His cruelty is just too much. Do they do it to be mean or why?

Are they hurting so bad they need you to hurt along with them.

SG

I think if there are no children, it lessens the chances. If the marriage was absolutely HORRIBLE, it doesn't look good. If it is a short marriage, less than a couple years, it increases the odds for divorce. Other than that, the affair usually ends.

I read on the OW board - not a good place for newbies, and those going through this, and the affair almost always ends there too. The "soulmate" OW after a time, gets thrown under the bus. That happens even when the WS lives with the OW for a couple of years. It is AMAZING that anyone has an affair.

The GREATEST danger to the marriage is the betrayed spouse. Often they give up, get tired of the fight, and are DONE. That is what happened to me.

Hi skinsgal-

I hope you are enjoying the crisp November weather and the wonderful moon we have tonight.

I know how you are feeling. I've been there. The greatest thing I learned in all this is what David learned when God said to him "Be still and know that I am God."(Ps.46:10) The way my IC put it was this: Sometimes you just have to be in the pain, and let God be God in that pain.

I also have learned that it is during these painful times, when there are tears and hurt that "...those who suffer He delivers in their suffering, He speak to them in their affliction." (Job 36:15) I am always amazed how God uses my tears to move me through some phase of letting go and letting Him touch some part of my wounded soul.

It's hard during this time of celebration and tradition.

Take heart that your faith does make a difference. "[She] who fears the Lord has a secure fortress, and for [her] children it will be a strong fortress." Prov 14:26.

My kids are upstairs right now starting a new "tradition"-a Die Hard marathon-all four! It's so nice to have them all here-with a spare (friend)-and hear them laughing.

Happy Thanksgiving my NW friend.

Believer,

Well, I have been with him for over 29 years. Our marriage had struggles, but he has done the typical and rewritten it. I wouldn't say it was HORRIBLE, but yes we had struggles. I can't IMAGINE, giving up and wanting to be divorced.

I love my H so deeply and we have shared and gone through so much. It just hurts that he can be so cruel and not say that he is sorry for any pain he is causing.

Johnstwin - actually I am in Ca with my H's sister's family. We are having Thanksgiving here. It's doing something different than being at home and creating the traditions that were so important to me.

WH's last words to me were "just making the stuffing" which are his family's recipe. He knows how that would kill me. Why do they do what they do to hurt us. How can he just be away from his family and be ok with that. We really need to dissect the mind of the WH and see what is in there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for G-ds words. I really need that comfort right now. For the first time in a long time I want to drink or use the pain away.

How are you doing?

SG

skinsgal-

Glad you are making new traditions. I guess the pre-Thanksgiving Bruce Willis fest is a new one here.

I am doing fine. I enjoyed a brisk walk in the moonlight with my dog tonight and will be going to my twin brother's house in Snoqualmie tomorrow. He has a view of Mt. Si from his living room.

I don't think it's possible to dissect the WS's mind-alien brains are not like ours. I think it is just the height of their entitlement that makes them do these things. They don't think about the pain they are causing anyone because they don't think about anyone but themselves!

Hang in there-God is with you. Remember when Elijah needed comfort- God sent an angel to make him a meal and then spoke to him in a quiet voice. I will pray that the voice of God will speak to you and comfort you. It wouldn't hurt if an angel showed up with a cake either! I vote for chocolate <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What you need to realize is that the WS completely blanks out any thoughts of the BS during the affair.

My ex and I raised 8 kids together, 4 of his, 2 of his stepkids, and my 2. Things were not perfect. In fact it was DIFFICULT. But we got through it fine, and when the kids were out of the home, and we finally would have an easier life, he had an affair.

I was non-existent to him during the affair. When the affair ended (2 weeks after our divorce) and he got through withdrawal, his actions and attitude toward me turned on a dime.

skinsgal-

Not only was I non-existent to my XH during his PA (even though I was dealing with cancer and chemo) so were our kids who were dealing with my treatment and their dad's abandonment. Total selfish entitlement.

Believer and Johnstwin,

Thank you for talking to me. It helps to not feel so alone. I guess the consolation through this is his behavior is typical WH behavior, cruel, alien and downright selfish entitlement.

I'm sorry you both felt this pain. I think if I could take away peoples pain I would, but then I would be right back where I am from the beginning. Trying to fix someone's journey.

Just when I had given up hope or was totally hurt again, H appeared for one split second to say that he knew my stuffing would be better than his. So, being in Plan A, I asked him if he would like me to bring some home. He answered, if it wasn't too much trouble. It was only a second, but my H still exists. He just is so buried deep down inside.

Believer, I don't know if I asked, but you didn't suffer any damage from the fire did you?

Johnstwin, I can't even imagine that pain and hurt you must have felt going through this A stuff, but then to have the medical challenges. It's beyond my belief. Tell me how you got through. Where are you with you WH today?

I guess Believer, what your words of wisdom are is to somehow grasp completely that this is just who they are today, it's not directed at me, but who they have become and that once the A ends (and in your words ALL DO), my H will come home or at least reappear.

I am reading this book on forgiveness. Where are you two at this point in your lives?

SG

Believer and Johnstwin..some of God's angels out there for you...don't think of yourself as being SELFISH..you are WORTHY...ASK and you will RECEIVE..these are your BLESSINGS...

HAVE FAITH, SG..YOU ARE A WOMAN OF FAITH...you say you've read my thread..that's what pulled me through..I turned to HIM...and knew that HE was working it out for ME...one way or the other...

You come across as such a WONDERFUL PERSON....really...YOU WILL BE BLESSED..Have Faith in that...

Mimi,

I am a woman of faith, and a faith that I am developing stronger and stronger each day. The single most precious thing in my life today is the growing relationship with my G-d. He believes in me to walk through this the woman he always believed me to become and I won't let him down.

I thank you for your kind words.

I wish you the warmest and happiest of Thanksgivings. I have thought about what you said in making new memories. I just finished my 8th step and am in the process of doing my 9th step, which is making direct amends. For my children, my direct amends is what my sponsor calls Living Amends. Which is doing as I go along.

My older son and I went to the family cabin today. I feel like I am being directed to show my children how to live forgiveness and let G-ds light in. I have this sense that this is one major hurdle I must cross to be blessed with my H.

I have made up over 50 pages of your thread. I think I am into June of 03. I haven't had a chance to read them yet, but what I noticed was your desparation at first and then something happened and you got it.

What G-d has in store for me, I don't know. But I do know that your wisdom helps me know that I am not alone and what I am thinking, feeling and experiencing is just like everyone else. IT's when I get caught up in the "this is different", I get scared and freak out.

Just hit me, ok? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And remind me that I need to trust him. It's my only chance and more importantly it's the only way.

Barbara

Oh and who better to have on my side that HIM and knowing he is working it out for me.

I am one lucky woman.

SG

Hi SG-

I got caught up with the Die Hard-a-thon last night and just read your posts. I wanted to say that I am impressed that you are still working your steps even during this time.

You asked me what got me through it all? Honestly, I can only say it was God. He, in His sovereignty, knew these things would happen. He didn't "make" them happen-I know that. But I believe He knows every possible outcome of every possible choice we humans can make in our cursed free will. He also knows the things that will happen to us because we live in a fallen world (like cancer). Because of this, He prepared me by having me teach AP English for 8 years, with a special emphasis on the book of Job (ancient poetry that is alluded to in other literature later on....). Boy did that book take on a special significance for me. When I was diagnosed 5 weeks after my XH left us, I was standing outside late at night and asked God "why". That's when the words He said to Job spoke to my heart. "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades, can you loose the cords of Orion?" and I realized that God, who glances all of eternity in a second-had my circumstances in His hands.

Then there was chemo-yep, chemotherapy helped me. It forced me to be still, to be unable to rely on my own physical energy or my thinking. Towards the last few months, I had a small window of time each day where I was able to focus, and I used that to read books that nourished me, taught me a deeper understanding of faith and prayer, and I journaled.

God also sent my DD25 home during this time-roommate issues and then a chronic back injury. She was on medical leave for that during my chemo treatments. We watched a lot of What Not To Wear.

And having people pray for me. I think I would have noticed if people weren't praying for me. I am sure that is what got me through. My mom would say I was strong, but it never felt that way. I felt like I was just clinging to God's hand while walking in the dark on a rocky path.

Where am I with my XH now? Well, after he D'd me, he unintentionally exposed his PA that had started about the 2nd month of my chemo-which explained a lot about his behavior during that time. It ended due to her family's reaction.

He is living by himself in Gold Bar (yes, Gold Bar) with his dog and motorcycle and working in Bellevue. He comes by now and then to do things with the boys (DS15 and DS19). I have forgiven him but I don't know if he has yet forgiven himself. He was somewhat of a conflict avoider when we were married, now he is completely C/A about anything real.

As my DS19 said "I don't feel like I have a dad anymore. He's more of a buddy. I mean, we talk without really talking about anything- just bs like how school is going and motorcycles and such."

So, I pray for him. I pray for his relationship with our kids and that he will find his way back to God. He is God's prodigal, not mine.

One thing I keep in mind is the God who created the heavens and the earth, cares enough about us to be interested in our every thought (Ps 139). He has plans for us to give us "hope and a future" (Jer 29:11) as we continue to trust in Him.

Wow, and that was the short version! Sorry if this rambled too much.

TJ - I missed the fires, but everything in my area is okay. I was up in Johnstwin's area. In fact, I was thinking about you, Johnstwin when we were driving through. My sis takes horseback riding lessons in Mt. Vernon.

Hi believer-where does your sister take lessons?

My son takes lessons at Langs' Horse and Pony Farm in Mt. Vernon and is learning gaming (pole bending and barrel racing) for 4H this summer. He volunteered there with kids' camps this past summer and hopes to work there after he turns 16.

Did you ever get up to Little Mountain Park? Beautiful views of the valley and San Juans from there.

Enough of the TJ.

SG-I'm thinking of you and praying for you today.
BTW, years ago I was the pool manager at the JCC (before DS19 was born).

Hope you are having great weather in Calif. You are missing wonderful sunshine in the PNW. You know how rare that can be. Hopefully we won't have snow this Thanksgiving!

She takes lessons at Gunderson barn. It's a real nice place. One of the times we were there they were in the midst of a party for a horse that they donated to a vaulting team. They had cake and the whole works.

As Johnstwin states:



This is a major part of the CHANGE you notice in me as you read my story, SG. I began to TRUST and have FAITH in HIM. I came to think that it was all happening for a reason. Could the reason be to get to the life that we are living now? Could the reason be for me to become the person that I am now? I'm THANKFUL for who I am today. I've come to think that it is all part of GOD'S PLAN for me.

Also, earlier on, as is true for YOU now, I was going through WITHDRAWAL. This is the same WITHDRAWAL the WS experiences after NO CONTACT with the OW. Withdrawal can last 3 to 6 months during which you are LONGING for your WH. Oops, I forgot. You probably comprehend the process of WITHDRAWAL better than I do.

JT,

I hear how awesome the weather is up there. I am glad that you are able to enjoy the weather. I am luckily enjoying this weather. I was praying for you as well. I had for the most part a good day. It was awesome being with my family actually H's sisters family. I just know G-d won't let me become divorced because I am so much a part of this family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, my sister in law did a really good job of keeping me entertained when she saw the tears creeping up. Her friend made a magnificent challah that really made me feel special and reinforce how much I love this family and my neices etc.

Believer - I am so glad you didn't have any damage. I lived in the hills of Oakland when they caught fire. We didn't live close to it, but I know the wreckage and heartache and wouldn't want you to have suffered that.

Mimi,

I think I have that down in my head, but maybe where it hasn't gotten is into my heart. Maybe I need to start praying for that. One of my sponsors told me so along ago, the universe is unfolding exactly as it should in spite of whether we like it or not. Or nothing, absolutely nothing happens in G-ds world by mistake.

I hadn't even thought of missing my H as a withdrawal. Maybe G-d is having me experience it so I will be more understanding of my H when he goes through his <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. When I got sober all those years, I don't remember what it was like at all or if I experienced withdrawals or not. The only drag, is I am going on over 6 months and the withdrawals are still getting the best of me, albeit a little better.

Have I thanked you for checking in and still talking to me, I really NEED you. Not because I think you can fix me, but in a way, I feel like I am your student and when I learn as you did I can carry on your tradition and help someone like me right now. Does that make sense?

JT,
Don't be impressed about working the steps. That was G-ds plan all along. I never worked the steps when I got sober and G-d needed me to clean out my soul and be able to face him and learn to become the woman he envisions for me. It was the only way. If I wasn't working the steps and addressing my addictions and learning new behaviors I would be DEAD. And I don't want to minimize how serious this is to my recovery.

Can I ask a favor, I find a lot of comfort from your psalms and readings from the bible. If you could keep them coming I would really appreciate it.

I hope you all had a nice holiday. I am grateful to G-d that you are in my life and especially you Smartiepants and Jamesus.

Warmly,
SG

Just like for the WS, WITHDRAWAL starts all over again with ANY TYPE OF CONTACT..Greeting cards (those got my H back into the A once), Emails, phone calls are included...that's why eventually PLAN B will allow some healing and gaining of your strength...

You know..you can't even take one little sip....

SG-

I am impressed that you are continuing to work the steps even in this storm. My dad has worked with alcoholics for a long time, and many don't get as far as you have.

It always amazes me how God knows what we need when we need it. He truly is a loving Father.

As I was walking with my dog this a.m. Ps.121 came to mind. I was next to the Skagit River with Cultuss Mountain to the east. Last night the moon was bright enough to see its outline and Orion was right above.

I lift my eyes to the mountains-
where does my help come from?
My help comes from the Lord,
the Maker of heave and earth.

He will not let your foot slip-
He who watches over you will not slumber,
indeed, He who Watches over Israel
will neither slumber nor sleep.

The Lord watches over you-
the Lord is your shade at your right hand;
the sun will not harm you by day,
nor the moon by night.

The Lord will keep you from all harm-
He will watch over your life;
the Lord will watch your coming and going
both now and forevermore.

Blessings to you!

JT,

Thank you. I am having a horrible day. I miss my husband so much today. I am in that dark place where I think that if I would just die or go away, then the pain will stop and my H will step up to the plate and take care of the kids. They need HIM so much. They need my H.

As for my step work, it's G-d giving me the courage and strength to keep going. Not me. If it were up to me, I would end the pain today. I'm so tired of the fight, of the lonliness, of seeing my children hurt from the pain of what their dad is doing.

And yet, with your psalm, and from Isaih tonight (where he divulges he has a plan, he designed it, he will finish it)that I read, I am feeling stronger. I need to feel G-d tonight, I need his comfort and he love for me. I feel so alone inside and the darkness is overwhelming.

I have a long drive home tomorrow and will keep my focus of living for G-d and his glory. Because he is my shield, my shadow, my strength.

Mimi,

How long were you in Plan B and how did you know you were ready. And I started to read that Back postings. I can't handle his crap and so I don't know how it starts, but I hope you know how much I NEED you. I'm SCARED. I intuitively know that FAITH and fear can't exist in the same body, and I'm trying, but the loneliness, the missing of his touch, his voice talking to me.

How did you get through it?

SG