I do look at what he does. I don't see him doing anything to make this marriage work. He moved home only to say he thinks he made a mistake and move out again. That's what he's doing. He told his friend the end of June he was happy and excited about moving home and working on our marriage. What gives? he didn't even work on anything. I think he thought he was going to come home and somehow be in love again. I think he expected everything to be OK just because he returned. When it wasn't I think he second guessed himself. He and ow were friends/coworkers a long time before the A. Maybe they are soulmates. Maybe he does love her and not me. As he says people change.

Is everything going on here typical? Is it part of the W script? Can I just calm down and say this is what they all do, don't take it personally. don't take it seriously right now. Is this just part of it all???

what, in Gods name, is a "SOULMATE??" Are you smoking CRACK this morning? Ani, Ani, Ani... we are grown ups here, not teenagers. "Soulmates" is teenage girl talk.

Your H is no different from any other WS. He is talking the same crap.

That is ok that he picks up the kids for a short visit on Thanksgiving, as long as a) it doesn't disrupt your dinner plans, b) you don't see or talk to him and c) he picks them up and drops them off in the drive way.

Yes, he is going by the script. It may take him longer to go through withdrawal than normal, since they have had a longer relationship.

Thanksgiving is just one more chance for him to break Plan B. I would let him come pick the kids long after dinner is over. Otherwise he may try to worm his way into the festivities.

Having Thanksgiving dinner at McDonalds and picking his kids up for a 2 hour visit will be a MUCH NEEDED wake up call. Plan B at the holidays is an excellent opportunity for the WS to face the consequences of his bad decisions.

Ani, he is no different than my FWS. Nope.

My FWH left, then came home, then left, then came home, then left, then came home.

Yeah, and you were his SOULMATE at one time, too, Ani. That's not about real love. Real love is a choice, not some etherial pull toward one another. It's hard work.

SEE, you are looking at what he's said and NOT what he's DONE. HE came home, right? This can happen again, but you must follow the MB path closely. It is proven to work.

I'm in the throes of recovery because I finally hunkered down and followed the rules. Now, even if YOU follow the plan, that does not guarantee that you won't mess up, or he won't. It gives you the best chance to, in the end, have a recovered, happy marriage, that both of you thrive in.

It works! Follow the plan.

This IS part of it all, but you have to calm down and take control.

While in Plan B, my then WH dropped my son off in the driveway. THere were no sightings of me, and I avoided seeing him. It was one of the best things I could have ever done, at the time.

Oh, and the reason my FWH came home and came home and left was because *I* kept repeating the same pattern. Work the Plans and they will work for you, no matter what happens.

ML-
Maybe I need to smoke something!!!! Maybe I would feel better. Maybe if I were in a fog too everything would be just groovy!!! Do I still need to investigate whether the affair is back on? At this point I am exhausted with trying to see if they are together. If the affair is back on why wouldn't he just tell me he's with her and that we will no longer be a couple. Why would he hide it. I've read these posts and some WS just say they love the OW move in with them and all. Why would he feel complelled to hide it from me after all this time?

Ani, of course he would hide his affair, that is just an expectation. Yes, you do need to know, so you can freshly expose it and so you can understand his mentality AND use this evidence in any potential court actions.

In the short term, I would suggest getting your friend on board as an intermediary if she will agree to be neutral. Your H needs to get that plan B letter along with my comments. If he wants to get the kids on Thanksgiving for a couple of short hours, then he can negotiate that with your friend. It will be his job to ask, though.

Silent
What do you mean you kept repeating the same pattern?
Is it more favorable for our recovery since he wanted to come home once before. Does that show he has been struggling with the other relationship. That sometimes he does get a small dose of reality. Do you think if I do I really good Plan B he will want to come back? Will it be enough to break him?? How long for that to happen if it does?

ML-

Hr director should be contacting OW anytime now. Don't know if I mentioned it but she contacted me in regards to the workplace affair. Said they would be handeling according to their P & P. I asked for a follow up call. You do think the company will do something don't you. I mean her boss knows and he must have told the HR director. I'm thinking if two know that they probably will do something even if it just to counsel her. The only thing she has is her job. It will probably be pretty humiliating having to look at or boss after something like that. It may be just the pressure i need.

Ani, I kept allowing him to come home without a solid plan for recovery, and without having given him a roadmap home. I EXPECTED him to come home and work hard, and when I didn't get that, I didn't give him anything, except my disdain. When that happened, he was convinced that my words didn't match my actions, and he left. I can't say that he was wrong, either.

YOu have to hunker down and get dark and use your time to examine yourself. You can only change and control yourself.

I didn't use our time apart to FIX myself, or to consider what would be necessary for me to be convinced that he meant business and was ready to commit to recovery. This requires a good Plan B letter, spelling out what you KNOW you've done wrong in the marriage, apologizing for your wrong doings, expressing a want to build a happy, fulfilling marriage that BOTH of you benefit from, then giving a list of requirements for YOU ending Plan B and working toward recovery.

Once I began following the MB plans, I felt stronger. I follow them today. I have setbacks, some major, but I get back up, dust myself off, and work the plans. Every day gets easier and I feel stronger.

I've taken responsibility for my part. Gave him the letter. He knows I don't want a divorce. Told him I forgave him, he needs to forgive himself. I will reiterate through my intermediary my conditions for him to return home. ntil then NC.

Question...Spoke to friend about being intermediary. She said she would do it but was concerned if we did get back together how H would respond to her. I told her she will be a neutral party just relaying messages. Any experience with this??

Yes, my best friend was my intermediary. She remained neutral, just conveyed messages, made no comments. My FWH still likes her a great deal.

It's a neutral position. She is a filter, nothing more.

My best friend is a self professed conflict avoider, so she did have some discomfort now and then, but she loves me and wanted to help. We survived, and our friendship thrives today.

If she has the stomach for it, she'll be great, but she also has to have the availability and flexibility to relay these messages in a timely manner.

My friend would 'filter' the messages to contain the important points, getting rid of nonessential emotional stuff.

Thanks for the info on the intermediary. I think she would be good. She doesn't work outside the home so she can take calls pretty much anytime. H picked kids up tonight. I hugged and kissed them and said good night then sent them outside to their father. No interaction with H at all. It still really bothers me when he doesn't make an attempt to see or talk to me. Why is that? Is he so wrapped up in OW that he really could care less if he talked to me. Do they feel like they can be with OW without guilt if we're separated and not talking. What's the deal with that?

Day 2 of truely NC. Feel kinda down. I really wish H would want to make contact. At least then it would be my decision not to return the call or whatever. Do WS start out like this a lot in Plan b and get weaker as time goes on. i really feel like I'm a burden to him and now he doesn't have to deal with me. He's got everything thing he wants perhaps OW and our kids.

Ani, he already knows he can break nc at will so he isn't worried about it right now. He knows he is in full control and can see you when the spirit moves him.

However, the point of Plan B is not to manipulate him into wanting you, but to REMOVE YOU from his presence. It is so you can detach and focus on yourself and your children. Notice how good you start feeling when you don't see him for awhile?

Ani, where is your husband staying? And how do you have a video of him meeting with the OW? Where/how did you get that?

ML-

I know that I am to focus on myself and kids and detach. I do feel better when i'm not having to analyze and make sense of everything he does and says. I did think that Plan b was also showing H what life is really like without me. I guess I just wanted him to try to contact me and such and that I would be in control of the situation. Is it just too soon. What can I expect during this time? Him trying to contact for stupid reasons, just NC at all then maybe one day just wanting to talk, or just being served papers??? I just did a quick timeline and this has really been ghoing on 2 years. With him moving home some during that time. Why do other WS just end the affair and come right home? Is our situation worse because it has been going on two years? Or have I allowed it somewhat? Is this a typical timeframe? I thought I read in SAA that most affairs end w/in 6 months after exposure , some may last a much as 2 years but not very often. Is it because i really didn't expose to the right people? Are the just one of those affairs that will go on and lead to marriage. They will break all the odds against them. Is it a good sign that my H returned once??