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good advice..
bad advice
whose to say..

if people invest the time to read the site things that aren't marriage builders are pretty obvious...

will continue to not see how the name calling helps anything at all in this...
lowers the denominators on all sides if you ask me....

ARK

ark^^ #1966554 11/12/07 03:40 PM
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Ark - the problem is that in my experience, most people don't read anything here other than the forums. They don't invest the time unfortunately.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
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so that means it's OK to call them names...
AND
we should assume onus of their responsibility and protect them from bad advice...

illogical to me....

ARK

ark^^ #1966556 11/12/07 03:47 PM
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Quote
so that means it's OK to call them names...
AND
we should assume onus of their responsibility and protect them from bad advice...

illogical to me....

ARK

Thanks Ark. You're my buddy now.

ark^^ #1966557 11/12/07 03:49 PM
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Just wanted to add that BA has been posting on my thread and my H's, who just came here two weeks ago.

I respectfully asked that if BA wanted to continue to post to my thread, that she share her story so that I would know how infidelity has affected her life.

BAs response what that she would love to share her story, but not on the boards. BA asked for me to pass on my email and she would email me her story...or his...don't know if BA is male or female. I posted that my email is worth gold and I will not share it.

Can't imagine why someone who feels what they have to say is of value here, would refuse to share their story. It is from our stories that we can really help each other.


Happily married to HerPapaBear



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BA,

Why in the world would you want to post here without sharing your personal story about how infidelity has touched your life? It makes no sense.


Happily married to HerPapaBear



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It's illogical to say that my unwillingness to share my story has a direct corrolation to the value of my advice.

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Five words that give anyone control over the situation.

*** You are ignoring this user ***

I agree with whoever suggested BA is eating up this attention. I would highly recommend everyone follow their own advice and use their ignore feature.

LC





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BA-

Its actually highly logical to assume that your unwillingness to divulge your story indicates that you fear that telling your story will undermine the value of your advice.

Hence, you avoid the questions by attempting to deflect.

Answer the question...and let everyone else determine what value they place on your advice given your background and experience.

This isn't rocket science.

ark^^ #1966562 11/12/07 04:00 PM
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we should assume onus of their responsibility and protect them from bad advice...

illogical to me....

Well Ark, your post is illogical to me so I guess we're even.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
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Hello BA.

Let me first state where I agree with what I understand to be the thrust of a couple of your arguments :

* There is little tolerance in some quarters of opinions that do not align with MarrigeBuilders principles on these boards. It can look like totalitarianism.

* People who advise contrary to MB, particularly with some confidence or even arrogance can be jumped on hard, quite quickly by some board members.

That said, I think it may be useful to explain why this might be in my opinion. You are at liberty, of course, to print my opinion off and use it as hamster bedding, completely up to you.

Firstly while in a post-modern worldview everyone creates their own reality, and so every opinion is equally valid, in practicality , not all opinion or advice if of the same quality or likely good effect.

Dr Harley's MB constructs aren't his opinion, like my opinion of reality TV shows , or of vegetarian chilli. He is an acknowledged expert in the field of relationships, and particularly building marriages. He has a half century of empirically tested and annotated experience to draw from , not to mention all the academic sources competing and according that he has access to as a respected expert in this field.

Yet, if all this wisdom was inaccessible to hurting folks in the throes of infidelity, or not usable in their lives, his tenets would likely not be so strongly advocated on these boards.

It is that Dr H took this huge body of study and personal counselling experience and distilled that into a set of highly accessible books (and many of the concepts and resources available free of charge on this site)that even the emotionally crippled could apply and derive success from.

Most of the "barefoot doctors" on these boards are people who were once destroyed by infidelity or other marriage problems, and who applied Dr Harley's MB tenets into their own situation to great effect.

So in summary, the people who advise here have every reason to advocate MB principles not because they're one-eyed or paid by the Harleys, but because they truly believe that this is the best way for those afflicted by infidelity to proceed.

your quote :

Quote
Keep in mind, I used the word "might," NOT "will" or "chances are" or "likely." Might could mean 30%, 10%, 1% or even .00001% chance.

You (or Dr. Harley) used the words "Most affairs don't end a marriage," NOT "ALL affairs..." which means that some affairs might end up as marriages.

In conclusion, we both are right.

Is of course true, but does the tiny demonstrable chance of your advice working out make it the best advice to give a person ?

Let me put it another way - imagine ( God forbid!) you visited a two advisors to decide upon a cancer treatment :

One, a cancer specialist doctor advises " resection and six months of chemotherapy "
Another person , inexperienced and untaught says "just leave it, cancers can go away on their own".

Who gave the best advice, BA ? Because there are some few documented examples of cancers disappearing on their own, is that good advice when there is a PROVEN well indicated plan of action available ?

Even though the resection and chemotherapy course doesn't always work, is it REALLY equivalent advise to the well intentioned opinion of "best diagnoser" ?

Dr James Dobson says in "Love must be tough"

Quote
The fastest horse doesn't always win, but you should still stake your money on it".

On these boards Dr H's advice, along with compatible advice from other experts like Dr Dobson is what is deemed the " fastest horse".

We are not a bunch of folks who show up, declaring expertise in a subject and pontificating as happens on many internet forums. On these boards it is truly peoples LIVES and VERY SOULS that are at stake when we advise , and there is no place for vanity advising IMO.

So you see, BA, you show up here with an arrogant "sobriquet" offering advise that is quite clearly at odds with what many veteran posters KNOW to be most effective, claiming your opinion has parity with Dr H's half century of expert study.

There is CERTAINLY 1% indignation that "BA hasn't earned her wings how dare she post so confidently?" in the criticism you have received, but BA you are advising that which many of us KNOW is likely to make bad situations worse.

Who would you want advising your kids if they were in trouble : people well versed in a proven resolution, or people who have a strongly held opinion without the benefit of study or application ?

Well many of us feel very "parental" to the poor broken souls who show up here on a daily basis and it chafes us badly to see poor advice offered at people's most vulnerable and needful time.

You have been advised to study MB and Dr H's principles before you advise. That is GREAT advice IMO. If you want to advise here, nobody can stop you but surely you would not want to be responsible for bad situations getting worse by giving out uninformed opinion as advice ?

Or, speaking as candidly as only an internet stranger can, if you want to be queen bee of some forum somewhere and be held high as a smart person, despite you not really having more than "opinion" to support your case, find a board where the outcomes are less visceral and existential than this.

I have tried to explain here why you have wandered into "hostile territory" BA, if I can help to explain further, just ask.


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To my knowledge, Ark has not been the victim of abuse so he/she may not know how fragile a BS can be when they show up here. they most assuredly DO need protection from bad advice.

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I agree with whoever suggested BA is eating up this attention. I would highly recommend everyone follow their own advice and use their ignore feature.

Well yes, but ******advisor can do a lot of damage to a newbie before they work our she is a *****.

Last edited by Justuss; 11/13/07 08:00 AM.
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It's illogical to say that my unwillingness to share my story has a direct corrolation to the value of my advice.

Um, NO that is NOT illogical...If I went to a doctor and he/she refused to show me his/her diploma/credentials, it would be VERY logical for me to choose another doctor AND report he/she to the AMA...The transparency of others here is one of the things that makes this place such a Godsend...

All opinions are NOT equal BA-unfortunately newbies that are typically emotionally crippled when they arrive don't always realize that...

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />Bwwwwwaaaaaahhaaaaaahaaaahaaaaa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sorry folks,
but I was just reading down on the recovery board,
and came across a "new" poster going by the name ---2nd Best Advisor!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Simply cracked me up ....big time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Luckily I wasn't drinking anything or it would have been all over my computer and screen.

It was just soooooo funny that after reading over this thread,
that the next thread I read had this POSTER on it.

Funny Sh*T. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanx for the laugh guys!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Fooling people is serious business, but when you fool yourself it Becomes Fatal.

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we should assume onus of their responsibility and protect them from bad advice...

illogical to me....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well Ark, your post is illogical to me so I guess we're even.

BigK..

I do not think it is wrong to expect people who come here and want to work on marriagebuilders invest time in reading about the site...

that's all I am saying...

coming here and getting advice without reading...is a bad..bad..bad..thing to do..

and my point is only why does there have to name calling...

my only opinions on this...which is much broader than specific posters...

ARK

ark^^ #1966569 11/12/07 05:07 PM
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I understand your point Ark. But it is patently clear that a lot of newbies post here before they read anything. Very clear. Yes - it is a bad, bad thing.

Eventually, hopefully, newbies do read the material but until they get over the initial pain and shock, it is incumbent on more experienced posters to point out bad advice.

I see nothing wrong with calling a troll a troll.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
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Ark...

I can tell you why Mr. W and I have taken to calling BA "******Advisor"...BA's posts mostly instill FEAR in newcomers-exploits the great fear that is already upon them...FEAR does NOT come from God, but rather from THE EVIL ONE, which equals *****...It FITS to us-just calling it what it is...

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible..." Ephesians 5:11-14

Mrs. W

Last edited by Justuss; 11/13/07 08:02 AM.
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To me, it boils down to what quality do you want on this board? Do you value equality, or quality?

This isn't some random chat room. This is a board associated with Marriage Builders, a reflection of the work of qualified professionals. Can I see through the [censored] now? Yes, I have studied Harley's works. Could I have seen through it when I first got here? Maybe not.

I'm glad I got the reception and advice that I did, and I hope everyone gets that treatment, I think it is what is intended. To allow someone here that deliberately circumvents that is counterproductive and baffling to me.

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I agree with whoever suggested BA is eating up this attention. I would highly recommend everyone follow their own advice and use their ignore feature.

Well yes, but ****** advisor can do a lot of damage to a newbie before they work our she is a troll.

OK, this I can agree with so why not continue to make recommendations to the person BA is giving bad advice to and ignore BA? IOW, if no one responds directly to BA maybe she will get tired of being ignored, of course that will be after changing names 5 times.

To me it appears some are trying to educate someone who has no desire to listen. Doesn't it make you want to just bang your head against the wall? Why bother?

Stick with educated the BS and let the rest go. It's like dealing with one of those kids who is always doing naughty things, any attention is better than no attention so they stir up trouble just to be noticed.

I can see the pros standing in and helping/protecting the newbies but why keep engaging BA when they aren't here for the right reasons anyway, or at least it appears to be that way?

LC

Last edited by Justuss; 11/13/07 08:03 AM.
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