Parents who "stay out of it" are enablers. They enable WS's to have no consequences to the wayward behavior.


I find this incredibly sad. HER mom ADORES YOU??? Have you disclosed the FULL truth of your actions against her daughter and your marriage?? If so, surely, she still doesn't "adore" you. If she does, it's NO WONDER her daughter doesn't talk with her. That would be major betrayal.


If she has, as you say above, "sided with you which she's told her tons of times", then it is VERY HEALTHY for your BW to run from her mother as well as you. Her mother is not a safe person for her. This is all very sad.

Especially not knowing where she is??!!

This is YOU not liking that you are not in control. This goes back to control, Zach. You can't stand that you don't know where she is? It really is none of your business where she is. You gave up that right when you slept with OW (the FIRST OW).

All about you again, Zach. YOU just had to text her. Did you consider whether sending a text was in the best interest of HER. No, because the text you sent was an attempt to manipulate...again.


You don't honestly believe that you are all she's ever wanted, do you??? You are a wife's worst nightmare. This text was your attempt to make her feel bad for not wanting to wait around.



The apology letter was just that...an apology. It should have had no strings attached. Yet, you are pushing her for an answer about reconciliation??? What's up with that. So from her perspective, you apologized so you could get what you want...reconciliation. A genuine apology would be about her...not about manipulating her to "feel" what you want her to feel.


GOOD FOR HER!!!!

I understand SMB. Her mom just wants the best for both of us together or seperated, shes a very kind hearted person and very forgiving. Not saying her mother loves me from what I done to her, her mom is very forgiving and see's Ive truly changed and continue to do so. She is upset from what ive done and all but she knows we cant change that now.

The past 3-4 days ive learned a lot about myself and my Wife. Ive finally been able to not worry 24/7 where she is and what shes doing now. I trust her and hope the best for her.


As far as my parents, its a long long story about us. But my mom and dad think we should go seperate ways and doesnt think we can ever come back together and be happy in the longrun, but I disagree so we dont discuss it. They know im trying and are proud im in church now. My father Im not going to get into a discussion about.

I think SMB has a good point Zach:

"One major point I need to make, Zach. Stop using her mother (or any of her family), friends, counselor/minister as your spy. You are destroying any support network she could have. Of course she doesn't confide in her mother, because you have confessed here that her mother tells you what your wife is doing or saying. Her "friend" does the same thing. Your wife needs people to talk to without worrying about you using them to gain intel on her. You complain about the new friend she has, but that is probably her ONLY support network right now."

I was feeling a little uneasy about how she is distant from her mother right now and your saying something about her mother seemingly being on your 'side'.

My thoght was that it was inappropriate for her mother to be 'siding' with you against her daugher because her daugher has every right to divorce you for what you did. In fact, I would not want any of my three daughters to stay with someone who did that to them! Of course, IF my daughter wanted to try to save her marriage then I would support and advice her in doing so IF I believed her WS was truly changed. I don't see why her mother would not support her choice either way as log as it was best for her daughter.

On the other hand you'd said that your parents would support you whatever you chose. That sort of bothered me too. Would they support it if you resumed ocntact with the OW? Would they support you if your wife wanted to econcile but you wanted to divorce her to purseu the OW or a bachelor lifestyle?

You may have answered this already, I will read your newer posts.

Just wanted to say that although at times you do seem more sincere now... at other times you say things that don't jive with a WS who is truly changed and really gets it now...

Well my wife texted me and told me to call her.

She got the job! Making $6 more a hour! Shes making almost the same money I do which is awesome. She was very happy she had gotten it. Im so proud of her.

It was nice to hear from her, she wasnt angry at all, it was like her old self again and she talked and talked and talked, she even was asking me questions and I didnt have to do all the talking. We talked about general stuff, I didnt even get to eat my lunch cause she talked to much lol. She said she thinks we need this time apart to do what we need to do for ourselves. I agreed. We didnt really talk much about our Relationship, which is fine by me.

She had no anger, she talked her head off, she was joyful and everything. She said she still tears up when she hears songs and such. I told her time apart is good for us and im happy shes doing all of this on her own and proud of her new job.

"She is upset from what ive done and all but she knows we cant change that now."

Does you MIL understand that YOU will have to do a lot of work for a LONG time to compensate to her daughter and that her daughter should in no way be expected to give you another chance, let alone do so quickly and easily?

There is a LOT that can and needs to be done to change how it happened in the first place and to help her daughter deal with the aftermath.

I hope she doesn't think it's as simple as forgive and forget because you can't change the past!

My parents dont really care a whole lot for me, they havent really ever done much for me and my brothers get everything they want. Ive always been very independent and done everything myself and worked hard for everything i have, my brothers are the exact opposite. I cant help my parents dont support me either way thats out of my reach. Ive basically been mentally abused by my father all my life, hes so damn negative and always cussing me and yelling at me over something stupid. Im not going to get into that right now.


My MIL, just wants the best for us, she knows its my W's decision. Shes a very caring person, she understands i have a ton of work to do and we have a long ways to go.

"Yes as tough as it is, I need to let her go and leave her alone. Everytime I do this she seems to send me a message or something asking what im doing, like yesterday, didnt talk to her most of the day and she sends a message asking what im doing."

OK, what I am seeing here is that you sometimes stop contacting her for a period of time BECAUSE you've noticed that when you do that she will contact you. And that reassures YOU, right Zach? It makes YOU feel better and comforted that maybe she is still interested in you, or worried about what you are up to?

Other times you obsessively contact her TOO MUCH and indiacte that you expect specific positive responses from her. So when you DO contact her it's for your own benefit too.

Then there's the context of the contact too:

If she acts all cheerful, doesn't bring up the adultery, acts like her old self: you are pleased...
If she brings up the adulteries or is upset: you feel sorry for yourself because she's being 'hateful' to you... or you stop contacting her for a while until she 'calms down'...
(or to punish her so she will know she has to be 'nice' the next time?)

Again, regardless of whether you increase or decrease contact, you're giving it away that your purpose is for your own benefit.

That is why we've been hesitant at times to tell you what specifically to say or do. Instead we've tried to get you to understand that YOU have to change yourself and THEN you will know without us having to give you a script what a truly repentent, changed man says and does.

"I cant help my parents dont support me either way"

I thought you had said that your parents supported you whatever? I will go back to see if I misinterpreted your post.

"My parents support me either way I go, they have stayed out of it really."

OK, that's what I thought I'd read.

Also, I saw where you posted that your parents do NOT think reconciliation will work and think you two should divorce.

That's not exactly 'supporting' of saving the marriage, Zach. IMHO, that's not even 'staying out of it'.

So from your BW's POV:

Her own mom is not supporting her right to not want to risk giving you yet another chance;
and instead of staying out of it she is in contact with you and supporting what you want and how you feel.

Her FIL and MIL want you two to divorce;
and they are not supporting her with contact

Zach when you say your parents think the two of you should divorce, and that they are 'staying out of it', whould they support your wife if SHE did want to reconcile but you resuemd contact with the OW and wanted the divorce?

I personally don't believe anyone who 'supports' an adulterer divorcing the BS, even if they might ALSO support the WS reconciling with the BS, as neutral. But in your case, it doesn't seem as if your parents support reconciliation at all really.

Perhaps they feel she'll be better off without him? Zach said they had a low opinion of him.

My parents think if we got back together we would go back to how we were before fighting and aruging all the time, but what they dont realize and Ive told them that the fighting and such was because of me and my stupid actions.

Theres a bunch yall dont know bout her parents, her dad is a big time serial cheater and I know he still see's this OW, and he found out a guy that works with hangs out with the OW's son. When he found out my friend at work told me, he called me and told me there was nothing bwt them anymore ect. and he would appreciate it if I wouldnt say nothing. I really dont want to tell my MIL cause I think it will screw me and my W's chances of getting back together cause she will get very angry I told. And also she thinks a lot of her dad and listens to him a lot and does anything in the world for him. I dont want to start that mess in the middle of ours. Her mom has been unhappy for most of her life causes shes forgiven him time and time again. And my W knows hes had affairs and see's her mom isnt happy at times and doesnt want to live like her. Thats came out of her own mouth.


Its just a long history bwt both of our familys.

Hey Zach:

Just wanted to say congratulations on the phone call and it appears you handled that well.

I also want to say that I find some of the comments on your thread, IMHO, to not be very helpful. What use is it to give advice on how your MIL should think? As if you can control her. I don't find that at all helpful, and frankly, if she is in support of people working at saving a marriage, and building a marriage that is full of trust and love, I think that is a good thing. Obviously, I don't think the MIL would be supportive of you if you continued in behavior that you had in the past.

Remember that this site is just advice. In the end, you make the choice, and you live with the consequences. Most of the people on this site are also people who are learning as they go, including me, so keep that in mind.

Thanks OMWH, My MIL just wants the best for us and us to be happy thats all, shes not getting in the middle of us, she just cares for us dearly and wants us happy in the end. She knows im sorry for what ive done and sees me changing.

Thanks for the appreciation on the call.

I am open to anyones opinion on this site weather it may seem harsh or nice. Im here to learn and believe it or not this site has changed me so much even though you guys on here may not see it day to day.

Onmyway- How r u liking this December weather we're having? LoL... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I find coddling a serial cheater (who has cheated THROUGHOUT the entire relationship) who only now wants his wife back because she may finally be done with him as not helpful.

He needs some 2X4's. Lots of them. The ones he's been given he just breezes over. He says he understands, but then continues with the same controlling, manipulative behavior that you keep praising him for.


That was my whole point. He IS trying to control her (MIL), by manipulating his relationship with her to get intel on his BW. It is obvious. But he is so grounded in this kind of behavior (manipulation and control), that he doesn't even see that he is doing it. My 2X4s are to get him to SEE that this is WHAT he IS doing.

Until he begins to see that he is doing this, he will continue to do it. And if he is continuing in that kind of behavior, I will not aid him in any way at "winning the affections" of his BW.


Until the manipulating, controlling behavior is eliminated, trust and love cannot be built.

One step at a time...Zach must deal with his manipulating, controlling behavior before he can ever begin to start building trust and love.




Uhm, no, this isn't obvious. There are many sick families out there. Quite honestly, both of these families sound very dysfunctional.

And Zach IS continuing in behavior that he had in the past...manipulation and control. He is still a typical wayward. I still see the basic wayward attitude of entitlement and selfishness throughout all of his posts.


It baffles me that you are supporting him so completely when he really hasn't yet defogged from his wayward thinking.

Yes, that is true. I have searched your username and cannot find YOUR story here.

Most of us spend months here posting and working through our own stories, all the while learning MB principles and beginning to see familiar patterns in behavior in WS's. Most of us don't post advice for several months until we start to feel we've read enough MB articles, MB books, and MB posts to maybe have a little insight to help someone implement the MB approach.

Could you share your story on a new thread so that we get to know you and understand how you have faced infidelity and worked the MB principles in your own life?

Zach:

Yes, it's great! I'll enjoy it even more if I can find a way to get out and play tennis!

SMB, I will answer but I will keep it short. I don't want to hijack Zach's thread.

First, I don't think I am coddling Zach. I am supportive of his effort to change his behavior and save his marriage, and generally speaking, I am against divorce, except in the case of the three A's: abuse, addiction, and adultery. I find that he has made changes, and continues to follow through, for example, he wrote the apology letter, the NC letter, and changed his cell phone number.

Second, I think it is a stretch to say that he is manipulating the MIL. I think you are reading into that situation. I make the assumption that she is a good person who loves her daughter, and believes that the marriage is worth saving. I believe all people are good until I have proof otherwise.

Third, I have read and posted on here for months. I have another thread that has the issues that I am currently dealing with, and its pretty easy to find. If you want to discuss my views or my situation, please respond to my thread and not Zach's.

Thanks for both of your opinions, Im not going to get ill if yall debate some here thats fine.

But my Family is not sick....

My parents accidently got pregnant with me at the age of 17 years old. My parents soon got married before I was born and has raised 3 fine children that have great success in everything to do. And my parents have been married since and not have had a struggle through their relationship. They just won an award at the class renuion for being the couple that stayed together the longest since High School. My dad may have some anger issues at times and he may need help at times dealing with how to discuss a problem but they have been great people and they love my wife dearly. In face this job my W just got making $15+ a hour, was because of my mom got it for her. My mom raised 2 boys at the age of 18years old and was married, poor, and going to college at the same time, and graduated as an R.N and makes close to 100k a year now. No1 Gave her anything, shes earned everybit of it. I look to my mom as a hero to me. My family is not ill. You dont know my family so please dont make that assumption. My W's family has some serious issues, yes, but they are very kind hearted people and will do ANYTHING to help someone.

Her mother doesnt support Infidelity or support what ive done, shes a true loving kind hearted person. At times when ive needed anything shes been there, she loaned me $600 one time so I could pay my bills, and I worked crazy over time to repay her back. She loves me to death as her own son, thats what it comes down to.


Ive came A LONG WAYS even though some of u may not see it here. Im doing my damn best to turn my life around and all the people around me seeing these changes. I mean look where I started, and look how far ive came since then. Im doing nothing but supporting what my W is doing and im not asking anything or saying anything out of line to her.


Thank you, continue posting

Off to bed tonight I guess.....


Saw her uptown earlier and I saw her dropping her friends off at their cars, not sure where she went or anything, I havent spoken with her since today at lunchtime. It hurt though.


Hope everyone has a great night!

Zach:

How small is the town you live in? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You will talk to her again soon, be patient.