"However, if someone else is pro-name calling or someone's religion teaches them that[/b] name calling[/b] is acceptable & they believe that, I have the respect for others to not shove it down his throat that he's wrong."

Why not defend name calling and condemn abortion with the same zeal you condemned name calling?

What else can be said????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
J

Hey Jer, great post! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What the [email]he@@[/email] are we doing her at 2 something in the morning???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
J

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

ST...my brother has 9 doctors that work for him....he has two therapists in his practice too (it is the largest FP in the Phila suburbs)...they DO NOT EVER, NEVER, EVER write a script for an abortion. NEVER. It does't require objectivity...it requires action...otherwise it is all talk....just like you are a "all talk, no walk" Christian.

I will go a step further ST, IF YOU EVER COUNSEL SOMEONE REGARDING A PREGNANCY AND DO NOT EXPRESS THE OBVIOUS TAKING OF A LIFE THAT ABORTION RESULTS IN...AND THAT PERSON HAS AN ABORTION...YOU TOO HAVE THAT CHILD'S BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS.

Mel, ST and others...thanks for the support. It is funny how this "Christian" will come here and jump on me about name calling...yet, she will defend a person's right to choose abortion if they don't believe blah, blah, blah.

Funny how she failed to address some of the things in the koran that can be done based on ones religious beliefs. Fly a plane into a building....sure, don't call them terrorists or scum bags...they believe they are doing right.


ST...now go over charge for your obviously character lacking objectivity.

I'm sorry but this isn't the first thread I've seen a certain person expressing their abortion belief in a not-so-helpful way on these forums and it is NOT helpful. This is supposed to be a support forum, and just because you believe that abortion is killing a living child then it doesn't need to be spouted on here so aggressively. In fact, the heart does not start beating until approx 6 weeks gestation, so there are different stances that can be taken on it.

Anyway, speaking as someone with experience of how Luis' wife is feeling I wanted to comment on your actions. (I do feel people jump on people much to easily on here. Just my opinion.)



If you are doing as Thinking suggested and talking about it when your wife asks things then, that is a good step. It helped when my H gave me at least some details about what happened. There is nothing worse than imagining all sorts of things which didn't happen.



This is also a good move IMO. It can't be some nasty little secret anymore and your W should be able to see that you are owning up to your actions and are taking on your responsibilities and wanting to make things work. But make sure you do this when and with your W's input because there are some people she may prefer not to know, just yet anyway.



Good and never ever get angry at her. Even if she says something which really winds you up. She is hurting and you have no right to be angry with her at the moment except for maybe if she turned around and said she had done the same. Let her vent. Don't let her hold everything in as it will just boil deep inside and she will eventually blow.



Very VERY important. Any C the OW has with you, tell your W about it. Change your cell number, your email address, let your W know the password/username so she can check, let her see your phone etc. Which leads onto ...



And that extra honesty is needed. Tell her things you don't even think she particularly needs to know. What you have been doing, tell her if you'll be late, if your plans change etc.



This is important. Make her feel loved. Let her know that you are still a family and want it to stay that way.



And don't forget to hold her when the pain isn't necessarily there either.



This is obviously important.



And get her to participate too.



Keep it up.



That will be love and reassurance at the moment. And your helping her build up the trust again. No more lies, not even the tiniest of ones.



Ask her if there's anythingelse you can do.




People say things in anger and when they are scared. Like I've said, it's very easy to think you'd never even consider something until you are in that situation and then your irrational side comes out.

I see people saying lots on here that the person is not doing anything active to make their situation any better. Some suggestions would be good as I sometimes don't know what they are getting at either. I feel like I'm missing something too.

Why does this have to turn into an abortion debate?!

The fact is, abortion is available. Just because someone does not believe in it, does not necessarily mean that anyone who considers or goes through with it are evil and deserve hanging IMO (as seen as everyone else is allowed to express theirs).

And no, I don't think I've ever consider one ... but saying that, I also told myself for years if my H EVER cheated on me, I'd kick him to the curb. Things change and it depends on circumstances.

if it is not helpful to you and you find my approach troublesome...try using your litle ignore feature.
I am not changing for you.

BTW..child porn is available too...doesn't make it right....

If you want to be pedantic, child porn is also illegal.

I'm just saying that IMO the approach does not help the situation. Just expressing my opinions as you are yours.

well...legalities differ from place to place...and I seem to remember abortion being illegal here at one time...as it will be again.

what is illegal in the states is perfectly accepted in other parts of the world. so, if I was speaking to you from a fundamentalist place in the Middle East, I could use the "it's legal" argument to kill a WS.

Sorry, the law has very little to do with what is right/wrong at times.

Hey folks,

I do NOT want to step on anyones toes here... but can we get back to the topic on this thread... helping Luis. I think this went off track and has become an Abortion thread.... (gives me shivers just typing that word).

For Luis.... I think we can take that topic somewhere else? Unless directed at him about the topic? Or...maybe the attacks on one another's beliefs in his thread will enlighten him? Is that the goal?

just my 3 cents... I'll take change is anyone offers.
TOMK

Precisely what I was trying to get at.

TOMK... the abortion issue is germaine to this thread. Luis inserted the idea on here...
there is nothing more important in this thread than that IMO.

Luis, you asked if there's something you're missing, and there is.

Everything you've said and done so far is all about YOUR emotional wants.

There are several people whose lives are affected by what you've done and are doing. But you're seeing them essentially as players in the drama centered on YOU.

You're seeing them as objects, and you're treating them as objects.

You're deciding what your wife's requirements are for her to get through this nightmare. You're essentially trying to manipulate your image in her eyes, so that you can feel better about yourself as seen from her. You're not listening to her, or educating yourself about she might be going through. You're acting paternalistically to impose your solution on her.

You've discarded the OW as an object that no longer pleases you. Whatever her own failings, she's still a human being whom you've misused, albeit with her own consent. But there is no sense of compassion for her in your words.

If the OW IS pregnant, that's likely to be a difficult situation for her. But there's not been a hint that you understand that.

There's not been a hint that you care about the potential life you might have created. I'm sceptical, frankly, about the religious explanation - you don't come across as a person of mature spirituality in any of your other actions or statements, so that sounds like baloney to me. What does your religion feel about adultery?

Start trying to see how other people might be feeling about this situation, and not just about how they're seeing you.

TA

And advocating abortion IS "helpful?" Advocating moral cowardice and moral relativism is "helpful?" Helpful for WHOM, might I ASK? I'll have to disagree with you about what is or isn't "helpful," since you have appointed yourself the expert on this. I find getting KILLED to be quite unhelpful; I think defending moral values can be very "helpful."


and this means ......................? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I have not once said that the best thing this woman can do is abort the child (if indeed there is one).

My point I was making is that I do not think jumping on someone because of your views on abortion differ to their's is helpful in helping them in their situation. I also never once claimed to be an expert <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I am also now confused at what else people are suggesting Luis do here. There only seems to be criticism of what he has done, with hardly any acknowledgement of anything positive. Blimey, people come here for support and advice. Why bother if all you are going to get is aggression and name calling?

I don't for one minute consider what he did was right. I think he does need to own up to the fact that if the OW is pregnant, he has to face up to his responsibilities and try and sort out this mess with everyone involved.

I just don't think calling someone a murderer because of one comment they made helps in this situation. My opinion, as I am entitled to as is everyone else.

look...you have been here what, a day...and you are going to lecture to us as to why people come here. How incredibly rude of you. In fact, many people come here under the guise of seeking help...when in fact they are looking for enabling. Perhaps, being the new kid on the block...if you weren't so quick to run your mouth, you might actually learn something.

I disagree, that may look like that but surely he is doing what is asked in this situation. Being honest. Being loving. Being understanding. If all he is doing is to make him feel better about himself, then what exactly can he do to make things right for his wife?


Again I disagree, how do you come to this conclusion?


Talking to her, letting her rant and also coming here is educating himself on how she is feeling. Yes, he may be able to do more, but at least some acknowledgement for what he is doing wouldn't go amiss.



The OW knew she was just that. Another woman. He had a wife. I don't see it as discarding, I see it as trying to do what is right for his wife, who ultimately (if there is no OC) is the most important person in this situation.



This I agree with and referred to in my previous post.