Sorry for the typos!! What I meant to say was you think they are still together? H was mad when he found out I spoke to her. He did not know, I could tell. He said what are you guys best friends now??? It hurts to think they are together. I was hoping she would stick to her guns.

Just tried to call I, no answer. Will try again. I feel more hopless now. Then he really did leave me to go back to her. I was hoping he was in withdrawal and was just confused by the whole thing.

What are the hopes for recovery if they've left you twice for the OW????

It's still the same A Ani, so the hope is still alive. Even after multiple A's, there is hope. Recovery is more difficult, but not impossible.

My FWH had two PA's and one EA in between.

About finding out if OW and WH are still together, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

You WH seems no different than many others I've read here.

Do they leave a second time, why? Why would he keep telling me he isn't seeing her if he is? I guess after leaving a second time you could come clean and say I'm seeing OW and that's all there is to it. Why still lie? Perhaps he thinks if I find out I will tell her employer in retaliation? Perhaps he's trying to protect that.

The same if they have left you once or five times. I don't know if he is still in the affair. But I suspect he left to pursue her and felt like he could be more successful if you were seperated. But, that is just SPECULATION. This is why I want you to have him tailed.

Of course he will lie! Why would he expose himself to your wrath and possible rfamifications of telling you he is pursuing his affair? That is the last thing he is likely to do!

Ani,

Don't think too much on what he may or may not be thinking or doing, just find out. Get concrete facts.

Why would he tell you about any A's? He wants the cake eating life. It's sick and twisted, but true. Plan B is a violent shove off of the fence.

Find out if he's in an A, expose it, and be dark.

Tailing him is so emotionally exhausting. I swore last time that I would not do that again. Unless I hire someone, which is so expensive I would have to do it myself. I cringed to think I have to go back to that state of mind.

How is it cake eating if he is seeing her and not being with me? I can see cake eating during Plan A when we were getting along, no LB's, just light stuff, and he's seeing her too. But when you're in Plan B?

When you're in Plan B there is NO MORE cake eating, because you've stopped baking. He has to go to OW for his 'cake' (EN's). Being in contact does feed some of his EN's. When you cut him off, he has to attempt to have those met with OW or go without.

Plan B establishes that you will, under no uncertain terms, CUT HIM OFF, and not be friends anymore, as long as OW is in the picture and he is not committed to recovery.

Because WS's are liars. They just are. This is very common--mine continued lying to my face even as I pleaded with her to just tell me the truth (if you're still seeing him, just tell me and we can be done, which is what she wanted, but she continued to lie).

It's easier for the WS if the BS believes that the marriage was dead before the affair. They so desperately want to believe that the affair is not the cause of the death of the marriage that they will do just about anything to protect themselves from that reality.

Update....Had intermediary contact WH. Left message for email.

FYI-

Got my intermediary to contavt my husband. Asked him to call her with an email address. He did not call as of yet. Then later on today H called to tell the kids when he was picking them up. Asked to talk to me. I told youngest that mom could n't talk right now. He asked again, I said not right now. He asked again and I told him to tell his father to tell him and he could give me a message I was busy. Son responded he said it's not something he can talk about with me. I took the phone and H started going off on me about contacting his friends about the A. I calmly explained that I was worried about him and I thought that his friends might be able to lend an ear. I said you told me they knew about the A, which come to find out they didn't. H was of course mad because he lied to his friend because his friend told me he asked him if another woman was involoved and H told friend no. But curiously, I spoke to his friend about two weeks ago and I know his friend talked to him right after I did because his friend and I spoke after the fact. Why all of a sudden would he be so mad that he would insist on talking to me tonight? Unless he spoke to his other friend but two weeks later? I'm beginning to wonder if HR didn't contact OW. OW told H and is furious. He couldn't tell me he spoke to her so he couldn't tell me why he was really mad. Used friends as a way to vent. Told me to stop telling people, wonders if I told his family. Also, told me that if there was ever a chance of us getting back together it won't happen now. I said I'm sorry you feel that way. I was concerned about you, I love you, and was hoping that maybe your friends could help. That's it and I said goodbye.

I tried to get intermediary set up today. H did not return intermediary's call. What next just give letter in envelope and have kids give it to him? Alow a few more days for a call back?

I would start Plan A NOW. You don't have to have him speak to your intermediary until something IMPORTANT comes up.

Why Plan A now???

Mistype - PLAN B!!!!!!!!!!

Go into Plan B now. Give him the letter - via kids - with a note attached to the top with my comments. Give him the intermediary's email address for purposes of contact.

I would also expose to his parents and any others. Another good exposure would be the OW's parents. Do you know how to contact them?