Hi Sinkingin,

Can I ask a few questions?

Your fears about how the children will react to separation or D, what are they based on?

Your previous IC or MC experience, were they in line with Dr. Harley's MB concepts? Getting the right support c/b a critical piece to helping you reach the level where you can make good decisions for yourself and your family.

Put this situation outside your realm and take a look at what you would say if a good friend or sister came to you for advice and they presented these same scenarios. What would you say to help them?

Please consider reading the following books: SAA (Surviving an Affair by Harley), HNHN (His Needs/Her Needs by Harley) and a book by Drs. Henry Cloud and John Townsend, called Boundaries in Marriage. Here's a short blurp from the book:

"....Boundaries, show couples how to apply the 10 laws of boundaries that can make a real difference in relationships. They help husbands and wives understand the friction points or serious hurts and betrayals in their marriage?and move beyond them to the mutual care, respect, affirmation, and intimacy they both long for."

Take a look at those books, you can even check them out from the library and let us know what points you have appreciated. If possible consider calling Steve H from MB for a phone counseling session. If you read SAA & HNHN along with taking the En questionnaire (even if you take it and he doesn't), you can get the best from a session or 2 with Steve. He will help you see HOW to get a recovery plan going for you and may, just maybe help your H get one that will benefit the entire family, especially you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care.
L.

Thank you, I will go to library today, and I have my first appt. with a counselor today also! I will let you know how it goes.

SKGN,

How was the MC session? Were you able to find the book?

L.

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Well,
Here I am again...the worst MB student in history!!! I never did do anything that everyone suggested, I did try, but just never could accept what I needed to accept. I never got the books because I never felt like there was a time (and still don't) where he was willing to work on our marriage. He says it will be fine, and it will all be o.k. and he just knows that we can make it through this. He is cake-eating. I cannot beleive how much time has passed. I really can't believe that I have allowed myself to live like this for almost a year now. I have stood up so many times, he always had a different stradegy. At times it would be to get upset, lash out, get angry, depression, and threaten to harm himself...in the end 10 months has passed. I finally ordered a detailed bill from cell-phone. Just confirmed what I know, and what he has told me. He tells me that I think it is more than it is, well, I knew differnt and I confirmed that. It may just still be emotional right now, but none the less he still will not agree to not talk to her. He says that he cares for her and as much as I may not want to hear it, she has been nothing but kind to him since they first met. That's nice right....then if I talk about splitting up it is he doesn't want to give-up his house, his kids, me. He says he loves me and can't live without me etc. He says he will be able to get himself out of this depression. He knows that with me is where he want's to be and he will get to a place where he can give her up. Ahhhhh...I am just a regular person. I can't believe I am living this soap opera. It makes me soooo mad. I am so not the soap opera kind of girl!!!!

I am so sorry to hear where you are at. I want you to know that I was there too. It is easy to beat yourself up for not being stronger...but don't. It's pointless.

You have to get to the point where you get mad enough to DEMAND that this change. I went through it for two years and then the final straw was a lie that I caught them in. I denied that it was more forever...just because I didn't want to know.

Well, it ended and then it started again because I didn't take it seriously. I hadn't found MB. I thought if we worked together on stuff it would get better on its own. I was wrong.

My H was cake-eating for 2 years and then had an underground A for another year after that.

People here can give you advice. They can tell you what steps to take to recover your M. But until you are upset enough about your current situation, you will not follow it. As mean as it sounds, you are allowing this to continue. You need to get to the point where you decide that this is NOT what your marriage is going to look like and that your H needs to make drastic changes to his behavior, or you will not continue to be married to him.

Good luck. I'm rooting for you to find that last straw and get mad enough to stand up for yourself.

HTM

Sinking,

I too was in your shoes. Ex-H moved out for a while but I let him come home too soon. After that, I lived in a lonely marriage for about two years before I called it quits and we separated for good. I feel bad for my kids. Also, I have to live with the guilt of ending the marriage. Ex-H wanted to stay. He didn't want to give up OW, but he didn't want to give up the family either. Had I done it differently I may have been happily married by now. Instead, I am single, my kids are shuttled between two houses and my once comfortable financial state is no longer. I used to be a SAHM who worked when she wanted to, now I work FT because I have to.

And here is the worst: EXH IS MARRIED TO OW!! OW is the kids' stepmistress!

Sinking, you are at the point where the one who is most dangerous to the survival of your marriage is not the WS or the OW, but the BS. Yep, YOU! I have been there. I reached the breaking point. Had I initiated Plan B, like my MC suggested, maybe I could have saved some love and respect for H. But, it went away. You are headed there unless you change the situation.

I suggest you read all about Plan B, and understand that we all had the same excuses...it isn't possible, what about kids, etc. Then read the Plan B success stories. Get the courage up to write the letter and stick to the plan.

Best of luck.

I remember you Sinking.

You had some of the very best people of MB advising and coaching you, but you refused to do anything to help yourself.

Your marriage will just dissolve away. Your husband will never get to a place where he is willing to give her up. More likely she will start pressuring him to give you up. And she will win, because you refuse to fight.

How's that been working for you?

Let us know when you're ready to follow a PLAN. A true plan that will either save your marriage or save YOU.

You have to stop using FEELINGS to guide you, and be willing to follow the PLANS.

And by the way, Sinking, one of the reasons it is so frustrating to post to you is because you have one of the most HOPEFUL situations and yet you are your own worst enemy.

I have rarely seen a situation where the husband is so BONDED, and adament that he doesn't want to lose his family.
If you would only use these plans, you could very easily stop his cake-eating.

And yet you have just tolerated this situation for a year, while he grows more and more attached and bonded to OW.

sigh....

Thank you all for responding. It is nice to hear that other people have been here. I know my situation is frustrating...believe me I know!!!! I have so many times dug deep and said in 100 different ways both directly and indirectly that this had to end and that I would not live this way!!!! When was doing his threatening stage when he would say I am just going somewhere else...I don't know where etc. I got to the point where I would say..."Then go" The sucker always comes back. Now it's the depression thing. I am scared for him, but honestly I am so numb to emotion at this point I am only so upset when he threatens. I obviously tell him that he could never possibly abandon his children. Their lives would be ruined. This weekend he went fishing and he told me not to worry he would be back...I believed him so when one of his friends called sounding a little concerned that he had gone out to the river by himself I really felt he was fine. Well apparently what happened is that he and "she" were texting and then his phone got wet she was concerned and called his best friend and asked him to go check on him. By the way I have known this friend for 20 years...after he checked on him he called her back and told her that she need to walk away right now! His best friend also called his mom when he couldn't find him...so now his mom and step-dad know. Haven't heard from them yet but I'm sure they will have a lot to say to him. I'm not sure I can live with whispering behind my back for the rest of my life if we were to stay together. Anyway we were IM at work and I told him he had to cut off all communication with her. He told me that in his current depression now was not the time to be offering up ultimatums. I can become a consultant by now when it comes to being straight forward and saying what I need to say...It just never does the trick.

This is what he says when I suggest that we seperate or that we live here seperate to work as a team to raise our children. I told him at least then I wouldn't feel so hurt every moment. I could just accept that we are seperated. He says that he absolutely knows he needs to say goodbye to her and that everytime he gets ready to do it, something comes up that he feels like he needs to help her through. He says he has compasion for her. He says he does care for her and he wishes he didn't. Remember he tells me that they have niot been seeing each other. (gaurded with that one) He says that people have told him that your internal voice is supposed to be from the "real" you. He says that he feels that he needs to be with me and that is why he has never left. He says he still loves me and that is still in love with me. I have told him that I think he can never get over his feelings for her until he just goes to be with her. I truly believe that is the case.

It's all wayward fog babble. He is JUSTIFYING why he should be allowed to continue an extramarital affair. Don't buy it.

You say that straight talk doesn't work with him. It's because you don't back it up with something. If I tell my kids they will have time-out if they hit and then they hit and I do nothing but warn them again...they know that I don't mean it. He is banking on that.

You need to tell him NC period. And if not, then you need to ask him to leave until he will comply. YOU are choosing to allow this woman in your marriage. Believe me, I've been there. He will tell you anything he can think of to get you to let him keep her. Look at him as a child and you will see that he is just conning you to get his way.

Follow through. Straight talk means nothing if you don't back it up.

Sinkin,

As Mel would say: you are a volunteer, not a victim.

YOU have allowed this to go on for a year.

YOU have the power to stop it.

WH is manipulating you with threats about his mental health (and that's all they are is threats)...knowing you are WEAK and will not challenge him.

Where does it stop? YOU are the only one that can stop it.

Will you?

yes...I will stop it.

Sink,

By now he knows your threats are empty. You may talk tough, but you do nothing to back it up.

You are losing his respect this way.

He's right -- ultimatums won't work. You need BOUNDRIES.
And you need to be prepared to back up your boundries with actions.

No more threats. No more tough talk. No more warnings.

Set your boundries. If he continues to talk to her -- what will YOU do? Stop trying to control HIS actions, and start controlling YOURS.

And don't let him control you with his anger, depression or any other tactics that are designed to keep you living in this status quo limbo land.

I think you need to skip Plan A. I think you've met his needs and been a good partner.
Check yourself for angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements etc. and stop those. Be loving, kind and firm!

Expose this affair. Stop being ashamed of it. It is not your shame...its theirs. Get help from those who care about your family and want to see you SAVE IT! Expose to everyone, even the kids.

And start preparing for Plan B.

You REALLY need to read up on this stuff. Have you ever gotten any of the books?

People here can sound harsh and frustrated, but they have the best intentions. It is hard to watch someone suffer as you are when you have the ability to stop it. For me, it is equal to watching someone stay in a physically abusive relationship when everyone around them is offering help to get them out. An A can be devastating to your family but also to you.

You say you will stop. What is your plan? Figure it out. Write it down if you have to. PLAN IT OUT and then STICK TO IT.

He says now isn't the time for ultimatums...so sorry, but HE is bringing this on himself. He will be fine.

Look at him as an addict. Just substitute OW for cocaine. Would you let your H continue to use because he's depressed? Would you let him convince you that he will stop eventually but he just needs it right now? When you look at it that way, it becomes clear.

He is not blameless, but he is addicted. If you want to save your M, you must insist that he stop his addiction. He will react like any addict would...anger, manipulation, begging, more manipulation, more anger...but keep in mind that he is acting out of a need for his addiction, not as your H. You are not in it to "save him" but in a sense, you have to insist he save himself before you are able to recover.

I agree completely with Lexxy about the exposure and shame. This is something that HE did. People will not look down on YOU for it. I was worried about that as well, but the people who couldn't support me while I was willing to fight for my M were people that didn't really know me or my H. My family may not have agreed or understood, but they supported me...and H...in recovery.

You are not guilty in this. Hold your head up. You are in a battle and you must expose this to the world and then stand firm when it reflects back. Some will not understand. Dismiss them. What do they really know? Focus on your mission...to save your M.

You can do it, but you must have a plan.

o.k. just an example of the mind games going on here...he says..."I think I might go out for a little while...I don't mean with her...she is having a sleep-over with her kids." So obviously they have talked!!! He has never said they won't. So then he says..."look, I've never gone to any of the things she invites me to, and she invites me all the time. The other day she invited me to the so and so's fourth of July party...and I didn't go I have never said yes." Wow...I am the crazy one right...? He says see "when I try and tell you things to make you feel better...it just makes it worse." Duhhh!!! I said that she is a constant factor in my life that I don't even know anything about and it affects every part of my life.

Am I crazy? I feel like I'm losing my mind!

The other day I had my first real good news in 10 months...Sha may be putting her house on the market and moving. Maybe not to far, but at least is is across state lines so I may not have to deal with her at football and basketball, and school functions and right up till graduation...Isn't that funny...my son is only 10 and I was already dreading seeing her sitting there at his graduation. Even if my H and I don't make it, It will be much better if she isn't right here and our kids aren't really good friends.

Please somebody tell me if really I am crazy...I live and breath this...I am lashing out and losing my temper all the time.....I did go to counceling for a while, but she can't teach me to learn to deal with this....Isn't that right? I don't want my kids to thingk I am just an angry frustrated person....Maybe I am just that. I start to feel even if this is ever resolved...maybe I am just not a happy person anymore...