He totally ignores my request to use an intermediary. I am going to just shut down all communication and force him to use her. After last night I can see how having communication with him is not good for me. He tried manipulating me into getting what he wants...and he used our children to do it. I am so disappointed in him. I really see now that he is not the same man.

This is all typical behavior for a wayward husband. Disgusting, morally reprehensible, bad parenting, but typical. Sad.

This person is not the same man, but he can be again. The more you see him as Wayward husband, the more it will drain your love bank. You want to have something left in your love bank if your HUSBAND shows up.

You want to reconcile with your husband. Your wayward husband can go to ******.

Don't do anything until you've talked with Jennifer.

Sdgauy-

Thanks for responding. I was hoping to hear from you. I understand the triggers now. I know why I have to avoid him. Am I suppose to go along with whatever he wants so he doesn't get angry? I didn't try to antagonize him. I actually offered to watch the kids Sat night and offered my Sunday night so he could spend some extra time with them. I was being generous. He didn't like the idea because I'm sure he has other plans in mind that involved the whole weekend. That's why he wanted to switch weekends. He got angry at me because he didn't get his way. He can't even see that I was trying to be kind. Now he says he will bring the kids over sometime Christmas day. Our original plans were to share them Christmas Eve, they spend Christmas morning with me, and christmas afternoon with him. He got mad and now doesn't want to do that plan because I'm not doing what he wants.

SO DO YOU, though, Ani! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you don't seriously mean it, he won't take it seriously.


If you are really prepared to go into Plan B, I would have the intermediary email him with the letter and tell him all contact has to go through her. But he will really test you this time since you didn't mean it the last time. I wouldn't bother unless you are prepared to stick with it.

SDguy, she has already counseled with Steve Harley and he gave his full blessing for Plan B. Now she just has to stick with it. She has been counseling with Steve.

I get that, Mel--I don't think we are at cross purposes here. Ani has done some things to undermine her Plan B and needs to get back on track. I just don't want her to make matters any worse between now and her appointment with Jennifer on Thursday.

Ani, I hope you're not seeing Jennifer specifically because I brought her up. I don't imagine they will give drastically different advice, but I think you should try to keep working with whomever you have been working with.

Steve recommended plan B. You started but didn't do a great job. I'm not sure why (because it's hard? because you didn't know what to do? because you didn't know how it's supposed to work?). You need to get back on track. Consult a Harley to get back on track.

Ani, why are you switching to Jennifer when you have been counseling with Steve? Did you not like Steve?

I'm not sure why I wanted to talk to Jennifer. I know they were trained the same and should probably give the same advice. Just thought I'd try her. The sessions are expensive and I need to get the most I can from each session. Anyway, I just returned home from son's Christmas concert. When I got back into the car my H had left several nasty msgs on my phone. He was upset that I did not have the kids at the house waiting for him. We were at the concert he forgot about. I'm sure he feels terrible now, and he left me those msgs. He did call back and left a msg to forgive him for what he said and that he forgot all about the concert.

Don't get mad, at least don't show him that you're mad that he left those nasty messages. Either accept his apology or ignore it and go back to Plan B and go completely dark.

You keep saying how he ignores your Plan B, but, aren't you doing the samething to your own plan?

Troll Alert

Whoop Whoop Whoop

Ani,

DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING (even an apology) from your WH. DO NOT TALK TO HIM. This is a good opportunity to really hunker down in Plan B, and break YOU of your bad habit to placate your WH.

Don't SHOW him any part of you; that's not plan B at all.

Plan B would have been you not listening to his messages at all, but you did, so let's move on from this, okay.

Do yourself a favor and get that intermediary wrapped up. Do not answer to phone or emails. Do not respond in any way to his communications.

Wayward spouses are bizarre creatures. Think of them like drug addicts. Sometimes drug addicts are happy and pleasant, but sometimes the reality of what they are doing to themselves and those they love starts to weigh on them, and so they feel bad.

When the WS starts to feel bad, upon whom do you think they will place the blame? Themselves (where it belongs)? Of course not. They will pick out a convenient target, and the easiest one is the BS. "It's the BS's fault. They're the one that is trying to make me miserable, prevent me from being happy, they were always the one pulling me down, bla bla bla." Hence, the angry phone messages.

This kind of thing is what Plan B will protect you from.

Because you have undermined your Plan B and talked with your WH, you will probably need to reset the rules for him (and you). I recommend working out how to do this (whether to resend the letter, send a different letter, whatever) with the Harleys.

Once you have done this, you won't be listening to those voice messages. You can listen to the beginning, and if they are not emergencies, you delete them without hearing the venom.

I am going to talk to J tonight to see how to reset the rules. I know that contact with him is not good. I just don't understand the anger towards me. That's the way I should be towards him. I don't really get why the second time he moved out he seems more angry. The first time I guess I was doing Plan A so eveything was going his way. He was cake-eating. This time though he doesn't seem happy at all. Not like last time. I don't know if it is me (although we don't talk much) or things not going well with OW. He is stressing though. Guess I'll never know.

Who gives a crap why he is angry and with whom. This is no longer our concern, Ani. Part of Plan B, that will be good for you, is detaching from your WS. This is something you need to do a lot of work with. You are constantly commenting on you WH's feelings and his anger, and how he's different than the last time.

If he is stressing, then , OH WELL! Ani, this is why you need plan B. You are exposing yourself to his wackiness, and his anger, and ALLOWING it to sway you. It's just not healthy. If you ever want to recover, you are going to have to detach enough that you can allow his anger to be HIS. Not your problem.

I'm not going to go into why he's unhappy, it's not productive to YOU. It's much more productive for you to think and talk about what you are doing for yourself these days. Focus on what you can control, YOU. You sound more concerned over your WH's feelings than the children or the finances, or yourself. This may not be true, and if it's not, then lets stop talking about how angry he is and how you are going to get back into plan B.

I'm scared when he's angry because I think he's lost his love for me and there won't be a chance for reconciliation. There I said it. When he's angry he blurts out things like I want a divorce. I feel like as long as I am k8ind to him he will have second thoughts over a divorce. I still love him and want this to work.

As long as you are kind to him? To a wayward? They will take full advantage of you, laying THEIR guilt at your feet, and manipultating you (because YOU let them) to weasle out of the consequences of having an A. If you don't want a divorce, I would suggest the MB way. If you do, then keep giving in to his manipulations.

His ANGER IS HIS, and has nothing to do with you, Ani. Let him have it. You did not cause his anger, he did, by betraying you and not having anywhere else to lay the blame, except you are letting him lay it on you.

If you are not willing to shut him out, this will not work.

If I could reach through the monitor, I'd give you a swat upside the head. Why are you taking on his anger and guilt, Ani? They are not yours to deal with, and the sooner you shut the door in it's face, the sooner he will be forced to deal with it, and his guilt and shame.

We teach people how to treat us. If you want this sort of treatment, then I say continue on. If you want respect and love, try the MB path. EVEN IF YOU DON'T RECOVER YOUR M, YOU will recover, and be ready for the world.

I can't stress this enough Ani, break loose these chains that you have set upon yourself.

Your WH will never respect you like this.

You're going to have to get past this, Ani. This is what people mean by 'having your head and heart aligned for Plan B,' because plan B is not easy. You have to steel yourself, and if you're still thinking about being kind to him, it probably won't work.

The kindest thing you can do for him is to protect what love you have left by doing a good Plan B.

Let us know how your session with Jennifer goes.

Thanks guys. It was great to hear from you. My session with J was really good. I can talk to her easier (probably a woman thing). She explained Plan B so well. I am going to compose a letter with conditions to which he has to meet should he want to come home. That is to be forwarded to her so she can review it. Any help and ideas with this would be helpful!! She gave me canned phrases to tell him should he try to communicate. We can email and I can send them to friend to have her review before reading them. I feel so much better after talking to her. I do however have a question...I am friends with a man (don't see him often or even talk to him outside our group of friends) that is sending me signals. I have to admit it feels nice to have someone actually seem interested in me. I know I am vulnerable right now so I have really kept my distance. At times though I think why not have coffee or lunch. It would be nice to have someone to just be friends with. To have someone to do stuff with. My concern is though that the more time spent just being friend could evolve into something else. My life is complicated now as it is...I don't need anything else. I'm pretty sure the answer will be to leave it alone. What do you guys think???

I think we need to kill you! **thud**

If you want a "friend" then call up a GIRL, not a GUY. You are a MARRIED WOMAN who is vulnerable and should most certainly not have relationships with men outside of your marriage. You are MARRIED. YOU ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR DATING. GIRL, NO GUYS! Got dat? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />