Tst, Im still donig this, I should have something up for you tomorrow afternoon, remember I work 10+ hour days and I had church tonight. Im tired, I couldnt sleep at all last night. Just relaxing tonight.


Yes its very easy to get side tracked!

That's tough!

Well, you can borrow one of mine if you need one, but not Snoopy-- he is my favorite.

One time, a long time ago, I made a CD that captured the mood I was in, actually it was after a breakup. Didn't really help, but it kept me busy for a bit. Are you into music?

Yes I love music. Im actually burning me a cd as I type this lol


These last 2 days has been rough, I woke up this morning and I feel depressed again. Hope today gets better.

Zach,

You need to be cautious of your pity parties. It can get old for BS's trying to HELP YOU.

I've walked in your wife's shoes. It's pretty hard to pity someone like you. I offer help because if you can get turned around, that will be less pain for another BS...and maybe spare your next wife the same pain.

However, yesterday you were back to, "my wife this, my wife that." This is no longer about your wife (really never was!). This isn't even about your marriage. This IS about YOU. I really don't want to see another post about what your wife is doing or saying or what you think she is feeling.

What are YOU doing and saying.

For your own personal growth, which happens to be the only way you have a SHOT at having a long term happy marriage with your wife or anyone else, you need to LEAVE HER ALONE and deal with your issues.

And Zach, it is very, very apparent that you have issues that need worked through. Issues from your childhood that cause you to do what you do. They will creep up again until you deal with them and put them to rest. That doesn't takes days or weeks. It takes months or years. And until you have done that, leave your wife the he(( alone.

As some say, either [censored] or get off the pot.

Find a counselor and be done pursuing your wife. It God intends to heal your marriage, He'll do it all on His own.

You (and onmywayhome) keep trying to take a plan that was designed for BS's and make it about you. That ain't how it works.

It's great to work through MB and implement the material such as avoiding love busters and meeting emotional needs. But, Zach, you are broken, and it's going to take more than these things to get you to a place of healing.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

You weren't a husband that was ever committed to your marriage. You didn't have years and years of happy marital history and then go wayward for a time. Your conduct and thinking have never been that of a married man.

There is absolutely no sane reason for your wife to stay with you, even if she does still love you. I would be greatly concerned if she made that decision any time this year. If she chooses to hang out and let you work and grow, maybe down the road. BUT NOT NOW OR ANYTIME SOON.

Perhaps she needs to do the same on herself. I don't know. From what you have told us here, probably. But that's not your business right now. YOU are your business. Deal with YOUR business.

Sexy, I havent bugged my wife, I sent her that 1 txt message after not talking to her for 3 days. I havent heard her voice in 5 days or so. I just wanted to tell her good luck! I didnt whine,complain or even bring up "us". I simply told her goodluck and she told me how bad she didnt like her job. Ive let my W go, I dont bother her or beg her or even really say a whole lot to her anymore.

Ive spoke with her twice in a week, and both times through txt messaging and no R talk. I see where your saying I say things about her and what shes doing. I always catch myself after I say it on here. Ive let her go, I understand she needs alone time to herself and thats what she wants, im giving it to her. My W still loves me, shes said it herself but shes not ready to forgive me, I dont blame her and I respect that decision.

"My W still loves me, shes said it herself but shes not ready to forgive me, I dont blame her and I respect that decision."

Hi Zach,

I want to talk a bit about forgiveness.

What would forgiveness look like to you?
If your wife was 'ready to forgive' what would she be saying/doing, or what would she stop saying/doing, that is different from what she is behaving like right now?

How long do you believe that forgiveness will take?

Do you think it is possible or sensible for your wife to have forgiven you by now?

Well Ive even talked with this to my counsler....


My wife says... "Zach im a christian and I forgive you but I cant forget."


But in my mind she really dont forgive what ive done, I dont blame her.


What does forgiveness look like to me? Thats a tough question, about the best thing I could say is... Give me another chance? Thats hard for me to answer


If she was ready to forgive in my opinion she would start doing things to help her forgive me like counsleing and books and such, spend time with me during the week and see how that goes?


What she would stop saying or doing? Well this week when I have spoke with her shes been real nice and carrys on a conversation so not much she can really change there. What she would stop doing? Possibly spend more time with me and not so much with her friend. Thats about all I can ask for

But I do not expect her to do any of that anytime soon IF she even does.

Hey, Zach...

What about you forgiving yourself...God's forgiveness?

It's a process...not an event. I sure looked at it like a one-time deal before MB.

Ever write that amends list?

LA

Ahh yes, most important, gods forgiveness.


The amedns list, I realized I never did it while I was looking over this thread again, I apologize. Im working on it tonight!

I actually smiled when I read this.

It's nice to see you being real.

I see some baby step progress since you first arrived, Zach. Don't give up. Keep plugging away. Genuine change isn't easy work and it takes time.

It's character-building.

LOL thanks Frozen didnt think you would react like that. I was having a bad day that day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Thanks for the support!

Zach...thanks for remembering the amends list.

As for being judged...

Would you consider you're half of every conversation you're present for? What others share has to be perceived by you. If you are prepared to hear they are judging you...then that will be your experience, won't it, even if they are not?

I lived this way for 43 years...not understanding my perception was as important as what others said. I had no idea I chose my perception...had my filter...hidden assumptions...stuff that got in the way of what the other person intended. I felt like my assumptions made me smart...I could leap to the end of what they were saying through assumption, being keen, mindreading.

Oh, boy. And I saw rejection everywhere...being defined, criticized...and I felt not good enough...even though I was working my tail off (assuming takes a lot of energy) with a ton of effort...still, not enough. I wasn't enough.

Tough way to live. Then someone shared I was powerful...that I chose how I perceived, believed, and my very thoughts. Whoa. Eliminating my DJs in took me asking for clarification or confirmation that I'd heard correctly...listen and repeat..."So I hear you saying you don't believe I'm really sorry. You hear entitlement, a pity party, self-absorption, is that correct?"

Truly going for clarity, not judgment. What a huge difference this made for me...and yes, I slip, Zach. We develop this defensive habit, live it as our reality, for years...retraining our brain takes time and practice...and then we experience our real power. We can check ourselves instead of strike back (a lot of times, no one's really hitting us)...and all that energy goes into the true connection we make, building our own self-respect and confidence. And we know ourselves more and more, build our trust in ourselves...slowly and surely.

Takes two new choices of belief...

One...strive first to understand, then be understood.

Second, choose to act, not react.

Reacting gives us the life experience that others control us...when they cannot, in reality. Because they say, we feel, therefore we do...then who is our master? In reality, we remain our master...in our experience...they do. Others become the cause, control and cure for us.

Where does that leave us? Way out of reality, that's where.

You may experience extremes a lot...ups and downs with very little middle ground...swinging back and forth, feeling powerless, out of control, and sometimes, useless and invisible. Because we're wiping ourselves out, aren't we?

God made us all with inherent power and limits...from his great respect for us...not admiration...pure love of creating us as truly separate beings from him...with the power to choose to believe in, have a relationship and love him...or not. Huge respect. Our power is in our choices...and we only control our own stuff. Our limit is right there...we can't control others or be controlled.

Yet we can have the opposite life experience, can't we?

Know your power, where it ends...that's where your responsibility ends as well. Then you'll understand how to honor, cherish, respect...others and yourself.

I'm still working on it, Zach. Learning together. Do not negate your steps because you aren't at the end of the journey...they matter. Change has no size...change is change, tiny or large. Two steps forward and three back remains change...and gives us three more steps of practice than we had before.

Be well. Don't break promises to yourself.

LA

Wow LA I miss your posts. Thank you.


The more I read it the more it makes sense to me.




God made us all with inherent power and limits...from his great respect for us...not admiration...pure love of creating us as truly separate beings from him...with the power to choose to believe in, have a relationship and love him...or not. Huge respect. Our power is in our choices...and we only control our own stuff. Our limit is right there...we can't control others or be controlled."


I love that line.

Wow just read through about 10 more pages of my thread and wow I see where you guys were saying how Manuplitave I was and how selfish and the self pity I had.

I can say im embarrassed I said those things. The past few weeks ive learned so much and came a long ways it seems. I guess looking back and realizing all the good advice you were giving me I was going off and doing what Zach thought and wanted. Now that ive taken you guys advice finally ive started truly changing and making a better person out of myself.

Good Morning!


Having a good day so far today!

Besides something I heard about my W's friend, but im not gonna let it bother me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How's everyone today?

What a boring day here at work!!

Good to know you see the difference now your intent makes...it's often a hidden thing...where you do and say, "I just wanted to make her smile" and resent when she doesn't...because you hid your true intent (its deeper than you thought) from your own self.

It's how we can think we're living one way and discover it's fantasy.

Getting clear lines to live by creates a new life experience for ourselves...I hope that's what you meant when you re-read your thread. Do more work...get the books...I highly recommend John Bradshaw's "Healing the shame that binds us"...and a lot more.

And remember, we get it and we lose it...and we lose it from not practicing our new beliefs...we slip into living again, reactively, from our feelings. Gives us more practice to get back to where we want to be...doesn't make us better persons...gives us a rockin' better life experience.

Building your own self-respect is one brick at a time...each brick is an action you take from owning your true intent, directly from your belief...and you are doing this now.

Previously, can you see yourself "managing" your emotions all the time? Trying to get them to abate, increase, change in some way? Choosing to get certain emotions or intensities rather than choosing your actions to hold yourself to your code?

When you work on the amends list, you'll begin to define your own code. I would enjoy very much if you would post what you discover.

LA

Yes LA I saw those things, I would go off of emotion and not actions. I would show my emotions and no do any actions.


Im ill about my W's friend right now, I found out her opinion on me but I cant change that.

Amends list in in progress, yes ill post it for ya <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Glad to see you are making those changes Zach01, you will be a much better person for it.

You have some great folks helping you here.

God Bless,

Love in Christ,
Miss M