dissapear as quickly as you want them to. It is an everyday struggle to push those feelings away and exclusively Love your spouse the way they should be loved!!!

Have you ever had another bad situation where you didn't think you'd get over the bad feelings and finally were able to? It is VERY hard when a M hasn't been all it should've been and to "forget" the bad times and move on to a better M.

You mention you didn't want to leave your child. Do you love your wife? Or are you really staying for your child?

If your wife has gone from a not so good M to working her hiney off to make it better you are indeed a lucky man! Are you giving all you can to meet her EN's? Are you focusing on rebuilding your M?

What was so great about the OW that your wife can't compete with? What did the OW do,act, etc that your wife can't/isn't doing?

From the flip side of the coin (BS) I too have the same fears just in a different way from you. Why can't I forget or move past my WH's EA with PA intent? Why can't I forget all the things that were said to HER and I was treated with indifference. I keep trying. Some days are better than others. I pray ALOT for our M.

I hope you will find some solution. I hope you will find the love for you wife. Keep trying. But don't torture you wife. I'm sure she sees your conflict and it HURTS her. You decided to stay and rebuild your M...do what you decided. Read ALOT here. There is so much good info. Follow the MB concepts. Sometimes from what I've seen they may not feel natural at first, but repetition makes them good habits. And hopefully you will find in your wife the best. Keep busy so your mind doesn't wander back to pandora's box.

Stay strong.

look at some of the logistics...

1. How much time did you spend a day in contact with the OP...

on the phone
on IM
on email
on whatever....

2. How much mental energy did you spend focused on
seeing her...
talking to her
planning to visit her

3. how much time did you spend thinking of her...
driving to work
at work
driving home from work
in the evening
at night

how much of this thinking/focus
was
warm fuzzy thoughts
silly thoughts
replaying conversations that made you feel good
replaying physical contact
anticipating in your brain physical contact...


just logistically how much time and energy did you invest in to this other person....

ARK

Buck,

Do you think that OW is still missing you the same way, or has she moved on?

Does it help you to know and accept that this affair relationship would have had a less than 5% chance of success?

These are things to consider.

If you are really sincere about wanting a better marriage, please consider MC with Steve or Jennifer or attend one of the MB seminars. They really work in recovering the love in a damaged marriage.

Who

You are doing the right thing. I think the biggest reason you are missing the OW is that you are afraid that after all this effort you are putting on your marriage, your needs still won't be met like the OW met them. People here have recovered from your situation.

BTW, who said that the other woman could meet all your needs either? Your wife was still meeting some of your needs at home (family commitment, domestic support). If you would have left your wife, those needs wouldn't have been met.

Don't regret doing the right thing. You are on the right track.

Buck:

Of course this is the right thing to do. You will have to forego your concern for feelings of love and intimacy for while, and focus on the ACTIONS that will bring those feelings forth.

It will take awhile to rebuild trust and love, be prepared for the long haul.

As someone else has stated, a successful marriage isn't based on finding the right person, but being the right person.

best wishes,

Buck,

I'm in the same boat as you albeit much earlier in the withdrawl phase ... perhaps my comments will be nothing more than naive optimism???

I feel for you because your situations sounds eerily similar to mine. In these early days of withdrawl I'm using these thoughts to help me through...
- at the time I felt I was in love with OW but now see I was in love with the feelings and not necessarily OW ... if I can learn how to express those EN to my DW then I can fill that void ... I know it's possible because we wouldn't have fallen in love and married in first place otherwise ... we just forgot how
- as other posters said ... it was unlikely that OW was meeting all your needs ...
- I do understand how intense and "real" it feels and how painful when that gets ripped from you ... commit yourself to wanting to feel that way again ... but to do so with your S
- As hard as it may be I try to think about seeing OW in a different light. I'm sure you're beating yourself up and feeling the guilt of your actions ... although OW never once suggested I leave my family the reality is she was in effect asking me to risk everything dear to me as much as I was doing same to her ... for me that helps take the "shine off the halo" somewhat and a bit easier to disassociate the feeling of love from the person.

I think you're absolutely doing the right thing ... your kids will be better off for it ... your S will be better off for it and in time so will you!

Be strong!

nice post lstmyway...

It is true that OW and OP are not aware of ...or dismiss (ie rationalize) the amount of energy they are putting in to an affair...

it becomes all consuming

planning contact
seeking contact
focusing on the OP...
creating an image to present...
etc

it is rarely and most likely never the same amount of energy put in to a marriage....except when surprise you think back to dating and wooing your spouse....
that's when you infact treated your spouse pretty much equal to the OW>..

also there is a false personification to the high 'importance or value' of contact with the OP...

a false sense of this must be so
true
deep
and
meaningful if two people are willing to risk soooo much to keep in touch...

it's all built on lies and deceipt...

a foundation of cards...

people in affairs often claim they can
be them true selves
or express themselves fully to the affair partner and vice-versa...

when it is our actions that truly define who were are
not ever our words....

and the acts of engaging in an affair are core terroristic acts towards people in our lives....

that IS who active affair people are...
and you can't change the definition to meet the requirements of our needs....

it is pure selfish behavior....
and has nothing to do with any definition of love

Needs are easily met within an affair...they are the empty feel good in the moment type of contact....

devoid of the true ability to nuture and honor fully..
the foundations of true love

ARK

Here is something my husband said to me once: "You cannot separate the person from the situation."

He fell in love with a woman who went out to lunch with him and, over leisurely lunches, flattered him into an affair. He came home to a wife who was dealing with four small children, including a baby with colic, and who was upset about his relationship with this woman. He never talked with his lover about mortgage payments or the other realities of life. That's why an affair is a fantasy.

Fool's gold. Those are the words that you could use to talk to yourself. It looks like gold, but it's not.

Cherishing

Excellent post.

all of you

A couple of responses to the thoughts presented:

Working: Three year sounds scary. But, like you, the problem is this took the form of a friendship. I lost my confidante. That is hard. I've told my wife I want her to be my confidante. We are working toward that.

MVG: I am very blessed by the sea change. I "fought" for years to get the children out of our bed. Then I gave up. My W is finally willing to have our three yr. old sleep with the sibling across the room. The next stop is to get them out to one of our three bedrooms. She thinks about the A everyday, but in my opinion, my W been quite willing to forgive. She dwells more on us, than the OP. Again I am blessed.

As to what I am giving. She has said she has noticed a big change, but can tell when I am pre occupied. I think one of the challenges for me, is that the OP and I were better suited temperamentally, than my W and I. I mean this in an almost clinical, non sentimental way. We all find some people's 'style" easier to deal with than others. Doesn't mean their 'special', just that they happen to work well with us. The OP tended to move toward people. This brings out the giver in me, and I find it easy to reciprocate. (It works the same way with the hundreds of relationships I have in my job). Every unsettled feeling was dealt with immediately. She hated to brood. This works well with me. And it was natural with her. My W and I on the other hand, both tend to withdraw. We both thrive on someone else's initiation. But even then, maybe not. Sometimes my W would reject even apologetic advances. Our personality combination can work, it just takes a lot more work.

Ark: A lot of time. Near constant. One of the things that felt better about ending the affair, was the let up. It was stressful (poor me!) trying to balance the affair with my high job demands and the semblance of a marriage. But there was also a void. It was so clear I mattered to somebody. Not nearly as clear that I mattered to my wife or even my children. This was true even before the affair.(Changing now, BTW) A lot of the during affair contact was giving the attention to keep the relationship going. The warm, fuzzy stuff has occurred more often after the affair. .

WHO: I believe the OW probably misses me a great deal. She was deeply in love and wanted to be married. I walked with her through a lot changes. Got her out of the sexual lifestyle she hated that her husband had co erced her into, [I got her out of the fire and into the frying pan so to speak], moved her into her first apartment, helped her enter college again to finish her degree etc. Oh, and most surprisingly, got her back into her faith!!!

Which is finally what helped us split. SHe knew and I knew that finally God could not bless our relationship. This realization gave her consolation. If we split, we could finally be the people God wanted us to be. I believe, deep down, she wanted to be a person of integrity. Her marriage had been corrupt since it's inception. I helped 'get' her out of that. But our relationship was corrupt too. I believe she misses me terribly, but I also believe she has it within her to be extremely "grateful" but keep moving on.

jmwc: First paragraph, right on. Deep fear.

Second paragraph also true. Had I left, I would be pining for my children right now. Probably more so. The OW could do nothing about it.

I look forward to the coming day when I what I feel about my children I will feel for my W as well.

Scott: Yes. Temporarily foregoing is the key. Almost like I can not expect such things right now. That I need to be OK with that, because they will come later.


1st: Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, I have been with enough women to know that I really was in love with the OW. (I have also experienced the phenomenon of being in love with the idea of being love. My A was different than that feeling. Decidedly.) Your last bullet point is so true. OW was never co ercive. But still. And in fact shesaw this about herself, which gave her the strength to leave when I suggested it.

ARK- Built on lies and deceit. That's the peg I need to ahng my hat on.

Cherish: I desparately want to see it as fool's gold. It would help me recover so much more quickly. Haven't quite reasoned my way into it yet.

Thanks All! And not so BTW . Writing about this helps alot.

This is the exact thing I think about my WW's A. I've even tried to point out to her that they have it easy. They have (had) lunch each day at work and then did each other on Friday nights all while I was dealing with real life, I.E. bills, kids, keeping the house hold running, earning her a very nice living etc. But of course she can't see through the fog.

Thanks for helping me see that others are feeling the same way as me. I really appreciate this post.

I recognize this feeling 100%!! This is what helps me separate the feeling from the person ... in my case it was having that void filled that felt like love ... not necessarily who filled it.

Not to belittle how you feel ... but I think many could echo your comments on how "real" it was (self included!!)

Try to see through the feeling and disect why it felt so real. Just my opinion ... but I think until you can separate that feeling from OW you'll continue to struggle with this. It's hard to think of it this way but some of the material on MB talks about addiction and how smokers eventaully come to dislike smoke, drinkers dislike alcohol, etc. They separate the feeling they got from what it was that gave them that feeling (oh .. BTW ... ex-smoker here too!!)

It's good that writing is helping ... it helps me too.

You seem like a bright individual with a sharp mind ... you can do this!

Buck, I too can 100% relate to what you're feeling. OM and I's EA ended 2.5 years ago, but there is still not a day that goes by, barely an hour that goes by that I don't think of him. We do live in the same town and occasionally see eachother in passing (in our vehicles). So NC is going as well as can be expected with the size of our town. Our EA ended with absolutely no animosity. Only understanding for each other's situation.

I met my H when I was 17. We've been together for 20 years and M for 12. We have 7 yo twins. Obviously what I wanted/needed @ 17 is much more different than now as a 37 year old woman. As in your situation, my H avoids conflict, is not a communicator at all, has no problem pawning the workload of anything on me, has never really met my needs etc. etc. etc. My R with OM was completely different than with H. No, I didn't argue with him about the mortgage, the lawn, the bills etc. BUT we talked in great length about ALL of those things.

As you, I am certain that OM and I are better suited as a couple. I am certain that it was love. BUT I didn't marry OM. I married H, built a house with him, had kids with him, chose to live life with him. Just as you, I am certain that OM and I miss each other greatly. BUT I do not think that I can live with the guilt of leaving my H. Guilt because of H, guilt because of my kids, guilt because of my family (parents, inlaws etc.). Even if I DID leave my H for OM, the foundation for my R with OM would be tarnished from the start. Mix all of this with the spiritual aspect and THIS is why "I" stay. At this point, I don't need a "great, blissfully happy life." I just need to do the right thing. My R with H will never be what it is with OM, but I feel I owe it to my family to stay.

I will also say that since my EA, my H is much more attentive, tries alot harder to meet my EN's, is a much nicer person to be around, just is a nicer person in general etc. He does more around the house, is more active in my life, our kid's lives etc. But I still find myself thinking about OM. I would desperately like to move on from him and build a better M with my H. My H IS trying. I am trying, but so far we've not found that "connection", but we're finding a level of "this is who we can be, this is what WE can achieve together". We've been to multiple marriage counselors. At this point we're all "talked" out. We seem to do a better job just setting up "communication dates" ourself.

Don't mean to be a downer in this post. I just wanted to let you know that I do fully understand what you're feeling. You're 3 months out, I'm 2.5 years out. They say it will get easier. I hope that will be the case for you. For me, right now, I can at least have the peace in knowing that I'm doing the right thing. Doing right by my kids. My hope is that my H and I can get on the same page, find that connection, life a happy, peaceful life.

Also, I realize that this is a forum based on infidelity. I apologize to anyone that I've offended - but it my truth. I just wanted Buck to know he's not alone in his thinking. I hope you and your wife can find the key to YOUR happiness.

Thanks Callie.

Yes it appears we are similar. No animosity in ending. The drive to do the right thing. The pain of explaining and re explaining my divorce to anyone close. But the clincher always was: Never ever again being able to tuck my children in at night, every night. Finally, this was the unbearable thing. I don't know how anybody is able to leave dealing with that.

And like you I was in love. I am open to the idea that I was not. But so far, the explanations aren't convincing. The addiction idea is interesting, but no one can explain how an affair where EN's are getting met and LU's are being deposited is an addiction and a marriage where the same thing is happening, is just a good marriage.

Be that as it may. My marriage can and is getting better. I really don't want to be thinking about this hourly in 2.5 years. I am not so sure I can feel as loved and initimate with my W as I did with the OP. But I won't rule it out.
My hope is that the oombination of time and mutual work will be enough to turn the tide of my thoughts. I don't have to feel as safe and intimate with my W as I did with my OP. I just have to feel it enough so that time will ebb the residual feelings about my OP into fleeting memories. And when they come, I am able to say, "Yes, in spite of its wrongness, that relationship felt special. But I am in a much better place today. I know it. I feel it. I am blessed to be where I am today. With who I am with today." And mean it.

I need more than the peace of a right decision. I need deep love. My wife does too.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. And spurring mine.

Callie1,
I can feel your pain and I'm sorry that you opened pandora's box.

As a BS I fear my WH is staying because it's the "right thing" even with his efforts my gut tells me even with OW out of the picture, he's not really where he wants to be. I hope you and your H can find a better solution than just because it's the right thing. Life is to short to settle. Does your H realize how you feel? He is willing to settle for life with you without your heart? I ask not to be mean or controversial, but I have to wonder if my WH considers that too. My heart is not whole hearted in our M right now. I need to see his efforts, true remorse, change.

Prayers for both you and Buck as you travel this very bumpy road.

And like you I was in love. I am open to the idea that I was not. But so far, the explanations aren't convincing.

I don't where there's much point in anyone telling you weren't in love..

sounds like quite the futile powerstruggle to me...

a good diversion to roll around on ones tongue over and over...with no real conclusion...

but logistically it was love with tons of restrictions....

cant just drop everything and go to the other.....when needed or desired...

to many restraints
to many rules
to many confinements....

I think in an affair you have bits and pieces of the whole package of love....

but mostly I say....

so what...
if it was love...

loves not enough..
it's not the end all be all problem solver....

it doesnt' make give more importance or value to anything...

love is not all you ever need...

if it was poeple would marry their beagles....
casue they sure can be lovable..

arkie

but logistically it was love with tons of restrictions....


So true. Thanks for the reminder.

I remember when my OP would muse out loud in admiration that I was the perfect man, I would remind her: "No, the perfect man would be available. Which ultimately is what you need."