Be careful....my WH had a "secret" cell phone.

Mine also had a secret cell phone he kept hidden in his truck.

well, what happened?

what happened what?

She gave herself away for free is what happened.

mbm69, did you explain to Jennifer that you are not married? What was her response to that?

They are not married? I saw a lot of references to her H so I guess I missed that one.

MBM, I was just reading through your posts. Putting aside your h (?) for a few thoughts here...
Have YOU ended all contact with the OM? This would include any contact that your CHILDREN have with him. It doesn't matter how much your kids enjoy their activity, it is a casualty of your EA. Until you do this, there is no point in discussing what your H is or might be doing. Take care of your own issues first and then worry about him.

Several weeks ago you also had sex with your H when he made it clear that he just wanted to screw someone...no emotions. Do you make a habit of continually repeating your mistakes?

Do you feel like your value as a woman is determined by someone else wanting to have sex with you? Yesterday, you said it made you feel good about yourself. Let me ask you...how does being used like a paid vessel make you feel good about yourself? I would suggest that if you had any self respect that you would feel a bit degraded after something like that.

What is your plan moving forward? Your PLAN....not a fleeting thought about what you will do...your plan.

ML - Yes Jennifer knows he's not technically my husband. She said there was no difference because we had made a long term commitement in another manner.

MEDC - I have ceased one on one contact with the OM. I cannot cease the activity until the end of November. DS1 found out he was up for black belt ranking end of November. He's been working so hard for this... I don't mind pulling him out once he's had his black belt, but I can't make him start over in another school until he's gotten his black belt. It's the only thing in his little world right now that he knows with certainty. WS knows that I have ceased one on one contact with OM. I don't even see him because the kids don't have classes with him anymore.

I talked to him a little while ago. I called him. He was very cold and said he was busy at work. I asked him if he was ok, and he said NO! (then whispered, I can't talk right now, my boss is here). He told me last week that his job is in jeopardy right now, and he hinted at it again. Says he needs to come over to the house and get his resume.

You know, I thought that I had gained some ground yesterday with him. But you guys are absolutely right. He's probably not only using me just for sexual pleasure right now, but he's using sex to get other things, like his resume.

I told him that I'd put his resume on a CD and can give it to him on Thursday (during what I think will be our last MC session).

I'm so desperate right now, that yes I believe I'm acting like a doormat. I hate to admit it, because I've always prided myself as being a strong and independent woman...

I know I haven't been in plan A for long, but I'm seriously considering plan B now. Plan A is clouding all my judgement and makes me sick to my stomach. I think as long as I'm focusing on S, I can't focus adequately on the kids.

I'm thinking that S is manipulating me BIG TIME. He knows me too well, I'm predictable, and he knows how to press my buttons.

How were you all able to think clearly??? I am obviously not, at all.

TJ alert!!!!!!

MBM...I can see NO reason for you to maintain contact with OM.

Your son is 7, and up for a black belt test?!?!?! Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!

While I totally agree with getting kids into the martial arts...what your son is in is a MCDOJO...those are a dime a dozen. Earning a black belt there isn't worth your remaining in contact with OM...that simple.

Let me be brutally honest...you're pretty much garaunteed that no other school (especially a qualified school that truly teaches martial arts) is likely going to honor a 7 year old's black belt. That belt, while making your son feel wonderful about himself...isn't worth remaining in contact with OM for.

I know that's harsh...but its simple, straight up truth.

agreed Owl...
and MBM...you made a point of saying before that you wouldn't even be going to the dojo any more. that someone else would be taking your children.
For God's sake...we are talking about a 7 year olds black belt! NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT....and if your son is hurt and upset by that...consider it a consequence of your actions that you need to explain it to him.

I will ask the following questions again...

Do you feel like your value as a woman is determined by someone else wanting to have sex with you? Yesterday, you said it made you feel good about yourself. Let me ask you...how does being used like a paid vessel make you feel good about yourself? I would suggest that if you had any self respect that you would feel a bit degraded after something like that.

What is your plan moving forward? Your PLAN....not a fleeting thought about what you will do...your plan.

By coming here and posting lots of questions, by following a plan, by not changing the plan according to the actions/reactions of a WS.

Was your decision to have SF with him based on your plan? Was SF a valid complaint of his? Were you not having SF with him and that might have caused problems in your R?

I want to know how SF with him fits into the plan you have to restore your R.

Also, is he the father of your children? How long together?

I understand what you mean about the McDojo. However, DS lack of self esteem has improved so much since he has been there. He calls it his second home. I don't mind myself getting away from there, through DS being driven by other people there (like my parents). If I remove myself from that environment, isn't that sufficient enough? At least, for a couple of weeks until it's all over???

I have NO feelings for the OM. I just feel like a fool having EVER had any feelings for him. It was more akin to a crush on a movie star than anything else. It wasn't an EA. Just a guy who gave me a few compliments when I desperately needed them. I was NEVER anything special to him. I'm just another mother of a kid there. I don't give a flying [censored] if I ever see him again. And S KNOWS all this. And we have discussed it, and he FORBID me from taking DS out of karate, he said it was too important for DS. He told me if I take him out, he's going to put him back in. Even after I told him that I think it would be best for us, as a family. S said, karate has nothing to do with US, AS A FAMILY: I JUST DON'T LOVE YOU ANYMORE!

I don't know how clearer it can be.

No my value as a woman is not determined by someone who wants to have sex with me. It made me feel good about myself yesterday, but today, I feel used and abused and know I made a big mistake.



It was supposed to be Plan A. But I don't even know anymore who is the WS, me or S. SF was #1 EN for S, and in plan A, I knew I should fill his ENs when he left the door open for me, so that's why I did it yesterday.

Basically my plan has been to try and meet ENs (but now I realize I,ve acted as a doormat in the process) and avoid LBs (which I have).

NC with the OM/OW is supposed to be part of plan A. I don't even know if there is a OW with S. Now, you are all telling me that I still have OM (even if I don't feel a thing for him) and that I have to cut contact with OM. I have cut contact with OM, only DS has the contact now.

Beyond that, no I don't have a plan.

weaver - I have been with him for 15 years, and yes he's the father of both kids.

I would say that's okay for a few weeks...BUT YOU SAID A FEW WEEKS AGO that was going to happen, yet you continue to go there.

NC is NOT part of Plan A. Plan A is designed for the BS to try to identify any (ligit) ways they may have failed in the marriage pre-A and make themselves a more attractive option than the OW, and to expose the affair. It is not about meeting the WS's E/N's. NC and E/N meeting are part of recovery.

In some (very few) cases the BS may have failed to meet the WS's need for SF pre-A, and so would include this as part of their Plan A. Mimi did, and feels it saved her marraige. However, I feel most of the time it is too damaging to the BS to include as a part of their Plan A.

Yes, it was based on my plan. SF was his #1 EN when he filled out the questionnaire. It WAS a valid complaint of his, and it did cause problems in our R. He was not affectionate with me, which caused me to withdraw sexually. Sex was mostly done because it was a "duty" of mine. I rarely had pleasure. He always felt like less of a man because of that, because he wasn't able to give me pleasure. And he did tell me this numerous times during our relationship, yet I didn't "get" it.

Yesterday, he said that he wanted to have sex with me to see me have pleasure, because he wanted to feel like a man again. I gave him what he wanted and I did have pleasure and it wasn't fake. He thanked me after.

Okay, that is a ligit reason IMO to have SF with him yesterday. Stop beating yourself up for it. However, going forward lets come up with a better plan.

You don't know if it safe or not to have SF with him (SD's yanno)...lets move into other areas where you may be able o attract him back.

Have you read any of ARK's stuff regarding Plan A? Her lighthouse threads?

Understood. But, if SF was a problem and I try to "fix" that problem, so to speak, doesn't that make me a more attractive option?

I've been trying to find out about the affair on his side. I've contacted so many people about it... the cell phone records... last step is a PI (whom I have to go back and see next week). Everyone I talked to is telling me to drop it, that there is NO affair. I have tried exposing the abherrant behavior I have seen from him to his parents and his cousin (the person the closest to him) in the last few weeks (compulsive spending) and no one seems to care.

I already know some of the things I did, S was clear about a lot of them. He said I was controling and judgemental. That I was mothering him too much (again, controling and judgemental). That he was scared of me when I did get angry. Basically, love busters abounded on my side.

Weaver - I posted while you answered... I re-explained the same thing basically.

Now that I have proved to him that I can make him feel SF after yesterday, I really think I should put a halt to that. I don't want to become the A in my own relationship. He knows what he and I are capable of on that front, so I have probably proved my point, I guess.

When I talked to Jennifer last week, she told me to meet the EN that he did express to me, so I thought that was the only thing to do yesterday.

Now I have to work on the other stuff. Ie the love busters.