Weaver...it might NOT be possible to accomplish this in a way that her MOM does not perceive harm. As a matter of fact, I would bet the house on it.

It is not harmful to say that here are my boundaries and to remain a part of my life...they need to be honored. BUT her mom will most certainly feel she is being harmed because she is having her power taken away from her.

Dealing with emotional blackmailers is not for the faint of heart. Just because someone is a parent does not entitle them to respect or being honored. That is something that every parent needs to earn based on their actions over time. The book will tell her how to accomplish this task...but it might be necessary to sever ties with her mom until the boundaries are well understood and followed. The most important thing here is not to avoid hurting someones feelings...it is to break the abusive cycle that her mom has thrust on her and her brother. If both can be accomplished at the same time, all the better...but I would doubt it.

Well, we can hope that boundaries can be set in a non-hurtful way.

I would bet, although I am no expert, that there has been a dance going on here. mbm is almost 40 and has been getting a lot of benefits from her mom as such as help with the house. Also, she has not had to rely emotionally on her H, put her foot down, make a choice, make a commitment.

mbm needs to own her part in it as much as everyone else. If she has to break ties with her mom in a way that is unkind...it will cause an emotional back-lash in her.

I believe there are ways to enforce boundaries in a kind way, where once adhered to, a relationship can still be had between them.

That's all I'm saying MEDC, no need to draw arms.



It is my belief MEDC, that yes it does.

"Thou shalt honor thy Mother and Father"

Respect is given by people who HAVE self-respect, it has little to do with the receiver. She can respect and honor her mom and still not let her control her life. It is her job as an adult to have healthy boundaries where her family is concerned.

edited cuz I can't see or type worth beans today.

Honor thy mother and father...yep...but they can lose that.
how about moms that sell their children into pornography? do they deserve honor and respect...not int his lifetime. dads that rape their little girls? nope, not ever. It has to be earned.

Harmed? She's going to totally FREAK OUT. She's always had control over my life, and has always voiced her negative opinion about choices I made, from my career to my personal life to my spouse. I often joke around that my mom is trying to live the life she wanted to live through me. But the thing is, for some strange reason, I CRAVE the approval I get from her. Yet, I never seem to be perfect enough for her. I always thought it was something personal between me and her, but turns out it affects a lot of people around me.



I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. That I haven't had to rely on H during this whole ordeal???

I talked to S tonight again. After reading here this afternoon, I was in tears, again, realizing that my relationship with my mom was much more destructive than I had ever dreamed. I was in a panic. On a whim, I emailed H and pleaded for help and copy/pasted what MEDC posted (told you that was a wakeup call)... I know bad move, and immediately after I hit send, I knew it was a bad idea... But lo and behold, he called me up and said "are you ok?" I told him I was sorry, but that I shouldn't of disturbed him with my problems.

He said, "it's not YOUR problem, its OUR problem, because if it means that your mother will be in the way of being with my kids, that is against the law". Ok, now I knew it was a really bad idea... but eventually I told him that I didn't plan on my mother preventing him from seeing the kids. I told him, "if I have to cut contact with her in order for things to work for the kids, I will".

He said that right now, I "need" the physical support she is giving. So we came up with a plan that we are going to discuss with the therapist tomorrow.

He said that once i'm more emotionally able, it will be easier for me to cut ties with her, but he did tell me "you are definitely moving in the right direction"

Yes, things are moving in the right direction, at least I think they are. At least me and S are talking, he seems to care... if not for me at least for his kids. That's the most important thing.

I've done more soul searching in the last 3 weeks that I've done during my whole life.

I've been slapped in the face here a couple of times, but I know it was all in good intentions... I realize that now.

The soul searching and self improvement is going to be a struggle, but it's definitely on its way.

you are on your way. you will struggle..but you will find your footing and your mom will eventually accept her diminished ...and appropriate...role.


growth is good!

Did mbm's mom sell her into slavery, or did they rape her? I mean really, MEDC.

Villainizing someone for a role you both played a part in has the effect of negating your own responsibility. If she is the villain, than I can be the victim and I don't have to change. Just have to get rid of the villain.

If you are sincere about growth, than it takes looking at your own role, changing it, implementing boundaries. There was a payoff for mbm to go almost 40 years with letting her mom run her life and R. I doubt that the mother would have had such a poor opinion of mbm H if mbm hadn't planted those seeds and run to her mom/dad every time he did something wrong. She would have had to have been going along with it. mbm is not five years old, she is under nobody's control without her own agreeability to it.

Everyone was in the wrong here, it looks like to me.



This is what I mean by relying on S instead of your parents, emotionally. When you are committed to your M, the M comes first and you don't run to your parents when something isn't working. You go to your spouse and try to fix it together.

But as I said earlier, be careful of villainizing your parents, unless you have really, truly examined your role in the dance and are absolutely certain that you are right to do so.

I missed your email the other day mbm, and just now replied. (sorry)

I ordered the Emotional Blackmail book. I also ordered, from the same author, Toxic Parents and Toxic Inlaws. I had to reorder His needs Her needs, because I gave my copy to S.

Since S isn't living at home, I have my evenings free for reading, and now I have lots to read about.

We've been emailing back and forth again today. In one of his emails he said "worst case scenario, we will stay good friends". That's not bad, ya know... worst case scenario a few weeks ago was that I was going to kill him. LOL I would never EVER kill him, but he was SCARED of me physically anyways.

Is this what you want, to be good friends? Or do you want to be married and in a great relationship. Be careful of this. Especially if he is in an affair.

You never answered my earlier question mbm, why did he move out? What did he give you for a reason? Did you say you hired a PI?

Weaver, you are right I most definitely have a role to play in my pathlogical relationship with my mother. I say pathological because I think indeed that's what it is if it has contributed to the demise of my family.

On another note, I had to meet with the director of the daycare my youngest son is at. They had a staff meeting regarding my son. They have noticed some "worrisome" changes in behavior and have told me they will be keeping an eye on him to make sure he doesn't require assessement by a psychologist. For the sake of keeping S informed, I emailed him this information. He has always told me that the children would be unaffected by his departure... I just wanted him to realize that the kids ARE indeed suffering... but they won't necessarily express it.

My oldest son is good at expressing. For example. Just to give you an idea, we live in a family friendly neighborhood where over 95% of families are together. I know it sounds strange, but I guess the neighborhood we are in doesn't attract single parents. So last week, my oldest son came home and started crying saying "I'm different from all my friends! I'm the only one whose parents are separated! There is only 1 other child in my class who has separated parents!" He then added "I know how it is, children whose parents are separated have more difficult childhoods..." Where does he get this stuff???? Has he heard me talk about it??? I don't know...

Weaver..DID I SAY HER MOM DID THAT? No.
It makes the point that just because you have a title, you do not automatically deserve respect.

Nope it's not what I want, at all. I'm NEVER going to accept him as a friend only. If he ever meets another woman (unless he already has), I will not be able to remain friends with him. I might be able to be civilized, but friends No. Way.

I didn't reply to that particular message, about us being friends, I had no clue what to say. Should I say something???



The reasons he told me for moving out were he was not happy at home and thought he could be a better father without me around. He also told me he was so hurt by my EA/crush that he didn't know if he could ever trust me again. He mentionned that I was controling, judgemental, moody, all which contributed to his departure. He said he had been hinting for weeks that we needed couple counseling but I didn't listen to him. The last straw for him came when one evening he was working on his resume. I told him "when one works on a resume, one is usually looking for another job". He said "yup, that's what I'm doing". To which I said "you have a pattern, you cannot change jobs every year like you are doing, it's not good career wise... it makes the whole family unstable and it puts all the financial and stability responsibility on my shoulders". He freaked and told me it was over and that he was moving out.

I talked to a PI last week. He said that I better wait a week or 2 after he had settled in his apartment before doing anything. Said he probably wasn't comfortable enough right now and might be on his guard. I have to call back next week.

Just keep doing exactly what you are doing then. Until you have proof one way or the other, I think you are right to not respond, just smile, or change the subject when he mentions how you will always be good friends...for now.

When you get the results from the PI, if there is proof of an affair, come here BEFORE you confront him so you have a solid plan in place.

As for your kids, I am so sorry they are having a hard time. I hate to see families break up. My daughter is doing very, very well now, but we had some pretty rough times in the past. But your M has a much better chance than mine did, because I did not have MB and believe me I did every thing wrong. I was the queen of LB's until finally I just lost all desire to try anymore. And I have regrets now, that I did not try after his affairs, I can't even tell my DD or myself I did everything I could.

Ok, just for the record, this plan A stuff WORKS!

I don't know if it's going to lead to reconciliation, but S told me tonight that for the first time in weeks, he felt love feelings towards me. He told me that he is seeing tremendous changes but he needs to believe these changes are permanent and not some sort of manipulation scheme to get him back.

We had a counselling/mediation session where we didn't discuss our relationship but discussed my mother's influence on the relationship. S says that he has seen me been psychologically abused for 15 years by my mother. He mentionned some of the things that were done to me and said to me that he witnessed over the last 15 years.

He told me that my mother actually TOLD HIM TO LEAVE ME! How CRUEL can she be???? That is the most despicable thing to do to someone. For the record, S didn't leave me because my mother told him to, but thought I should know what was said to him in private.

I never realized I was psychologically abused, but the therapist said it fit... the constant insults (i've been told that I was STUPID my whole life, even though I have been to graduate school and obtained 2 degrees).

The therapist thinks I need serious counseling to break through the cycle of psychological abuse. I have to schedule individual counseling from now on. S refuses further MC for now, he said he needs us to spend some time apart so I can break free from my parents abuse and him to reconnect with himself.

We'll see where that leads.

excelllent stuff MBM... keep up the good work.

"S refuses further MC for now, he said he needs us to spend some time apart so I can break free from my parents abuse and him to reconnect with himself."

This is classic wayward spouse behavior and babble. Be sure to have the PI watch him closely.

It is good that you are working on a little independence from your mother. But don't let hubby use that problem as an excuse for him leaving. I would think he would be EXCITED about MC right now. Instead he is babbling. There is something going on.

I don't know B...if I were her h I would feel the same way. I would never put myself back into that situation until MIL and FIl are put in their appropriate place.

I'm tending to think MEDC is right. My parents have always tried to control our relationship. The first year we were together, when my mom noticed that I was head over heels with the guy... she tried numerous times to fix me up with other people. She had always been opposed to me being with S (like she opposed most of my prior relationships too, except for 1-2 guys). She has led me to believe over the years that S was only after a free ride. True, I was more financially secure than he was, but I don't consider he had a free ride, he has always taken very good care of me, in other ways than financial. In the little things he did everyday for me. In the way he comforted me when I was sad.

I miss him so much, it hurts to think about it.

But, I think I'm in my own sort of fog right now... I don't believe he has another woman. However, I have to keep my head on straight and get proof that there is either 1) no woman or 2) another woman. I have to know what I'm dealing with.

So here's an update.

My folks have been watching me like a hawk, they know I'm working to mend my relationship, and they want to do everything they can to prevent it. Also, they want to prevent S from seeing his kids.

So yesterday morning, DS1 is really really depressed. He says, I want to SEE my dad, not talk to him on the phone! So, I tell him to call him. Dad really misses both kids. He asks to talk to me so we can set somethingup for today (Sunday). I say, you can join us for the kids activities in the morning, and in the afternoon, you can do whatever.

My parents came yesterday at my house, bad mouthing my spouse again, in front of the kids! I said I had enough that I didn't want to talk about it anymore. My mom says, "I'll make sure DS1 doesn't miss his dad". She kept him occupied all day up until he went to bed. After the kids went to bed, I asked my parents to leave... I told them I wanted to be alone with the kids today. They said Ok, but "promise us HE won't see the kids". I didn't answer.

So, this morning S comes over and we leave for the kids activities (karate and swimming). We went out to breakfast after our son's karate lessons. We talked a lot. Our DS1 kept rolling his eyes.

IN the afternoon, I went to meet him at his place and we talked some more. We talked about US. He says he loves me much more than he wanted to admit... he misses the family. He notices that I've been making changes... etc.

At 3PM, my cell phone rings, it's my mom. "Where are you?" I told her that I was at S's place. She said "I KNEW IT! I can't believe how stupid you are" then hung up the phone. I tried to call her back and she didn't answer. I knew right then and there that she had decided to cut me out of her life.

I cried, S consoled me and he said "you made excellent progress as an individual today, getting back your independence, and I love you!" OMG!

We talked and he said he would support me through the process of cutting ties with my parents... it's going to be temporary, but it's necessary for my kids and MY sake.

S came clean on everything he has been hiding. Turns out it's not an affair he's been hiding, but enormous financial debt. Debt he contracted in paying stuff for me that I never even noticed... Lots of things that I took for granted.

We agreed to get back together, under very different terms. He wants to stay in his apartment a few weeks still, just because he says he wants to be alone and make sure I can hold my ground with my parents, but he's giving me all the support I need. He kissed me this afternoon... a real kiss and hugged me... a real hug.

Can you say major ground breaking steps here? All this because of the MB principles I've been using. I'm confident now that we are on the road to recovery. I even convinced him to get on the phone with my phone consultation with Jennifer on Tuesday. He would've never ever ever agreed to that a few weeks ago.

Your parents are sick and twisted and YOU should not attempt any contact with them until they have apologized to you, your H and VOW never to interfere in your family again. Your mom is particularly cruel and deserves no honor, no respect. She is trying to harm your H and using your son to do it! EVIL WOMAN!

Good for you...now stay strong and walk away from these people until they prove themselves.

Write your parents a letter spelling out the conditions for your continued relationship with them and their continued relationship with their grandchildren. It seems your mom is particularly guilty of trying to control things. I would state my boundaries (i.e., no disrespecting your husband and your children's father (especially in front of you or the children), no interference with personal decisions you make, etc.)

Early in my marriage (way early-- and four weeks after the birth of my 1st child) I discovered I was pregnant. (I know, I know... we broke all the rules <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). When my MIL found out she was beside herself. She arranged for me to see a "doctor". I was very young (20), immature and scared of crossing my MIL. After all, they were providing the job for my DH that was providing our income. I went to this appointment just to see what they had to say and to appease her (because abortion went against my own personal beliefs) and it turns out it was an "anti-abortion" clinic. I was horrified. I left the clinic and went straight to her house. I threw the materials on her kitchen table and told her, "How could you even consider something like this for one of your grandchildren?!" I walked out the door.

Even though it made her angry, I drew my line in the sand. It worked. Through the years I have listened to her input but made my own decisions. We are cordial now but she knows better than to try and interfere.