Kind of hard to really say how long we have been in recovery. Most of my story is in "should i let the past stay in the past?" My H got deathly ill right after he came back home after leaving me to stay with the OW. He was away from work for 4 and 1/2 months, when he returned to work the OW still worked there which was in June 2007. She quit there (due to exposure by FWH to their HR department) at the end of July 2007. OW contacted FWH mid August 2007. NC since (that i am aware of).

Another thing on this so called bet is that it was made 3 months ago. He just happened to be working on another job where this guy and his crew were and when he saw him he went and got the bottle of wine. During the A I had to stop him from leaving one night from going to kick the crap out of this same guy because he was being "taking advantage of the OW because she was a female".

When i told him that was why it bothered me (because during the A I felt he was jealous of this guy because he was seeing the OW too) for him to buy a bottle of wine for this particular person because it was a trigger for me. He just got really upset with me and said "well i am sorry again like always i can't do anything right".

And yes we both agreed that SF was PART of the reason for the A not all but PART. And i do not really know how to set boundaries i guess. I mean what do i say. I tell him that when he does not call and let me know when he is going to be late that i worry and wonder. I also tell him that in order to build back the trust that he so desparately wants he needs to try to tell me when he will be home every day (since I never know due to the nature of his job) and if he is not going to be to call me and let me know. Like I said sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't.

Also another one of the little things that he was doing that bothered me was when he received a work call while he was home he would go outside or away from where i was. I asked him why he needed to leave the room and his response was just well i will saty in here from now on i just did not think you and the kids would want to hear my work stuff.

It is probably all innocent but since the A I feel he needs to be more understanding and think about things like that but it does not seem that he does and when i point it out I am just "picking on him".

I agree with LA. I see you getting upset and focusing on the symptoms of what is really upsetting you, rather than the issue itself.

Regarding the wine...if it bothered you, you are perfectly within your rights to just state that you felt uncomfortable with it. There doesn't need to be an argument over whether he was wrong to do it or you are wrong to feel that way about it. It's irrelevant. The point is that it bothered you.

Well that is my point. When I tell him that it bothered me than he gets mad at me and that is what starts the argument.

I always try to just state how it makes me feel when he does certain things but then i just get that "he can never do anything right" speech and i feel like it is thrown right back in my face.

Ooops. Part of the reason for the affair was his EN for SF, and now he isn't interested? Red flag there.

I understand exactly what you're saying and I have dealt with the very same issue.

Part of the problem was that I was seeking validation. Validation is NICE...but it isn't a requirement and my pushing for validation and focusing on only that was a big stumbling block.

So you state how you feel about something.

He invalidates.

And then next thing you know, HE is the victim, right?

Try this:

You: I feel really uncomfortable about <fill in the blank>

and then STOP...you don't have to explain yourself. The more you try to explain yourself in an attempt to have your feelings validated, the less likely it becomes that you will receive it.

So let's try again...

You: I feel really uncomfortable about <fill in the blank>. I would like to find another way to handle this for next time.

Him: Why does it make you uncomfortable? (See the door to invalidation opening here?)

CLOSE IT!

You: Well, I just do. Can we find another way to deal with this in the future? I don't want you to do something you are uncomfortable with, but I don't want to feel uncomfortable either. Can we talk about some different ways to approach this so that neither of us will feel uncomfortable?

And from there you can brainstorm solutions.

Because this is completely a POJA issue.

In this particular incident I did not have a say so in any of it. I knew nothing about the bet made three months earlier. I knew nothing about buying the wine. I knew nothing about my H even working with this particualr crew again until AFTER it had all occured.

And my exact words were "I thought you did not even like this guy and you are buying a bottle of wine when you are the one that WON the bet. It really bothers me that you bought a bottle of wine for him because he is probably still seeing the OW."

His exact reponse was "Well here it is again I did not even ask him if he was still seeing the OW and of course I am wrong AGAIN. I can not ever do anything right I do not know why i bother trying." and he walked away all mad and was grouchy and short with me for the rest of the entire weekend..

The rest of the weekend? That seems like an overreaction to me.

I read far too many stories about a WS either being stupid, or pretending to be just stupid enough to be clueless about something like buying a bottle of wine for OW's boyfriend.

So ask yourself: Is he really a dunce, or is he trying to act dumb enough to get away with it?

Well i can say that he did mention that he thought i may be upset by it. He did not really say why he thought i would be upset just that he thought i would be.

I understand that, but this could be a good opportunity to POJA the way you guys handle issues like this to avoid bad feelings in the future.


Don't take the DJ route. It's pointless to try to guess his motives because they will be, at best, a guess.

At worst, they will cause you to have bad feelings towards him based on a judgment you've made about him that may or not even be true.

Avoid guessing motivation and stick to dealing with how to resolve the issue.



And you can choose to respond (rather than react and escalate the problem) by saying "I'd like to talk about this and find a way to deal with something like this in the future so that neither of us have bad feelings about this again."

If that is something you are willing to do, I have some tips for you on how to go about it.

Quite frankly (and i know this is selfish of me) i am not sure i want to keep trying if he can not even acknoledge my feelings on something. I just want him to take some of the actions for making things better not always me.

He is the one who had the A why am i the one doing all the work?

So, he thought about the fact that it might upset you, bought it anyway, then gets his panties in a wad when you react the way he thought you might?

Yes, you definitely have a right to be upset in my opinion.

I can understand feeling that way.

The truth is that you DON'T have to do anything at all.

What is it that you REALLY want (dig deep here)?

What i really want is for him to think about things that he does or does not do.

I have in our M always said to myself "Would i be upset if my H did this or said this or whatever?" If my answer is yes than i do not do it or say it.

Do you really believe that he would not have even had a thought that buying a bottle of wine for the OW BF would be a bad idea?

He has never really drank wine in the 25 years we have been together. Right before his birthday he mentioned something about how he had treid a particular wine and liked it. So for his birthday (October 13) i bought him some of that wine, made him a nice dinner, (the kids were all at work), had candles the whole works (I even drank some of the wine with him and i normally do not drink). It was a very nice evening. Since that night he has mentioned several times how much he really likd that wine and has drank several others in the past and would like to try another flavor and keeps asking me what flavors i have bought him.

His birthday was the one and only time i have ever bought wine for him or drank wine with him in 25 years. So i once again, because i do not know, assume that he and the OW must have drank wine because i know that she is a big drinker and so is he and that was something that he told me during the A is that we do not have anything in common but they (him and the OW) do because of drinking together.

So i know it just seems like a bottle of wine but it is everything that goes with that bottle of wine that bothers me.

And i try really hard to not get upset over things like that and when i do i try to just tell him how it makes me feel. I try to use i statements but he usually gets defensive and then i just clam up and do not talk about it anymore becasue i have hurt his feelings.

I put my feelings aside and try to just believe what he is telling me but since he lied to me so much during the A it is hard to just take him at his word.

How do you set boundaries and enforce them for something like this?

The first step is to gain a full understanding of property lines (boundaries), meaning which things are on someone else's property and which things are on your property.

I do not understand. I know i have my feelings and he has his and i can not change his feelings but how can you change your own feelings. They are just that feelings. And why should i have to change my feelings if that is indeed what you are trying to say.

That isn't what I'm trying to say at all.

In fact, I think your feelings are completely appropriate. The whole wine thing would have upset me too.

What I am trying to say is that I see you trying to approach a solution to this problem by stepping on to HIS property.


That is not a very accomplishable goal because it isn't something that is within your control.



Uh huh. It would bother me too.



Why would you try really hard not to get upset about things that bother you?

Because you have hurt his feelings???

His feelings are hurt because he did something that hurt you? Does that seem logical to you?

And when that happens, you respond with...



And mission accomplished...he wins and you lose.

Well how do i stop the vicious cycle then. I feel it is important to tell him my feelings. It just seems that when i do tell him my feelings then he gets defensive.

I try to tell him that is not my intent I am not trying to hurt his feelings i just want him to know how what he done or said made me feel so that maybe he will think about it more the next time.

He was even going to leave this weekend because he said he is tired of making me miserable and i would be better off without him. IMO that is his way of trying to turn it back on me.

I just do not know what to do anymore. I guess our M has always been like this but since the A i just do not know if i am willing to keep it up. I feel like it is some how my fault that he is upset when i just stated my feelings.

He doesn't sound very "repentant". Since he had the A, he needs to help you feel more comfortable about issues like this. He is making no efforts to do so.

I can see why you'd be frustrated.

I truly believe he is sorry for what the A and we really have come a long way in determining the 'why' of the A.

I am still having issues with him discussing the A with me but that is starting to get better (not as fast as i would like but i have to start somewhere).

The biggest issue is his TRANSPARENCY and his thinking that he can act the sameas pre A. He lost the trust to be able to act the same as pre A in my book. He should call me if he is going to be one minute later than he originally planned. And he should tell me the night before or as soon as he knows if he has to go into work early and things like that.

If something upsets me even if it is something that hurts him he should at least acknowledge that i am upset not just throw it back in my face like he is the victim in all of this. I try to see that he his hurt in this too. I try to feel his pain even though mine is unbearable sometimes.