You wrote this on 10/19 (?I think that's the right date)

The part I want to address is where you say .."then wonder on back to me"

He will NOT be able to wander on back if you stick to your guns and do not break plan B UNLESS he is willing to commit to your conditions for recovery.

There is hope, but you must know that there are no guarantees. You have been at this for a long time. Why not follow MB's and give this your BEST SHOT for recovery?

Withdrawal is an ugly beast, and can break those who have weak foundations. You need to wait until your WH is ready to fully drop the WAYWARD and get on track with MB and you.

I asked my FWH ALL of those questions that you have and MORE, just to get "maybe's" and " I guess so's" and so many more vague answers.

Let me ask you this, if you were dead set on anything, would you respond to a question about it with "I guess so"? I would seriously doubt it.

When you took your wedding vows, did you say "I guess so"

I bet you said "I DO" and so did HE.

Stop asking him questions, begin looking for his actions. Right now, he's not DOING much, which doesn't speak of someone with real direction.

Because I've been at this for a long time, are you saying that there is probably less hope for us or more since we haven't given up our marriage so far? Deep down I think my H is really struggling with this. I guess that's why I've hung in here for so long. I see him cry when he leaves, I tell him he doesn't look like a man the wants to leave his family, he cries more. My H is very proud and somewhat stubborn. If he gets angry with me he will say things like I guess so to a divorce. If he thinks I'm moving on he will just go along with it so as to not make himself look desperate or whatever. It's hard to explain but If I say lets get a divorce he will say if that's what you want. Even if deep down he says I need more time to make sure this is the right thing to do, or if he just doesn't want one...he would never step up and tell me that. It's so hard for him to speak about his true feelings instead of making up an answer that sounds right.

I'm not saying anything about your 'odds' when I say that you've been at this a long time. I'm saying that it's time for YOU to take the lead and follow a plan.

If I had found MB in the first year, I may have avoided an ENTIRE year of the crap that I faced--eerily similar to what you are experiencing right now.

If he is struggling, he will HAVE to find his own way, while you are in Plan B. He does not want to be without you, that is pretty obvious.

I know you are looking for any vestige of hope that we can offer here. We cannot guarantee that Plans A/B will work to save your marriage, but they give you the BEST SHOT at it. Plan B is a violent shove off of the fence, with no cake to partake of. You have given him a letter that says that you two can eat cake, for the rest of your lives, together, but you are no longer baking for him, as long as he is wayward.

Stick by that. Don't waiver, for you will experience more false recoveries this way.

Begin reading about boundaries, what they are, and how to enforce them.

Let this one thing sink in...you can ONLY control yourself, noone else. Get to work on you, focus on you, find yourself again.

Plan B can give you the much needed time to devote to becoming the best you that you can be, as well as give you time to gather strength if recovery is to take place. If it does, you will need it (strength of mind and body) to guide your recovery.

You need to do a much darker Plan B. You are having too much contact with your husband. Plan B means NO CONTACT - he shouldn't see you or here from you, and especially not about divorce.

How is your recovery coming? Are you well enough to do some things? If so, I suggest you go spend some time scrubbing the toilets. It will be a much more productive use of your time. Quit thinking about your husband and wondering what is going on.

Affairs almost always end. Go dark.

Listen to the myriads of people who have posted to go DARK, stay DARK.

We have ALL been there; dark. We have all survived the A's.

Use the intermediary, and stop making excuses to contact him, OR the OW for that matter.

Thanks. I know I need to go way darker. It's so hard with the kids. I have been a stay at home mom for over 10 years. It's hard not to say what needs to be done for them (homework due, games, practices) I have done everything for them for years while my H worked. I work PT now but still pick them up everyday from school. WH picks them up out in front of the house when it's his turn to have them. I know if I didn't see him that things would be easier and I won't disect everthing that was said or analyze what he meant and stuff. I just don't know how to get around the kids. When I do see H I try not to LB but then I feel like he thinks our life is OK as it is. My father is the intermediary. H said he didn't want to go through him for things that we can discuss as parents about the kids. Should I get a new intermediary? My father is older and is not dealing well with this at all. He loves my H like a son. Also, we loss my mom the beginning of Sept so I'm not sure that this would only burden him. Would another mediary be OK? I could just have that person drop him a message saying to contact himor her from now on. What do you think. THis is so hard I miss my H and want to talk to him everyday.

You could get another person to do it. If it is hard on your father, why not?

You are allowed to have contact about the kids - but it should be a short email or message. If you have a schedule to go by, you shouldn't need to communicate that much. The problem with contact for the kids is it invariably gets changed to discussing other issues.

In Plan B, you should not be asking if he wants a divorce.

My surgery went well. I'm feeling better now. Was a bit depressed right after, it seems the anesthesia can do that to you. I must say that I'm really glad I had it. I feel like a million. I'm thinking about getting a new job. I work PT but think maybe a fullfilling job might also help me. The job I have now is great for the kids but it's a very lonely job with not a lot of interaction with people. I've been holding off as well because should a D happen I don't know if I want to put myself in a position with a decent paying job etc. I would be due some alimony but I'm not sure if I have a decent job that I would get that. On the other hand I think getting out into the real world would be great for me. I have a great network of friends but am somewhat sheltered because I stayed home for so long. Whatcha think?????

I know I should not be talking about divorce. I get so mad at him sometimes because I feel like he thinks he can move out again with no consequences. I can't believe that he is so insensitive. I guess after I gave him the letter I expected him to come around and try to talk and all, and he really didn't. We spoke of the kids and that's it. He said he was respecting the letter that I gave him. I guess what I really wanted was for him to run back to me, agree to the conditions of the letter and live happily ever after. I didn't allow enough time for everything to sink in.

Well, let's see. Do you have a career in mind? If there is something that you would LOVE to do, and you need more education to do it, I would go back to school and get a degree, certificate, whatever. That way, hubby could pay for some education since you have been a SAHM for so long.

Glad your surgery went well and you are recovering. Hope you can buy some sexy new clothes to show off your new figure!

We all want that, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

I just skimmed through your story, and I think you have reason to hope. (but what do I know?)

Do you have an intermediary? You will get a lot of benefit from a dark Plan B. You are probably still in the "Did it work yet? Is it working? Is the affair ending? Did it work?" phase, where it is very tempting to peek over to the other side and see what's going on.

You wind up breaking your plan B and subjecting yourself to waywardness/FogTalk, and that hurts. It makes you angry and depressed and drains your lovebank and makes you want to quit.

I think in your case you could send him a quick note. "Just to be clear, I choose marriage, not divorce. It is just too painful for me to see you right now when I know that things could be so different between the two of us." Something along those lines--flesh it out a bit.

Then, go dark. And get busy with something. New job, take a class, exercise, new hobby, organize the house . . . something to take your mind off the insanity of what you're going through. Work on you.

If you read some of the threads that SL mentioned you will see the kinds of things that we went through (BugsMom and LilSis are good ones to look at). It's amazing to me how often one of us posts something and another of us says "I feel EXACTLY the same way." It can be hard to read threads sometimes because they are often full of raw emotion, but you will see that other people have endured and felt a lot of the same stuff you are.

SDGuy-

Thanks for your reply. I have read your thread many times, as well as others. When I first came to MB's that all I did. Then one day I had the courage to ask for help. I will be busy with the holidays coming up. Next week is Thanksgivivng! After that I will be getting ready for Christmas. My friends have offered to help my kids and I decorate the outside of the house. My intermediary is my father but I will change that. See a few posts above for that reason. How are things going for you??? I see you too have been in a long Plan B. You are the strong one. Don't forget that. Many times I've had friends say things like just let him go, why would you still want him after what he has done, and at times I agree. Deep down I feel like he needs me more than ever now not to give up on him. It is noble to stand up for your marriage and spouse even when they have caused you so much pain and humiliation. Keep strong.

I'm not sure about the OP in your situation. In mine the OW is nothing like me. I love to cook, value family, keep trim and current with trends and such. My H loves that about me. Part of what made him fall in love with me. He wanted me to stay home because he wanted our boys to have a mom around. (His mom past away when he was only three) He hates to eat out, loves home cooked meals. Funny, the OW does not cook, eats out almost every night, has no children-chose career over family, does not look that great (I'm being nice-why I don't know) (Oh, I'm also very nice!!!!) Just kidding. Really though she is probably the complete opposite of me. What's up with that?????

Believer-

I have a B.S. degree. Just stayed home for so many years I really didn't have chance to climb the latter. Probably wouldn't take long to do that now. I have a hard time putting my kids in camp and stuff during the summer and breaks. They don't like them because they have known different. Thought about teaching. Still undecided. If it was a subject I really loved then it would be great otherwise not sure I wouldn't be doing it for the hours. That doesn't make the best teacher. Thought about going to nursing school. My degree is healthcare related. But, after just losing my mom the hospitals and such are a hard place to go. I don't know what I want to be when I grow up!!!!

I don't know what I want to be when I grow up!!!!


Well, Ani, humor is good!

If you must, resend the PBL, and remain dark. The holidays always kept me busy. I didn't long for my FWH at that time of the year NEARLY as much as I did after the holidays. I was with family and friends and busy busy busy. After that, i began working on my house, cleaning, organizing, finishing work on the bathroom, decorating. It was good for me to be active in that.

What's your degree in? I have a B.S in Microbiology and am now a protein chemist (my studies were mostly in Virology and Molecular Biology). Teaching is something I thought about; takes a lot of patience. You have time, and can use your Plan B to really think this one over.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your mother.

I would still think about going for some more schooling. I really think your husband will be back. In the meantime you can get more credentials. That way you would be preparing for a future, but still be able to be there for your children.

The deeper you go into plan B, the more people around you will urge you to quit. With Plan B comes peace (at least over plan A), but it's not all roses. Jennifer Harley called it trying to survive this period of insanity. Frank Pittman (Private Lies) wrote this:


and that last bit is plan B. But you will still hurt, and people around you will be uncomfortable by that. They will want you to not hurt and think that moving on is the key (maybe it is).

How can I still want to be with someone who has hurt me so much? For me, it comes from learning about how romantic affairs work, what they are and what they are not. Understanding (and believing) the Fog-temporary insanity-addiction part of it. Reading accounts from FWS's here. Recognizing that you're dealing with an alien rather than your spouse, but that your spouse is still in there somewhere and can re-emerge.

When I'm pushed on it by someone who cares about me, I put it this way--look at all these terrible things she has done. These are either the work of someone who is lost in a fog of addiction or someone who is at heart a bad person. When I put it this way, no one thinks that my wife is a bad person--she just couldn't hide it for 15 years. She's lost, and there's no one who can help her. Some people around here are finding out the opposite, though. Mom01592 is one who has discovered that she's married to a bad person, or at least that's how it sounds to me. We had another poster (InHisCare) who found the same thing.

For a while, I was doing the plans for her--as a gift to her, but I ran out of that energy along the way. At some point, her affair will end, and then she will be alone with what she has done. It will be great for her if I'm still around, but she doesn't *need* me. Just like I don't *need* her. There's something disrespectful and co-dependent about that way of thinking. This is clarity that comes with Plan B. I'm responsible for my own happiness. I believe that if my divorce goes through, I will be able to go out and find someone new who's so great it will make me wonder why I stayed with my wife so long. So, I'm not doing it for her anymore.

I do it for my kids. As Jennifer says, I want them to be abnormal (i.e., not come from a divorced household). And because I understand that our marriage wasn't all that broken, and it would be a waste to throw it away. And because I'm stubborn and a bit of a glutton for punishment.

The intermediary gig is not an easy one to get right, by the way.

How old are your kids?

Can't sleep. Just read your post. My kids are 8 and 11. I had a great day today. Somedays I wake up and feel confident, others I am sad and hopless. It's the good days in between that keep me going. Checked in to going to nursing school. Seems my B.S. degree will take care of a lot of the requirments other than the nursing classes. Just not sure with a mortgage and a rent that we can really afford it. My PT job pays for the rental house and other expenses. If I decide to go forward with this I plan to let H know that he can get a smaller more affordable rental, we can put our house on the market, or he can work a feww extra hours somewhere on the side to help finance his affair. If he won't help, then I know that I will qualify for alimony, even if it is temporary. He can either help me now or if we end up divorce he will have to help in the form of alimony. I don't think a judge would deny me the opportunity, at least for two years.

Sorry you can't sleep. But it is important to be looking at, and thinking about all of your options. I DO think you can get some alimony to make yourself very competitive in the job market by going back to school. Maybe a second job would be good for hubby.

But no need to make an instant decision. I really think that your marriage can be recovered. Just keep making plans for the future.

believer-

Are you just a night owl or could you not sleep?? I noticed the time on your post. I'm not making any quick decisions. I have plenty of time. My main concern about starting to go back for this nursing program is that it will be a two years before I finish. If things go my way...if H came back, I would like to start someone new. I think it would be good for us. I would be in the middle of that program and would be stuck for 2 years. On the other hand, I feel like I have to start looking out for me. For me the program would be great, will show H that I am not afraid of a challenge, that I'm looking out for me etc. Plus, it is really something I have thought about since we've been married. I am alomost excited about the challenge. It might not be whats best for a recovery though if he should want to return.

Update...left msg with OW employer yesterday asked for return call in regards to workplace affair. I have not gotten a return call. I just copied the sample letter from the first page. I will tweak it and get those sent out ASAP. I do not want this to be overlooked.