I am writing this as a kind of therapy for my soul. I’m sure there have been other threads like this before, but I just wanted to submit it myself so I can feel like I’m not alone.

It’s a list of all the fog I’ve received from my WS. Since March of this year I’ve heard these from her, some of them multiple times. I’d be interested if there are any others I haven’t heard that others have.

Pre-d day

“We’re just friends”

“You’re making a big deal out of nothing”

“You know I’m not happy in my job and he’s the only one I can talk to”

Me- “what does marriage mean to you?” WS – “Trust, fidelity, love” (this was 15 minutes after she returned from spending an evening at his apartment – ouch!)

“You’re wearing me out with your suspicions. You’re driving me towards him with your jealousy”.

“I love you, but I’m not in love with you”

“You’re a good person, but I just don’t want to have the perfect person come along and miss that chance”

“If we wait until our youngest son is out of high school he’ll be ok”

“It’s just lunch”.

“It’s just some drinks with the guys”

WS – “My period is heavier than it’s ever been this month” Me – “it’s not a miscarriage is it”? WS – “How would it be a miscarriage”? (I’ve had the snip). Me – “the thought went through my head with how much time you’ve been spending with OM” WS – I can’t believe you would even think that”

“I can’t remember the last time I wanted you to touch me”

“You’re a controlling person. It’s not bad, that’s just who you are”

“I’m a person too”

“I need more me time”

“I love our new location, I feel such a freedom here”


“You’re asking me to give up my freedom”

“I love you like a friend”



Post d-day

“We’ve had a good marriage, but I’m not giving him up”

Me – “do you see a future with this guy”? WS – “We don’t talk about that”

Me – “do you think you’re going to live happily ever after with this guy, he’s married with kids also, he’s not going to leave them, he’s just using you” WS – “I’m not going to answer that”

Me – “would you be the happiest if you were in love with the father of your children”? WS – “I’m not going to answer that, but I’m not giving him up”

“You’re a good dad, good provider, make me feel safe, make me feel secure, make me feel comfortable, but I’ve never been “in love” with you.”

WS - “I want to spend a day and night by myself so I can clear my head” Me – If you’re going to see him I’d appreciate it if you would at least have the guts to tell me” WS – “I’m not going to see him, I don’t even know what he’s doing” Me – “Why? What happened”? WS – “He decided to move on when you found out” Me – “That probably hurts. I’m genuinely sorry you’re feeling bad (that is the truth). WS – “Whatever”. WS then went and spent the night with him.

“I know it would be best for everyone involved for us to put our marriage back together, but I’m not giving him up”

Any MBers out there heard any other good ones?

WS to OM- "If you run him over with a truck, it would be thrilling to me"

WS- I asked Jinny if I said that and she said no.

WS- You manipulated that tape, I never said that.

WS- I feel I can say anything on the phone for fear of being invaded. I NEED my privacy.

WS- God is trying to get your attention, you did something really bad to get shot. (she was talking about my exposure)

It's all out of the "Wayward Spouse's Handbook." Nothing that comes out of their mouths has any relationship to rational thought. Here's a thread about the (fictional) handbook.

[i][color:"red"] [b]WS Handbook[/b] [/i][/color]

Ive said this before.........I dont believe in the fog crap. That just gives the wayward spouse an excuse to continue or rationalize what they were/are doing and to justify it.

The WW can waltz in and say......"I was crazy at the time, I was in a fog". I say BS. Everyone yells temporary insanity when they are busted. Sorry, but that is how I feel about it.

SO, I agree.

SO & MEDC,

Me too!

Whether you believe it or not, many of us have witnessed it so we know they do say it. Now the fact that it is described as 'fog' or 'fogspeak' shows that while it might be said, it isn't try nor is it logical. Therefore the 'fog' description.

Does the WS often spit out such crap from their mouths? Yes.... often. Is it OK? Of course not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

How to handle it is the key. How to keep you from being pulled into that fog and start babbling like a fool..... is also important.

Nothing worse than to see a BS babble like a WS (aka: denial). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

The 'fog" is not an EXCUSE, it is a state of mind that is created to justify the unjustifiable with the end result being a warped reality. It justifies nothing; it is not the equivalent of temporary insanity, a real mental illness. If I say a drunk is out of his mind and is falling down drunk, that is not an EXCUSE, but a simple statement of FACT. It is not an excuse. There IS NO EXCUSE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Can y'all really read some of the stupid lies, rationalizations and excuses manufactured by a wayward mind and not see evidence of FOG?

Here's a good one I heard the last time I spoke with my STBXH...

"Remember to be loving and forgiving..."

coming from a child-molester... that's rich stuff!

I pretty well believe-

fog is a pretty crappy word

everything we say and do , no matter what...we are ultimatley responsible for.

even if we do believe affairs are like addictions-at some point we need to be accountable.

and when this fog crap comes across-

my word of advice is-draw the line.

keep yourself from harm.

Don't wishy wash it as it is the expected.

ShOw No FeAr

Later

Max

EXACTLY.

This fog speak is not an excuse as Melody points out. It is the BS that WS's spew forth to try to justify their actions. It gives them a rationalization in their minds why it is ok to lie, cheat and hurt everyone that they claim to care about.

My WS claims she hasn't ever really loved me, takes off her wedding rings and that in her mind emotionally divorces us so she can feel better about what she is doing.

Fog speak is the BS coming from the mouth of a person who would have never (at least in my case) said those things in their "right" mind, but now because of the A, those things become a means to an end, which is a continuation of an A which they know is wrong, but can't see with their own eyes the hurt it is causing, hence the FOG.

hopeforus,

it is not a state of mind

in my mind

it is a protective mind

it is not sick, disabled nor disfunctional

its clever.

clever means to me that it is thinking

protection.

basic and primal

Call it fog if you wish.

But this one ( that means me)evolved

We are accountable

Later

Max

Max, are you trying to make a poem? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Again, the fog is not an EXCUSE, it is a DESCRIPTION of a classic wayward state of mind that we see on here every day. Dr. Harley uses this term often to describe the wacked out state of mind of a WS. It is DR HARLEY who coined the term, not some wayward who was looking for a rationalization. A wayward will DENY he is in the fog.

It IS fog and it IS justifying.

If a WS says, I've never loved you or rewrites a marital history are they speaking the truth? Or are they rewriting it to justify what they're doing?

Fog is the "justification" WS' use for what they're doing. A lot of it is so ridiculous that it's laughable. But are they lying? Yes. To whom? Everyone, including themselves.

Dr. Harley's term "fog" is right on the mark. My FWH has even said that he felt like he was in a fog or a trance and even HE couldn't believe some of the stuff that came out of his mouth.

P.S. But I'd never call it clever. LOL

I have to agree with princessmeggy here. My wife is getting ready to leave in 2 weeks and she is walking around the house in one of 2 states; either mad at me or depressed. I have been happy as a clam because well, I am kind of looking forward to her leaving. I am looking forward to an end to the chaos and destruction.
But anyway, a few days ago I was cleaning out a closet and I found a bunch of her books along with a 'Should I Stay or Go' pdf in which she filled out the answers at the end of each chapter. One of the chapters asked a question about have you seen a therapist and she answered yes (which is true) then it asked 'how long' to which she answered 'years'. This is untrue, she saw the therapist for about 7 months. Then it asked 'what was their recommendation?' To this she replied 'to leave'. This is also untrue. When she went to an all day womens therapy class, the therpaist told her 'you should end the relationship with OM, get into therapy with you spouse, and then make the decision in a few months'. She also told me that is what her IC said. But on this paper (which she just filled out) she lies. Why is that? It is not as if anyone but herself was suppossed to see it. Since then she has decided the marriage is over and she is leaving. Besides FOG, what other explanation is there for this?

The fog is NOT justifying. The WAYWARD is justifying the affair, they are not saying "I am justified by the fog."

The term "fog" is not used by waywards, but by DR HARLEY; not to JUSTIFY, but to EXPLAIN. The mental state of FOG is not a justification, it is a description of his mental state. While IN THE FOG, the WS ATTEMPTS to justify the affair, but that is not the same thing as saying that the FOG *IS* a justification. There IS no justification.

No disrespect to Dr. Harley, but you cant put a clinical term on a waywards decision to have an affair. Its like saying.....I was in a fog when I stole that car. A conscience decision is a conscience decision.

I can almost go with "Fog" in a one night stand.....but, "Fog Talk" in a long term.......(anything over a week or two) affair is just plane garbage to me.

Oh, and I had an EX that had a couple of affairs.......so Ive been there.

I guess "Fog talk" just sounds like a justification for the WS actions. At least to me.

God Bless

One more thing............I hear lots of folk on this board say its the FOG, its the FOG TALK.....how can all of the WWs have the right to have this fog thing?? Is it like alcoholism? Im trying to understand this more. With all of the affairs going on now adays......if someone hears the so called "FOG" from someone.....how can they claim the same "FOG" if they have an affair?

Ahhhhh.........my head hurts now. Just looking for some answers.

'Fog' seems to me a great way to describe the state of confusion that someone feels when they've got into the habit of fudging moral decisions. When you start compromising basic principles, you lose all your compass bearings.

TA

Isnt that just poor decision making? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />