dude....you fell back to the 3rd page...whats up with that

the word for today is.....slacker.....stop watching Oprah and get to postin.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hmm well I tried to meet the wife at the dog park for some PLAN A, time. I was early and looked great. She showed up a little pre-occupied. While she was there she received 2 calls. We hung out and played with the dog. At the end of the time at the park, we walked back to the cars. This time was a little more awkward then the last time. We had a short time where we talked about our feelings and how things were not what either of us wanted. I explained that I didn't want our old life back, I wanted to build a new life. She was still upset about the things I have done, to break up the affair. She doesn't understand that it wasn't to hurt her. So we drove off a little uneasy. I called her to tell her I didn't want to leave our night on a bad note and that I wanted her and her sister to have a great Thanksgiving. She turned it around on me and we ended up talking about our feelings for an hour. I know that in PLAN A I am not supposed to talk relationship, so in one way it was a failure, but she is worried that she could never come back to the relationship because "I would own her, because of the affair" I tried to reassure her that I just wanted to build a new life, not hold the old one over her head. I also found out she and the OM where in contact as early as a week ago. I am getting advice from a helpful friend to move to PLAN B. Is that where I should be looking to go? Or should I hang in there with PLAN A through the holidays?

If you are up to it, keep up the Plan A for awhile. Also let her know that you will NOT hold the A against her.

You might want to ask her if everything could be more wonderful than ever before, would she prefer to be married to you. That is one of the things the Harleys say to ask.

I just read a great email from my childhood friend and I thought I would post it here. I know it might be a little strange, but it made me relax a little.

"Like Robert Plant once said, "Ramble on."

Ya know...

One thing I learned about fighting for love is if the person strayed, it's because they are incomplete. It's not you. As much as it feels like it's you, it's them.

They need to find what makes them happy and the only reason someone does that is themselves. If you made them unhappy she would have divorced you, or told you so.

When someone cheats, it's because they only feel good about themselves by getting something extra. At least that's my take on it.

Being in music, I've spent a lot of time away from home playing shows and ****** and I've never cheated, but I've had more than a few willing ladies.

It's just not my style, but while I was being faithful, my partner was replacing me with someone else.

It's not about you first. Remember that. It's about them not feeling good about themselves and for what ever reason attention from someone outside of their circle makes them feel important or loved or cherished.

I know you, and I know you are a very sensitive loving person. I can't imagine you wouldn't treat her with affection and admire her. So the only reason I can see if she feels incomplete and she feels like she needs to be wanted and lusted after by someone else.

She might not know it, you might not know it, but behaviour is so complex and motivation even more so. I'm not saying her surgery or cancer did this, but I've read about people with tumors in their brain behaving one way and once removed changing personalities completely.

Disease and illness makes us change. Especially a brush with death or the big "C" I had a cyst removed from my back and the doctor told me I was a month away from being potentially paralyzed because it was scaring around my spinal column

Just knowing I was close to being really ****** up for life changed my mode of thinking. I changed my depressive state I had been in for years, because I realized, I was just waiting to die, and I was so close to being crippled and wanting to die. I knew I didn't want that. I was being selfish and wallowing in my own misery.


What you need to do is spend time away from her for a while.

Talk to yourself. Have conversations out loud.

Then once you know what you are feeling, tell her, and let her respond.

You might not like it, and you might not want to, but the worst thing in life to me if going through a traumatic emotional episode without closure.

Do it for yourself. Don't worry about her. She has already told you through actions that she doesn't deserve your trust, so don't trust her.

You still love her, because you hurt.

You don't have to accept her. That's different.



It doesn't matter how old we are. We still behave like idiots. We still cry because things don't go our way.

Life is long.

This is now.

Tomorrow is another day.


When you come back this way I hope to see you. You are more my brother than my own.

I saw him at his wedding and we talked for 30 seconds. That's it. in 10 years I got 30 seconds.

Cherish every moment you have with someone you love and never expect it to last forever. When you do that you start to treat things without gratitude."

Well I guess that email didn't strike a chord with anyone else, but it felt like he was on track.

I had a great Thanksgiving. I called my WW on Thanksgiving, to wish her a Happy Thanksgiving and that her and her sister have a great time together. She didn't wish me a Happy Thanksgiving she just asked, "I thought we were going to talk when you got, back. I don't understand why you are checking on me." She is very paranoid that everything I do is to check on her. If I ask about her friends, or how her day was, or if she went shopping it is all to check on her. She seems very paranoid, that everything I do has an ulterior motive. I sent her parents an Email to wish them a Happy Thanksgiving and she was pissed that I did it so that they would pressure her to get back together with me. Is there a reason all of my PLAN A efforts are being misconstrued? I am really trying to be a better man, and she is telling me everything I do to be better is wrong? Is this a fairly normal thing? Is it because she is trying to protect her affair. I guess I should just do the right things and let her figure out for herself that I am sincere.

Ryan.

You are doing fine. Her reactions are normal.

The long conversations are good. It's plan a...just don't try to teach her and speak minimally about your "feelings" because she doesn't care much right now except how they relate to her. Let her ramble on for as long as you can keep her talking. Planting some seeds when you can.

Mr. Wondering

Update:

Well we had been talking a little here and there about small things, we would always come to an impass about money and working on the marriage. We were talking about Trust issues and how we both needed to rebuild our trust for each other. I told her I can't believe what she is saying (For months she has been saying she isn't talking to him) and that I needed some action to prove that.

She got upset that she should have to prove it so I told her that I was done and she could do what ever she wanted. I hung up on her (something I haven't done in 10 years) I expected that to be one of the last times I talked to her. She called me back 10 minutes later crying that she couldn't show proof that she wasn't talking to him because she was.

She tells me that they don't have a future, he has 50/50 custody with his kids in NY and we live in DC. She says he isn't going to leave his kids and job to be with her, and she isn't going to leave her job to be with him????

She also mentioned that all of the nice things that I do for her makes her feel very guilty. She thinks that I am doing them to "buy" her back. She also kept asking me why I love her, she couldn't understand.

At this point I really don't know what to do? I was thinking PLAN B, but someone mentioned that without kids, and lots of freedom in the marriage that PLAN B, could be a disaster. My PLAN A is weak, at best because she wants to talk business all the time. I don't know if once all of the business is taken care of if she will just throw me aside? Do I try to beat her to the punch with a dark PLAN B? or do I keep doing nice things for her, even though she told me it makes her feel guilty and uncomfortable?

Ryan.

are you at work or home today?

Work. And it sucks ;-) Just kidding I love my new job.

Ryan.

Who told you this.....

Ok here is how I see you have been giving her attention and been at her beck and call like a love sick puppy dog....she knows what to do to get you to faulter and do what SHE wants.....but yet she is still "secretly" talking to OM

Sweetie it's time to STOP catering to her......she needs to realize that the loving support she has been getting isn't going to be there if she continues the way she has been...She need to hit that rock bottom before she can go the right path.With you holding her up that will never happen. If you go to plan B and OM isn't willing to fufill her EN of being with her....if what she said is true....she will realize she has no support....because if you comtinue the way you do and she "loves" OM and still communicates with him....you all will go nowhere. because you will be giving her the fix she needs to get by and she will continue to talk with him and get her fix from him.

I disagree and think you need plan B....didn't Jennifer mention that already? My damn stick is ready and I am poking you with it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Ryan:

This is your sitch in a nutshell:

"She got upset that she should have to prove it so I told her that I was done and she could do what ever she wanted. I hung up on her (something I haven't done in 10 years) I expected that to be one of the last times I talked to her. She called me back 10 minutes later crying that she couldn't show proof that she wasn't talking to him because she was."

Yes, you KNOW shes talking to him, and SHE knows that he ain't leaving. Serious Plan A time. BE the HUSBAND she knew and KNOWS you can be again.

The hanging up? Perfect for the effect. That's Plan B.

But you have this thing on the ropes. Careful NOW.

Not for long. About a month, thru the Holidays. Be available, but not Puppy Dog.

Let her KNOW that you can be the one.

I'd have more but I gotta run!

LG

TOTALLY AGAINST PLAN B HERE.

Plan B is NOT a strategy to scare or manipulate your spouse back to you. In this situation, in particular, she HAS a job and can function very well independently of you. She's quite capable and after a few weeks months of withdrawal she'll accept life without you.

Plan B is for when you can't handle the ongoing affair any longer and NEED yourself to bottle up your remaining love for her for the day the affair runs it's course.

Your Plan A time has been limited but you can see the results in her communications with you already. I see an opportunity to negotiate MORE Plan A time and attempt to get her to agree to move home or at least go no contact with OM as you are the ONLY real opportunity for happiness (she clearly stated OM is NOT an option).

Plan B maybe later. If and when you catch wind of her going to visit OM again in spite of a few good weeks of Plan A. Plan B will be more effective if preceeded by a great Plan A and again, is done to protect YOU and not manipulate her.

You can be firm and tough in Plan A. You can "open the cage door" and release her in the Dobsonesque way prescribed in "Love Must be Tough" but you don't have to shut her out to win her back.

The ultimate question is "how are YOU doing" or "How do you FEEL"? I don't think you are near done with this marriage and you've got quite a bit of love remaining to pull your spouse from this mess.

Plan A....KEEP TALKING.

Mr. Wondering

Take MyWifeIlove's example....

He successfully Plan A'ed his wife while she was actually living with OM.

You have a one big advantage....OM lives far away and they can't lovebust the crap out of you by continuing to be in physical contact in your face on a daily basis. The phone calls and emails, though hurtful, are not as destructinve and humiliating as constant evenings and nights shacked up together.

It hurts...but you can endure them IF you are getting the opporunity to Plan A in the meantime.

Mr. Wondering

he's been doing that and the one thing she always asks about is money....all she wants is for him to provide for her but she doesn't want to be with him....OM is divorced now and besides his children....has nothing to really hold him back....I really think he needs to plan B her....he's been supporting her and all I see is her using him for her own advantage......Ryan is going to get hurt if he keeps putting in this effort and I don't see her budging.....she is a spoiled princess who needs a dose of reality.....(sorry ryan but thats how I see her with what she has done)

NY and DC....they can drive.....they arn't THAT far away....if she is STILL in contact with him i doubt they arn't seeing each other.....

Ryan is ALREADY hurt...

This "effort" is for him as much as it is for her. IF this doesn't work out in the long run he will forever be able to look back and have confidence in his actions that he did all he could to save it. I'm not recommending YEARS here but merely a couple months to see if he can SAVE his wife...the woman HE vowed to love, honor and protect...in good times and bad.

HE honors HIS vows by at least trying and he'll win either way this turns out.

The additional "hurt" is worth the effort...either way.

Mr. Wondering

sorry Mr...but I don't agree I have heard alot about this whole thing and believe with the most recent happenings.....it's time to go to plan B....first she wasn't talking to him....now she is.....and she still loves him......he is a free man and could be with her now.....the addiction is still on going and strong....Ryan was lied to about this and that gave him hope.....he has held out for awhile now.....and put up a great effort and fight....but I think he needs to protect himself...emotionally AND financially from whats going on....I have said in the past things regarding what would happen and I was right i was so dead on right it was scarey........She is being supported to much that it allows her to sit on the fence....she is a big needer of emotional support.....she needs to loose the support on one side to realize she needs it. It's called a wake up call from her little fantasy dream....I have read many cases here.....normally I wouldn't advocate it but I believe jennifer has already told him to go to B......I agree with that.

SIHW,

IF Jennifer told him Plan B...then certainly do it. She's had one on one time with Ryan and IS the professional.

If not...I disagree with you.

No biggie...Ryan has conflicting advice and he's a man that can and will choose the proper course for himself.

He'll have my/our support either way. There really isn't a wrong course of action here.

Mr. Wondering

Ryan, I see your WW's breakdown on the phone as a highly positive signal...but DO NOT expect her to give in to her sadness and move back with you this time next week, or next month, or in July. Do you understand what I'm saying? Pardner, this isn't a computer game and neither one of you can skip all the uncomfortable, sad, painful intermediate steps in the journey. Everything must proceed at its own pace and there's a lot of work left to do.

But...that she is beginning to understand how hopeless her situation has become is an encouraging sign. I can't think of any emotion other than painful sadness that will bring her to the point of recognizing her place is with you. Regretfully, that's how things work in real life. In her situation, Ryan, feeling guilty is a healthy sentiment for her to have. It may indicate a basic sense of integrity (which she suppressed in order to betray the marriage) is reasserting itself. The conflict she’s feeling is actually good news. Your job, as hard as it sounds, is to increase her discomfort in the short term by making yourself the best alternative for her to choose.

Stay with what you're doing, Ryan. Man up! It seems when you draw a line and don't retreat, it provokes a reaction from your WW. Now...don't you dare become combative, and do not look for opportunities to be confrontational for its own sake, but don't be afraid of setting and enforcing your boundaries either. Being a doormat is decidedly not attractive.

A final thought: be wary of accepting her premise that you have any particular need to demonstrate your trustworthiness to her. You’re not the one who betrayed her; it’s the other way around. Typically, what WS’s mean by saying this is that you have betrayed their trust by exposure -- and that’s not a valid point. The exposure was a product of, and was necessary because of her betrayal, period. Don’t fall for the babble-speak, okay?

Hang in there, Ryan.

All I am saying is look...he's been supporting her....sending her flowers giving gifts calling....and all that has done IS push her away.....once he hung up on her and told her to end it.....She slightly and i say SLIGHTLY realizes some of her emotional support will be gone...she called and confessed BUT says it's still over and she is in love with OM......I feel plan B would be better to make her realize that this loving good man who's been supporting her who has been there for her through all this....might be gone she will wake up and come home....like the saying you don't know what you have until it's gone.

I unfortunatly haven't been in recovery my marriage ended....so I am no expert....But I know what created the wake up call that was needed when some effort was made to save our marriage. But by then it was too late.