And since you love her and don't wish to see her hurt, you are supportive of her making that choice, right?

Yes I have to, its her decision and I have to respect that. I think she may have been saying stuff out of anger earlier. I know she spoke with our counsler on the phone for a bit. Dunno what outcome came of that.

Well, Zach, a lot has happened since I last posted. Good on you for telling her the truth and answering her questions. And you may have to answer them over and over again.

And she is right. You will NEVER know how bad it hurts when the one person who is supposed to have your back betrays you.

Yes I will never know, and it hurts me so bad to know I did that to her and I had everything in front of me and I destroyed it. I will do anything possible to have her back in my life, but thats her decision, i hope she fights through this. Im still trying to get her to read the book but she still hasnt. I do think it would help her a bit.

Shes at her friends again, she gets fairly angry at me when I speak to her now, its like we're doing everything all over again, I love her so imma fight through this and do everything possible to better myself.


Thank you all for the help, and please give me any advice!

You might try writing to her and telling her how sorry you are. But of course she will want to know why you were so willing to toss everything away so easily.

Yeah a while back at the beginning I did....


Ill write up another one tonight.


Shes basically ignored me tonight, she went out with her friend at her house and I havent heard anything out of her.

She knows tomorrow is a tough day for me cause thanksgiving last year, found out my 25 year old cousin was found dead in his bedroom that morning, and it was very rough on our whole family. She knows its a tough day and I asked her if she could come visit, she said she'll see. I hope she does.

Sorry to hear about your cousin. Yes, it will be a hard day.

Also while you are think on this stuff, figure out how she can be sure this will never happen again.

Thank you, I just talked to her actually, shes almost asleep at her friends house. She sounds so wore out.


Believer- How can i prove this? Ive told her everything I can and tonight my friend called me wanting me to go to a club with a couple of attractive girls. But I turned them down cause I told him it wouldnt be a good idea considering im working on my marriage. I dont know how I can prove this to my wife, im doing everything possible.

You are right there - it "wouldn't be a good idea" since you are MARRIED. I'm wondering why your friend would even THINK a married man would go out.

I'm worried about you.

Yeah I agree.

But im not going to put myself in those situations anymore like I have in the past.


One thing my wife is having a problem with is she knows I had an Emotional attachment with the girl, the girl showed her all our conversations and stuff, and my wife reads them over and over and it eats her up. Any advice I should give my wife for all of this, im just stuck at what to do and its not looking good.

My parents invited my wife to come over to eat today but shes eating with her parents at the same time, I spoke with her for like 30-40 mins on the phone and she was just bashing me for what ive done and I explained how I hoped I got the chance to prove to her I can be a better husband to her, and she would just say "i dont know", she doesnt think she can move on and just forget about it. She says shes embarrassed cause everyone knows ect. She said she might stop by this afternoon.


I need some good advice today, its been a rough day and its only 12pm.

Hang in there, Zach. "I don't know" is better than some other things she could say.

Thinking about you today, and praying for your marriage.

Thank you so much, that does help hearing that. Ill give you an update at the end of the day.

It does hurt so bad to hear my wife tell me things like....


"thank god you didnt get me pregnant cause I dont know what I would do then"

and

"im glad I didnt let you have sex with me after you were with her like I did in the past"

Ok ive been reading through the forums all day today...One thing that makes me wonder is..


I see all these threads about the wifes that post that their husband has left them and they want them back ect. ect. Its like in my case its the opposite, ive noticed very few of the WS's come here to beg for their wifes back. I find it odd seeing all these BS's wanting their WS's to come back to them. Why is my wife and I story the total opposite?

Been cooking and composing, Zach. Both took some time.

There have been many men in your shoes...not total opposite. You're not alone.

Others have given you right on advice. I'm going to add to it, since I saw your post on SP's thread.

When your BW speaks, listen and repeat. This means you fully focus on what she says and you repeat what you heard. "I hear you are relieved you didn't get pregnant because it would have added to your hurt and confusion right now, is that correct?"

"I'm hearing you are relieved and happy you didn't have sex with me after I'd been unfaithful because you did in the past."

This isn't a parroting technique...it's so you really hear what she's saying, even though you may already think you do, and offering for her to confirm you heard as she intended or to clarify if you didn't.

This is an act of respect. Has many consequences...your own clarity, truly listening (not just hearing), it's partnering (not parenting), and shows you what is her truth, separate from the truth.

It honors and cherishes. The new road you are on.

In between reading your whole thread, I was making deviled eggs and talking to my DH in our kitchen. As most often happens, he hit on something new for me by him sharing and me listening and repeating. I made two batches...one from a recipe our DS18 found and wanted, and my traditional one. I let them lick the bowls and beaters as my taste testers. My DS18 really likes his choice, and as I handed the platter to DH to put the final touch (black olives) on them, DS18 grabbed an egg and ran out.

Reminded us of a dog we had who would grab food and run to eat it. I didn't say to the dog what I yelled after DS18..."Hey, don't do that!"

LOL

Anyway, DH said..."I wonder if that's an old thing from when we were cave men...where we would grab and run with food, to survive, like all those animal shows depict."

I repeated and added, "I can see that as an instinct. How about with other humans? Could our way of not seeing the difference between possession and love come from that old/new brain overlap? Like steal the woman away, horde her, to protect her from attack and others stealing and running?"

I love these conversations, btw.

And I thought of you...I detected a possessive point of view with your BW, premarital. Thing is, if you believe (and you gotta look deep and honestly inside to know) you manipulated her into getting with, staying with you, marrying you, (and our tools are lies, denying, changing reality), then her choosing to leave will look like her only choice and you'll miss all the choices inbetween.

And see where you really do want to love actually, honor and cherish...because it fills you up with love, makes you honorable, feels like you're cherished. Sound selfish?

In the beginning of your thread, I perceived you wanted to change and her to see your changes and be persuaded to come back. Thing is, if someone chooses to come back, and our perception is we made them, we don't value their choice (we don't see it...in a small part of us, we made them return...so the manipulation continues...because the belief we can does).

You were desperately seeking signs of her change of heart...in each word, smile, not smiling, connection, disconnection...to prove to you that hope wasn't silly. It isn't silly. It's a choice you make...same for despair.

When you choose hope, you will feel hopeful. If you are looking for evidence of her instead of seeing her, her choices, her truth...then you are looking at the results to prove the existence of love, hope, and a lot of other stuff.

Backwards.

Plan A is you choosing to act on your choice to love her...not dependent on her possible reactions to you. At the beginning, you were disconnecting from her as a manipulation...that didn't work. She disconnected from you in distraction with her GF. You hated that. Don't do to others what you hate done to you. Get balance. You connect and let the response go.

You listen and repeat it...know it...do not direct yourself from it. That ends manipulation. You act to your code, not based on outcome. Outcome is out of your control...because you're a human being, not because you're not manipulating hard enough.

You only came into higher honesty recently...again, you lied to control the outcome...her response. See any respect in that? Respect that she chooses, her truth is valid, and not in your control?

Remember feeling she was controlling asking you so many questions about where you were, what you did? When you feel controlled, that's a sure sign you're bent on controlling others. It's normal...it's your self communicating with you...kicks in your fear of being taken over, being known, smothered, manipulated...because that's what you're doing...so you experience love that way.

Not crazy, bad or wrong. God doesn't do that. God shows you how to love, act from respect, have real intimacy without engulfment or abandonment...right smack in the middle of two very real and great fears.

You're responsible for getting your own signals, Zach. They are to you, about you, from your beliefs. You've changed a lot of beliefs...life started making a lot more sense to you recently...and it was tougher and tougher to live in deception as you had been.

When you choose to act to your code, include honesty. You speak honestly and let the outcome go...then God can work. You lie and manipulate, you cut out more than relationships with other humans...you cut out yours with God.

About your anger with her GF's influence. Would you consider that really rattles you because you had that kind of influence for four years, and now, someone else has it? Is that influential over your BW? Another signal...not saying you were bad or wrong. Please get the signal and examine it to know, not to judge yourself. I'm not condemning you. See, your BW controls who influences her and to what degree...like opening a door just a crack, or wide open, or somewhere in between. She shut that door of influence on you. My DH did this, also, during his A and other times in our marriage. Felt like I didn't exist, had no control, was worthless...and I'd done it to myself.

We can experience what isn't real, Zach. Learn about human beings and their limits and power...you're one of them. You control who influences you and how much...you've already experienced widening and closing that door (each person has their own door in our lives). Sure can feel like you control your BW's door. You don't. You never did or will.

Respect that truth, 'k?

Applies to why you riled at BW when she shared "someone saying" about the time with your FOW. An unknown rumor can't get in a closed door. Hers was open...but not to you. Feels like free fall and terror. It's consequences. Not good or bad...just coming on, echoing, endlessly.

And consequences do. Get to know that. Every word and action of yours ripples. Which is why you choose from your code (which you choose yourself), so you know you own those consequences, both natural and logical ones...you know what you control and what you do not.

Feel your emotions and trace them to the belief in you they are coming from. For instance, do you believe anger is the opposite of love? The end of it?

Are you asking for dates with BW? Please do so. You asked what do you do when she comes over or you guys go out...I advise you to play. No R talk. Look up the Recreational inventory here on this website...offer new things you haven't experienced together...and play. Be with each other in presence so you learn to value your presence (not what you can do to earn love/punishment)...and focus on appreciating her presence, totally her choice, within her power...and you'll begin to see where people are gifts...make gifts of their presence, beyond our control.

You have a new set of amends to make. Would you consider taking three days and writing out each action you took which attacked your relationship/marriage...owning you what you did, why you did it, and what's different in you now to know you won't choose to do it again? Those are real amends. We can't change a single action/word we took or spoke in the past. We can amend in the present. You began this verbally...written lasts. You keep a copy on the wall of your room, along with your written code...lots of homework.

Ugh, huh?

LOL

I did this...I'm not advising you anything I didn't do, 'k?

Do you doubt you've changed sometimes? Here's how you can know the difference...

You've changed your beliefs...there are thousands of them in you, btw...accurately, you've changed some really important ones...which means you'll experience new results (emotions/signals) from them. Feels like you changed. However, if you continue to choose to react to your emotions instead of act from your beliefs, you'll be experiencing life in the same pattern. You stayed faithful when you felt like it...and when you didn't feel loved, you went off to prove you were lovable (guessing here)...entitled to get what you needed. If you felt fear, you ran; when you felt safe, you acted loving...these are suggestions, not your realities. Dig for them.

You cannot amend anything you've done with knowing why.

You CAN write down what you were thinking while you were choosing, seducing, having sex with another woman. Takes you being in your highest honesty right now, who you are now, looking as if at a distance to the past honestly.

Here's some ideas (find out what resonates in you)...go with emotions...admiration, clean slate, desired, coveted, acceptance, approval...what? Short-cut to being a real man can look like a conqueror...you dig and find...if you find the emotion...trace it to the belief...see where the distortion came in, the fantasy. You may not having been feeling like a man but a boy (conflict with loved ones can trigger this). You forage in there...you already know you chose...and you chose to react to your feelings at the time instead of act to your code (didn't have one, I'd bet).

I didn't either.

You're worth finding out your why's. Your responsibility.

Get your language real...you can experience your real power and limits. Hear your "every" "all" "nothing" the extremes...stop and listen to yourself (listen and repeat really helps you grow this respect muscle)...hear if these words are really what you feel/believe or automatic, trying to hold more than they can or less.

When you say you're doing everything...you lock yourself into a corner. You're not in one. You are doing this, this, this and that...you are being this, that, and this, too...that's a whole lot of change. It's not everything and it's not nothing...no corners, see?

Honesty is powerful

Do a search on MB for "Joseph's letter". Help give you a new perspective on her 1000's of questions, 'k?

Respect...don't repeat requests...repeat apologies with ownership. Listen and repeat. Don't ask over and over again...disrespects others. They know. They heard the first time. They choose. Get this signal...repeating is your intent being to get them to make you safe through some choice. Manipulation is sneaky...get to know it. It's isn't bad or wrong part of you...it served a purpose a long time ago...from you fearing. Now you gotta act fearlessly...which means HOLDING and KNOWING your fear and NOT acting from it.

New you. New actions. New experience.

Do more than turn down...draw a boundary with your friend who called to go out. If he's not a friend of your marriage, then he's not a friend. You drew your boundary too far around temptation...you don't even want the offers, correct? You want friends who respect and support your marriage--enough to say, "Dude, what are you doing?" Real friends bring out the best in us for the see it clearly; they don't encourage us in destruction. That's how you can tell the difference between an acquaintance and a real friend.

You're worth real friends. So is your marriage.

Did you get tested for STDs? If not back then, do so now. Part of the owning your consequences...good self-care and care for The Marriage (it's like the third part you guys were missing...was still there).

Now about DJs...study Love Busters...get the book from the library...this is what changed my life the most, first.

I'm outta time so here are the rest of my notes:

Now change your DJs...they are kicking your own butt (smiley face for her away message).

Keep up the predetermined progressive boundary enforcements on her AO's and DJs...

Remember fear of abandonment...real fear...from your previous abandonment (brain hands her that cumulatively)...so before you hang up, set a time in place for when you'll call back...same for in person. You abandoned her for a week. Her fear is real and your actions hit her at her core. Understand this. Along with abandonment is rejection...she may see this in many ways and be loyal to those until she believes they are rejecting/abandoning her.

Now time for my family and DH...my very best to you. Know you're whole, complete, and marvelously made from the hands of God. So is your BW. Be still, listen and understand your pain isn't what you live from...it's a result of your beliefs right now. Your fear of abandonment is real, too. Like her leaving wipes you out...takes all that you were away.

Which is what she felt when you cheated on her.

Get to know what you feel as well as hear what she does.

You can do this. You are fighting FOR your marriage...not fighting her for it, 'k?

LA

Loving Anyway, I first want to thank you so much to care enough to accept my inivte to ready through 10 pages of my thread and then give me an amazing response like you did, im defiently going to read through it a few times again.

On the us hanging out ordeal, she told me she would stop by here in a few hours. But I know shes going to talk about the R. I doubt she will wanna go anywhere, its hard enough to get her to come over. Its not easy to get her to come over, I really almost feel shes so hurt shes trying to tell herself to move on but at the same time she wont just end it? I just got back from our old house to get some stuff out, and I broke down and cried like a baby looking at our honeymoon pictures, cause in everyone of them she was smiling and so happy and I havent saw that in a long time, I miss that so much. I hate myself for hurting someone so nice and someone that would give anything in the world to me and never hurt me.

I have a tough time figuring out what still is making her hold on , cause her actions just shoots everything down. She went out to a bar last night with her girlfriend. She did tell me that on her own this morning.

I got some of the stuff out of our old house, and I hung a few pictures up in my room. I know when she comes over shes going to ask a ton of questions and wanna know why. I know shes going to go on and on about our R.

She really hurt my feelings earlier and I deserve it. I told her I was at the old house and acting like a baby.
She said... "Well the last time u were at our house was when you were in bed with that girl".

I can only hope and pray for the best. Thank you so much LA for that post. Im going to go look up Joseph's letter now, and then read your post a few more times.


While shes here, I may and try to get her to make a thread on here and see if I can get her involved on MB. She still hasnt started reading the book I bought her.

Bump Believer or anyone give me advice on how not to get her to dwell and talk about our R? I know shes going to probably bash me if she comes over here and tell me how wrong ive been ect. What should I do to build love deposits ect.?

Zach,

You're welcome.

About her coming by...you can play there. We're playing cards...video games...charades...be creative. Tap into what brought you together...word games...not competing...playing. Together.

Be prepared to listen and repeat. If she yells at any point, stating she's yelling and say you won't stay present if she continues...because you can't hear her when she's yelling. You really want to hear her. If she continues, say you're removing yourself for 15 minutes to calm yourself down (actual drugs are released in your body and they cease having an affect after so many minutes) and you make sure you return...whether she's remains or not.

You don't get her to come over...you ask and she chooses. You choose to ask. Kudos on asking.

Don't go into her head and think for her...that's DJ groundwork. Don't lay it. Stay in your own head.

You've hurt yourself a lot. Half of your tears are for you, too. Share with her that information...just as you did here...going back to your house, seeing the honeymoon pictures...share what you did, where you went, what you thought and felt.

That's your responsibility.

You don't deserve to be hurt nor does she. Truth is, both of you hurt, a lot. Get to know it. Own your feelings...they are yours.

You don't know if she'll go on and on or not. Stop predicting the future. Begin focusing on your choice to act from respect or react to your perceptions, your emotions...

One way has gotten you here. The other will get you a whole new life experience.

Choose wisely.

LA

Great post LA...Thank you. I may try to get her to start a thread on here and see if she goes with it.

I know at some point she is going to start bashing me telling me how bad I make her feel and all. I just spoke with her on the phone and she was talking normal and out of nowhere just bashed me on something. I deserve it so thats just fine even though it kills me.

I talked wit her mom and dad also a second ago on the phone and told them to have a happy thanksgiving and sorry for everything ive put them through and I told them my intentions on changing myself and being a better husband for my W.

Hope all goes well ,she said shes going to take a shower and then come over here, if she does it who knows, but we'll see.


Happy Thanksgiving LA, thanks again. Ill be here if you have anything else to post. Im addicted to this site <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />