Hey Hurt,




Mrs. RIF confessed ALL of her A's to me in Dec 2000. She continued to lie about the DETAILS of the different A's for a good while...

My advice is not skewed by other's posts... Mrs. RIF and I have rebuilt our M and the things that I share are based on things that I learned along the way on our rebuilding journey...



A very wise choice... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,

RIF

I also wanted to add...

Mrs. continued to lie about the DETAILS of the various A's because I would blow up at her when she gave me an answer that hurt. I don't think that our MC used the MB principles, but they were very close... when I found MB, I started reading and I had grown tired of trying to pull answers out of Mrs. RIF...

I decided to try the MB principles and make a "safe" place for Mrs. RIF and stop my angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and love busters... It took me a while, but do you know what???

It worked.

If you and your W are counseling with Steve, then you are in the best hands possible. The MB principles really do work. There are "other" methods and "tactics" that you can try... You may be "right", but it could cost you your M.

But if you really want to rebuild your M, rather than be "right", then stick with the MB plan that Steve is giving you...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hey Hurt,

Just checking in with you to see how your session with Steve went...

I hope you're feeling better this morning...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hey Hurt - I was away for a week and only just saw RIF bumped your thread.

My guess is that WW is testing the waters a bit to see how you react to her revelations. If you blow up, she's less likely to be fully open. If you make it safe for her you will likely get to the bottom of the barrel.

Suggesting a lie detector may also make her start singing like a canary.

You really are in good hands with Steve Harley. Things are really looking up for you both.

You can get over this!

To RIF and Big K (I was wondering what became of you), thanks for the encouragement. And thanks to MEDC for providing the 'cautionary' notes. I still beleve that poygraph suggestion is a good one but I still need to run it by Steve and there are still the logistical challenges.

As usual, the session with Steve was very good for me. He's a great listener, well versed in the ways of WWs and BHs, and he has very good insights into how this can turnout.

Basically, what he says is that as WWs come out of the fog, they come to realize that they cannot continue with all the secrets in their histories and they'll usually confess to whatever secrets they have simply because it becomes incompatible with the principle of complete honesty. At that time, it will be up to me to decide whether it is worth it to continue our M or give up if I'm too hurt. This will take time and patience on my part and commitment from both of us. Steve says the primary reasons WSs lie is that it has become their lives, they lie because they are used to it, and they think it is necessary. So we're going to take a slight detour in our recovery plan and study dishonesty so we can both can see what it has done to our M and will do if it continues. All in all, I'm encouraged to believe that even if WW has not told the complete truth up until now, at some point she will. (She says she has told me all her A secrets and that her biggest concern is that I will never believe her). I can live with that for now while we continue to try to heal.

WW has not yet embraced the MB principles but is working on them. I am encouraging her to finish reading the books ASAP. She is feeling very contrite and weak right now but it is my hope that she is waking up.

I know that not every M recovers, but I believe ours has as good a chance as any with the help provided on this forum, by Steve, and the strategies developed by his father. Thanks to all and I'll come back with any developments.

Hey Hurt,

Glad your session with Steve went well.

There are always several different ways to solve a 'problem'... I'm not saying that what worked for me will work for you, that's why I stress the fact that you need to follow Steve's guidance.

You're doing great... I'll be going home on R&R in a couple of weeks, but I'll try to check in once or twice to see how you're doing...

Semper Fi,

RIF

I need a little posting help. How does one use the quote tab?

Hey Hurt,

Click on the Quote button and a set of symbols will pop up in your Post screen... you just copy what you want to put in Quotes, then past it between the symbols...



Semper Fi,

RIF

Hey Hurt,

Haven't seen you around lately... Just wanted to see how you and Mrs. Hurt are doing...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hey Hurt - Just checking in with you to see how things are going...

Semper Fi,

RIF

RIF, thanks for checking on me. I was beginning to wonder if anyone still cared. (Woe is me).

WW and I seem to be not getting anywhere right now. She feels resentful and angry and feels she is being punished by being pressed on MB activities which of course I am enthusiastic about and I would guess she is likewarm about at best. I've been trying to get her to open up about openess and honesty, but I think she has been lying to herself and me about pretty much everything for so long, that she can't see how to be honest now. I think she was comfortable in her cocoon of untruths for so long that she can't see how it can be any different. She keeps saying she is a shallow person who doesn't think about things as deeply and carefully as I do. But neither Steve Harley nor I think she is shallow at all. I believe there is a lot she is still trying to hide from me but I am not sure what. Could be more infidelity, or something entirely different.

I have decided that for now we'll just continue with MC with Steve, and see if he can motivate her to act sooner rather than later or not at all. At some point I'll have to decide whether I want to continue with her or not.

She keeps asking me about how can I trust her again and I keep telling her I won't much, at least for the forseeable future. But I keep telling her it is her actions that will do the most for reassuring me that I can trust her. So far, her actions are not very comforting to me as she is in the habit of revealing truth only in dribs and drabs.

Still no NC letter so I'm thinking that she is still addicted but not admitting it.

Thanks for checking on me. It's really great to know there are people who care. I hope someday I can help others as well.

Hey Hurt!

Good to see you again...

What you're describing is VERY typical... Your W isn't very 'enthusiastic' and you are frustrated by her "lack of enthusiasm"...

This is where you as the BH, get to put on your patience cap... be patient and try NOT to LB. Every fiber of your being will scream that she should "get it" and be willing to work as hard as you're working... you'll feel that "it's not fair"... you'll question why you're even bothering with rebuilding...

It takes time for her to get to a point where she is on-board with rebuilding. Others may tell you to press harder, but I can tell you from personal experience, that that will most likely push your W further away...

Yes, you DO deserve answers to your questions, you DO deserve her to be open and honest... If you will stick with Steve and let him guide you both through this, you will stand a better than average chance of rebuilding your M.

You and your W didn't "arrive" where you are right now in a couple of weeks... it will take some time to work through this.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Thanks, RIF. Even before you posted your last, I called WW and told her that we needed to move off the R talk until she feels more comfortable with it. I also told her that I didn't think she could be coerced into falling in love with me so I am willing to be patient. I told her my only requirement was that we continue MC with Steve.

Great news an hour ago. WW says she has written an NC letter. I'm looking forward to reading it. Hopefully it will say what it needs to say. Up until now she has not embraced the NC principal so I hope she has now.

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my posts. I am still not through this by a long shot, but the only reason I have made it this far is the help I have received here.

Hey Hurt!

Thanks for the update... That's GREAT news on the NC letter. You are both still very early in the rebuilding process and NC is one of the key "first" baby steps that you'll have to work through.

You're doing a great job!!! It's going to be hard, but now that you've told your W that you are willing to be patient... you need to follow through with it. I can almost assure you that your patience will be tried!

Journaling my anger helped me to not blast Mrs. RIF when she was not rebuilding as "quickly" as I thought she should have been...

Thanks again for the update and keep up the great work!

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hurt - She's in withdrawal. Just keep out of her way till her mood starts improving. This is entirely typical....

I'm trying to remove myself fom R talk entirely but it is very difficult. I am getiing a little despondent, I guess because it is six weeks since D-Day and we're just starting to move.

I just got off the phone with WW and she told me she had some questions for me and I said I had some for her as well. And she said with trepidation "What?" and I said I just need to ask her how to best meet her ENs for our MC homework. She said, "I never know what you're going to ask", and I said I don't want her to fear me. This is very discouraging as somehow she thinks she is being punished. The times she said she felt "ambushed" were as Steve pointed out when she was called out about lying.

Any ideas on how I can overcome this? I have hardly raised my voice at her since D-Day although many times I felt like it. I have LB'd in other ways but not anger or threats. I'm trying to keep our converstions light and off the R topic.

Hey Hurt!

I hear you... patience is a hard thing to learn. I know that six weeks seems like a long time, but it's still very early. Your desire is to really start rebuilding and your W is still fairly early-on in the NC withdrawal stage. It will take some more time for her to "catch up" with you.


In your example, you made an open ended statement: "I've got some questions for you too." Open ended statements let the receiver think whatever they want to think, and in your W's case, she naturally thinks you're going to "bash" her so she gets defensive.

Try being more specific with your statements... "That's great honey, I'd love to answer your questions." "I've been working on the EN questions and I'd really like to know how I can better meet your ENs"

You don't have to walk around on egg shells, but there are always several ways to "deliver" your message. The more specific you are, the less likely that she will become defensive...

Semper Fi,

RIF

It's also pretty much a given she will automatically be defensive at the moment.

Thanks, guys. Good advice, to the point, and certainly something I can do.

WW is really struggling with this honesty issue. She feels hopeless about whether I will ever believe her again or not. I've asked her to try to follow the steps in the Dishonesty chapter in "Lovebusters", but she really has a hard time with the concepts. Does anyone have any experience in overcoming dishonesty and in particular lying as a defensive strategy? WW says that all the times she lied it was because she feared me but that makes no sense to me and a bit of a rewrite of our history since she was lying about her life before we were married.

Is your wife the kind who would be able to live with a guilty conscience?